General Discussion

Taverner

(55,476 posts) Sat Dec 29, 2012, 02:24 PM Dec 2012

142

Why did I do such a 180 on guns? [View all]

Last edited Sun Dec 30, 2012, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I used to support gun rights.

I used to think everyone had a right to bear, and in my case, to NOT bear arms.

I have never owned a gun and I never will

Then the killings stated

One after another

It got so bad, reporters couldn't finish up one story about a massacre before they had to start reporting on the next

Then I said enough

I did research

I read studies on both sides

Guess what: the gun lobby is lying to you

Their studies are a joke

Selective sampling, leading questions - just all around bad research

The anti gun studies, many in which the lead researcher started out pro gun, were done correctly

And they always showed what should have been painfully obvious

Guns = murder

Every time

Any other kind of talk is weasel wording

I felt lied to. Deceived. Knowingly given misinformation.

Being lied to is something I don't take very lightly

Chances are you don't either

They are lying to you

12/30: This thread, so far, has shown the desperation of the gun supporters.

Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?

233 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why did I do such a 180 on guns? [View all] Taverner Dec 2012 OP

people kill people but riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #1

And, That's the main reason gun culture is so attracted to them. Hoyt Dec 2012 #8

I'm going to completely level with you. Flatulo Dec 2012 #216

That's a pretty high percentage, although I think percentage is higher. Hoyt Dec 2012 #217

Frankly, I think a lot of them are buying weapons out of defiance, and not necessarily out of Flatulo Dec 2012 #218

Since damn near all of them are white yahoos, I hope the end up eating those guns. Hoyt Dec 2012 #219

That would be pretty funny, especially since I hear the AR-15s have been run up to $5k. nt Flatulo Dec 2012 #221

Because they're WHITE or because they're yahoos? Bake Dec 2012 #225

I read that the body of the youngest victim had 11 gun shot wounds. CrispyQ Dec 2012 #165

Too much to bear vankuria Dec 2012 #171

Me too. CrispyQ Dec 2012 #174

That one report sent me into such a depression. I wish there were a hell so that Lanza and his Flatulo Dec 2012 #211

Guns *encourage* killing. Kablooie Dec 2012 #190

You say, "the gun lobby is lying to you." Not to me. They, whoever they are, don't even contact me. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #2

you get a paycheck, don't you? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #6

the biggest piece of BS there farminator3000 Dec 2012 #9

NYC is having its lowest murder rate this year Lucky Luciano Dec 2012 #23

wonder why? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #29

Take a look at El Paso, TX. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #66

don't take a look at el paso farminator3000 Dec 2012 #90

Interesting take on El Paso in this article discussing how Lucky Luciano Dec 2012 #132

Compare population October Dec 2012 #191

When one list a rate, population is automatically taken into consideration. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #201

I have lived in El Paso itsrobert Dec 2012 #204

I took Post # 23s statement for NYC population. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #213

Nothing that you are saying has anything to do with what I've said. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #50

you said this- farminator3000 Dec 2012 #93

Are you nuts? Are you saying that someone by the name of "ted nugent" is a lobbyists? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #101

he's ON THE BOARD OF THE NRA FOR GOD'S SAKE farminator3000 Dec 2012 #112

i apologize in advance if you are a respectable lady, but, you asked farminator3000 Dec 2012 #114

I knew Nugent was a repulsive human being Lordquinton Dec 2012 #195

you are insulting human beings by giving him that status! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #205

I agree, In SC the crime rate was climbing oldbanjo Dec 2012 #170

the gun lobby talking points are all over DU every damn day Skittles Dec 2012 #196

Looks like you answered your own question. Rex Dec 2012 #3

Guns don't equal murder every time... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #4

right, target shooting, whatever farminator3000 Dec 2012 #7

So are you claiming that 50% of guns have been used for murder? Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #15

nope. that is a number, i'll give you that. 50% is more like the number of illegal guns going around farminator3000 Dec 2012 #20

A high percentage of those murders are a direct result of our failed War on Drugs. ... spin Dec 2012 #124

so what? who said anything about drugs? they don't shoot each other with drugs..spin off! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #133

Pass a law banning and confiscating all firearms in our nation and watch what will happen. ... spin Dec 2012 #150

nobody said TAKE ALL THE GUNS AWAY. so TAKE YOURSELF AWAY farminator3000 Dec 2012 #156

Many people here on DU have suggested that in recent days. ... spin Dec 2012 #182

many people here on DU don't wanna hear your nonsense farminator3000 Dec 2012 #227

Happy new year to you. ... spin Jan 2013 #230

you too, you seem cool! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #231

Thanks. (n/t) spin Jan 2013 #233

Self defense is NOT murder. Bake Dec 2012 #226

Did you get paid to sign up Control-Z Dec 2012 #14

Got it... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #16

You have 58 posts, cowboy. Control-Z Dec 2012 #32

Every plant the NRA/Gungeon billh58 Dec 2012 #36

Seriously. Control-Z Dec 2012 #51

a nickel? that much? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #98

Most of them never make it billh58 Dec 2012 #99

How about this, Slick? billh58 Dec 2012 #33

Take a deep breath, count to 10... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #34

Yeah, I will step outside for a moment because billh58 Dec 2012 #35

Members who joined DU right after Newtown Robb Dec 2012 #40

Seems to be the hot topic of the moment... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #42

because its a royal pain in the @ss farminator3000 Dec 2012 #111

Indeed. Robb Dec 2012 #160

So Democrats who happen to differ on this one issue are completely unwelcome? anchovy Dec 2012 #135

Aw. Robb Dec 2012 #179

Again, priceless. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #37

you should have called yourself dizzy puppet... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #102

woo hoo! are you typing that or just yelling into your phone?!?!? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #100

I don't believe you did a 180 at all slackmaster Dec 2012 #5

Read through my posts if you want... Taverner Dec 2012 #10

Have you changed your mind on vets? XRubicon Dec 2012 #12

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #53

I thought you said you don't support the troops? XRubicon Dec 2012 #77

How many sock puppets do you have? No, supporting the troops means supporting what they do Taverner Dec 2012 #78

Do you get off on stalking me? Taverner Dec 2012 #81

I'm still not against guns as a whole, but I am against Cleita Dec 2012 #11

Guns = Murder??? Every time ??? aikoaiko Dec 2012 #13

Guns have one purpose. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #18

Not all killing is murder. Let's not conflate terms. aikoaiko Dec 2012 #28

Weasel wording, as the OP suggested. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #41

Good post. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #45

I've made intruders run, twice Taverner Dec 2012 #54

Good on ya! Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #60

Ever see the 30 Rock where Liz dresses like a crazy homeless lady so everyone leaves her alone? Taverner Dec 2012 #63

"... But I do think most burglars want no part of a confrontation, armed or otherwise." Flatulo Dec 2012 #72

Nope. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #82

Yeah, that's the optimal outcome. Still, not one that I ever relish having to deal with. nt Flatulo Dec 2012 #89

hi darkangel!!! ret5hd Dec 2012 #76

Well done, but not all of us are able to fight off intruders. Flatulo Dec 2012 #62

Thing is, neither I nor any others are calling for a complete gun ban Taverner Dec 2012 #64

Then I misread your OP and apologize. Flatulo Dec 2012 #68

Strange that I have enjoyed shooting my .22 cal semi-auto target pistols and ... spin Dec 2012 #106

You were lucky. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #71

Rounds from handguns are not always lethal. .... spin Dec 2012 #103

Yes, that is what I have heard. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #123

Meh, still wouldn't want to spend my Saturday nite having a 9mm Black Talon picked out of my spine. Flatulo Dec 2012 #138

That sums up why I hope I NEVER have to use a firearm for self defense. ... spin Dec 2012 #177

This should be a thread of its own. Heidi Dec 2012 #206

Your welcome. I also happen to believe that the statistics do not accurately reflect how often Flatulo Dec 2012 #209

This message was self-deleted by its author Heidi Dec 2012 #212

Bravo on the marksmanship training, especially considering the circumstances under which you Flatulo Dec 2012 #215

The sole reason for the existence of guns is truely as you say... sanatanadharma Dec 2012 #30

Bullseye target shooting is far different than defensive shooting ... spin Dec 2012 #115

You can use guns for target shooting Lordquinton Dec 2012 #197

If that killing is in the cause of self- defense, then it is both legally and morally justified. Flatulo Dec 2012 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author Flatulo Dec 2012 #46

Guns have one purpose NickB79 Dec 2012 #127

Target shooting is fun, but too expensive unless your shooting .22 cal, or doing your own reloads. Flatulo Dec 2012 #139

when (or if) the upset over massacre(s) dies down here Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #75

People who support the RKBA are devastated by the massacre, too. aikoaiko Dec 2012 #95

Sorry but the pattern has been repeated too often for me to buy that. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #96

Sure some people, including me, are concerned about maintaining a civil liberty even as... aikoaiko Dec 2012 #148

NRA doesn't care about the 2nd amendment LynneSin Dec 2012 #17

It's a 1-sentence amendment and they have managed to convince... Deep13 Dec 2012 #80

I'd read some arguments that whenever the Framers used "the People" in either the body Flatulo Dec 2012 #91

Get a clue bongbong Dec 2012 #119

But Hamitlon wrote in Federalist #28... Flatulo Dec 2012 #130

LOL bongbong Dec 2012 #185

The current SCOTUS has ruled that the 2A is both an individual right as well as Flatulo Dec 2012 #187

Right wing fucks infesting DU bongbong Dec 2012 #220

'Scuse me? That's not a very nice thing to say. Flatulo Dec 2012 #222

Not directed at you bongbong Dec 2012 #223

But surely you realize that President Obama has acknowledged that the 2A Flatulo Dec 2012 #224

Like where else in the original Constitution or BOR? nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #158

Well sir, right in the 1A... Flatulo Dec 2012 #173

I figured you'ld point to the 4th. Deep13 Dec 2012 #188

This message was self-deleted by its author Flatulo Dec 2012 #192

Respectfully disagree with this. Flatulo Dec 2012 #210

I strongly disagree about the relative merits of the respective research. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #19

research this farminator3000 Dec 2012 #22

Not telling me a thing I don't already know. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #24

BS post a link to some anti gun control thing that isn't a complete crock. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #26

This hasn't been normalized to population size, so it's deceptive. Flatulo Dec 2012 #49

normalize this farminator3000 Dec 2012 #84

Sorry, I missed that. Sloppy on my part. Flatulo Dec 2012 #88

s'ok, flats.. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #97

Supposedly Clinton's community policing efforts contributed meaningfully to the drop Flatulo Dec 2012 #129

I also wonder about the combination of our high demand and punitive penalties for drug use. Flatulo Dec 2012 #134

e�pis�te�mol�o�gy MY ASS. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #25

Priceless. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #27

awesome! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #31

Can you cite some examples? Studies? Taverner Dec 2012 #59

True, Lizzie. janx Dec 2012 #167

It takes a big person to admit they were wrong. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #21

If you don't like being lied to, don't turn on FAUX noise.That's all they do and they're proud of it judesedit Dec 2012 #38

Irrational thinking leads to irrational action. Taverner Dec 2012 #55

I feel you made a wise decision as firearms are not for everybody. I should point out ... spin Dec 2012 #116

It is, specifically, the irrational NRA gun cultism, that is the problem. DirkGently Dec 2012 #39

Yessiree! You are correct, and well said. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #43

+1000 billh58 Dec 2012 #48

i see your +1000 and... i'm all in farminator3000 Dec 2012 #110

Exactamundo Taverner Dec 2012 #52

nail. head. bang! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #108

The term 'jackbooted thugs' was invented by the left after Waco and Ruby Ridge and a few other anchovy Dec 2012 #131

how many times did they invent it? 3? 4? or maybe it was your boss farminator3000 Dec 2012 #137

I'm going to be charitable and assume you are young. The term was coined after the anchovy Dec 2012 #164

bullshit farminator3000 Dec 2012 #169

Really? My recollection was that it was the right that imploded DirkGently Dec 2012 #180

you said it! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #184

i remember it well, '95. no kent state. wrong wrong wrong and WRONG! no waco, no ruby nothing farminator3000 Dec 2012 #183

K&R. The gun industry is an industry. Just like the tobacco industry. Just like the oil industry. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #47

I did a 180 the opposite way. dkf Dec 2012 #56

Interesting hypothesis. Taverner Dec 2012 #57

People who believe their rights are being violated can be amazingly single minded and intense. dkf Dec 2012 #69

Most people realize that Constituttional rights are limited and regulated. Except the 2A folks. yewberry Dec 2012 #186

Doesn't the Brady campaign lobby? dkf Dec 2012 #198

Here's a chart. yewberry Dec 2012 #208

There's that NRA billh58 Dec 2012 #79

I don't read what the NRA puts out, but I do read DU. dkf Dec 2012 #85

I talk to DU-ers every day billh58 Dec 2012 #92

And what do you think the OP is espousing? dkf Dec 2012 #104

I just re-read the post billh58 Dec 2012 #107

"Guns = murder Every time" dkf Dec 2012 #109

I see it as calling a spade a spade... billh58 Dec 2012 #117

Keep murder legal but regulated? dkf Dec 2012 #118

Wow! billh58 Dec 2012 #121

I don't see how you interpret guns = murder every time into dkf Dec 2012 #125

Oh, I see what you did there. billh58 Dec 2012 #128

No it's okay. I just think it follows logically. dkf Dec 2012 #166

If Scotus finds 5-4 against DOMA and PROP 8 will we still hate them? anchovy Dec 2012 #136

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #141

I'm starting to love this place where dissenting opinions are so very welcome. anchovy Dec 2012 #143

If you can still read this "Bubba" billh58 Dec 2012 #176

you crack me up... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #145

leave the man alone farminator3000 Dec 2012 #142

You know something?...I'm a REAL veteran. I swore to uphold the Constitution of anchovy Dec 2012 #144

you better not mess with bill, i think he's got ya on that one. maybe you were, but farminator3000 Dec 2012 #147

It wouldn't be all that strange...I have lots of batshit nuts friends. anchovy Dec 2012 #149

so where'd you fight? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #154

Viet Nam anchovy Dec 2012 #157

oh, really? prove it. where is it? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #161

lying to a veteran about being a veteran is pretty weak farminator3000 Dec 2012 #172

And you know what Bubba, I get the feeling that you're a plant too. billh58 Dec 2012 #155

Ooh, a REAL veteran. My, my, aren't you special Bubba? billh58 Dec 2012 #153

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #159

"Calling for no regulation whatsoever" Jenoch Dec 2012 #178

maybe being more specific than 'guns' would allow you to form an argument farminator3000 Dec 2012 #151

Guns = murder Every time Flatulo Dec 2012 #58

Yes, guns are so helpful as cooking tools and gardening insturments Taverner Dec 2012 #61

"Seriously, what is a gun good for besides killing?" Flatulo Dec 2012 #65

It's terribly difficult to imagine anyone more dedicated to "gun control" than anchovy Dec 2012 #152

Excellent point. I'd never thought of it that way. But Flatulo Dec 2012 #168

Thank you. I still can't figure out how leaving people defenseless is a 'progressive' value. anchovy Dec 2012 #146

If you own a gun for non-sporting reasons, the odds are against you BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #67

"That's one reason why most people don't have one." Flatulo Dec 2012 #70

Not true for legal gun owners. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #83

The theater shooting made me skeptical... Deep13 Dec 2012 #73

The soldiers at Ft. Hood were not armed. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #86

Interesting, thanks. nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #162

It was a civilian policeman, Sergeant Jenoch Dec 2012 #181

Thanks. N/T GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #200

thanks, that was totally cool! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #87

you can cut and paste it with attribution. nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #189

Weasels and liars!? Among a crowd that obsesses over implements of violence and dismisses... villager Dec 2012 #74

NPR libodem Dec 2012 #94

That one group of lobbiests should be allowed to, in effect, issue such a gag order is appalling. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #105

yep libodem Dec 2012 #120

Suicides, terroristic intimidation, violence, accidents, murder, bystander deaths Care Acutely Dec 2012 #113

I've always been creeped out by guns, and probably more inclined towards greater regulation of them. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #122

"Then the killings started. One after another" NickB79 Dec 2012 #126

go away you have nothing farminator3000 Dec 2012 #140

I understand the sentiment..... paleotn Dec 2012 #163

good idea, but ban is strong word farminator3000 Dec 2012 #175

Of course they're liars amuse bouche Dec 2012 #193

What did you have for dinner tonight, Tav? flvegan Dec 2012 #194

no such thing as justifiable homicide in Taverner's World but, there will be cookies and milk! Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #199

Ahhhh, so says the "steely eyed missile man!" Pholus Dec 2012 #202

where and when did I ever say such a thing? in my imagination I am flying away from this nonsense. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #203

My own 180 on guns happened when I left Boston Warpy Dec 2012 #207

K&R farminator3000 Dec 2012 #228

Thank you taverner for a great post locks Dec 2012 #214

i just noticed the OP's update. hmm. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #229

Thanks, Taverner. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #232