General Discussion

former9thward

(33,424 posts)

88. Just so we are on the same page:

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:33 PM

Dec 2012

Well not on the same page because that has proven to be impossible in gun discussion but at least some facts. First LA has 3.8 million and Chicago 2.7 million. Chicago is not "half size". Can we agree on that?

Second Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the nation. It looks like that has not had an impact.

Third: Do you have any proof that the buy back has not had an impact? You are asking me to prove a negative. That is impossible and I expect you know it. I could say the same-- Do you have any proof it it has had an impact? But I won't because you would correctly say it has been too early, etc.

Fourth, crime rates and murder have been going down over the last 20 years or so nationally. I am happy LA is part of that trend. The reasons for this have been the subject of much debate among criminologists. Google and you will see many articles and papers giving various reasons.

Finally gun sales are up significantly in CA and gun injuries and deaths are down. http://www.sacbee.com/2012/12/27/5079151/california-gun-sales-increase.html

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A $100 billion, one-time program aimed at buying back 200 million firearms at $500 a pop. [View all] Robb Dec 2012 OP

$500 per gun would not be an offer which could not be refused 1-Old-Man Dec 2012 #1

Junk still fires. Robb Dec 2012 #3

I would still keep my Dad's service .45. 11 Bravo Dec 2012 #169

I would, too. Robb Dec 2012 #174

Agreed, (and I think we're pretty much on the same page with regard to gun control). 11 Bravo Dec 2012 #177

It wouldn't surprise me. Robb Dec 2012 #179

Not true AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #54

The LA program was a failure. former9thward Dec 2012 #58

It was a resounding success AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #60

If you want to call a feel good PR stunts a "resounding success", fine. former9thward Dec 2012 #68

What standards do you use? The rate of shooting crimes in LA is dropping, while Chicago, at half Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #85

Just so we are on the same page: former9thward Dec 2012 #88

It was a one time cash infusion into the economy that allowed people dump Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #79

They were training launchers... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #82

the conservatives here even post against gun buybacks CreekDog Dec 2012 #95

If you are going to slander a poster do it as a reply to the OP. former9thward Dec 2012 #103

you want to take positions against gun buybacks and against liberal ideas, take the heat for them CreekDog Dec 2012 #105

I was trying to help you. former9thward Dec 2012 #112

Yep. Any junk Garand that can still push a bullet will fetch $500 Xithras Dec 2012 #118

Good idea. But . . . . . Hoyt Dec 2012 #2

I think $300B might actually make a slight difference. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #80

Maybe. Although I sure hate to reward people for their bad habits and macabre interests. Hoyt Dec 2012 #89

Yeah, because selling a $1200.00 gun for $500.00 is such a *GREAT* return on investment.... Ghost in the Machine Dec 2012 #159

Limits on gun ownership already exist Robb Dec 2012 #160

There are cheap weapons out there. NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #162

So what does that have to do with this idea? Robb Dec 2012 #164

Some OPs have stated that these buybacks would clear most guns from the nation. NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #165

Ok, so I can go buy several High-Point 9mm's, that run about $109.99 brand new, then sell them for Ghost in the Machine Dec 2012 #175

You didn't read much of this thread, did you? Robb Dec 2012 #176

Should have thought of that when you bought them. You lose your "investment" in guns -- tough. Hoyt Dec 2012 #163

He wouldn't lose the investment. 5th amendment. NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #167

If transfer/use/perception/ammo of/for damn things are banned/restricted, market value will plunge. Hoyt Dec 2012 #170

And that would go to the courts since the law damaged the value. NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #171

Government action damages the stock market, housing values, etc. Good luck with your and NRA's suit Hoyt Dec 2012 #172

LOL. NutmegYankee Dec 2012 #173

All I had to think about was my Constitutional Right...... Ghost in the Machine Dec 2012 #178

I don't alert on folks, Ghost. How much do you have invested in guns? Hoyt Dec 2012 #180

hell yeah..go for it backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #4

Haha JohnnyBoots Dec 2012 #32

There ya go AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #40

start taxing guns to reflect their true cost on society samsingh Dec 2012 #5

should we also backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #8

We already do. Alcohol & tobacco is taxed heavily, and cars require insurance. JaneyVee Dec 2012 #12

do we tax cars backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #20

We tax the hell out of fuel. Robb Dec 2012 #23

not really backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #24

Does ad valorem tax count? ecstatic Dec 2012 #26

Cars aren't used as mass murder weapons AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #41

Let's see. You pay for a driver's license. You pay to register your car. Yavin4 Dec 2012 #69

we pay tax on gasoline, we have to buy insurance on cars samsingh Dec 2012 #87

with the condition warrior1 Dec 2012 #6

how are you going to enforce that? backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #11

Same way you can't buy booze with SNAP. Robb Dec 2012 #14

you're joking..right? backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #19

And yet less than $1 in every $100 in SNAP is spent fraudulently. Robb Dec 2012 #22

nope backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #25

Looks like every gun owner on this thread is ready to break the law. Robb Dec 2012 #35

Yep! bongbong Dec 2012 #134

*cough* *cough* SQUEE Dec 2012 #135

Very stiff penalties for doing so AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #43

I agree backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #62

Gun buy backs have nothing to do with traffic violations AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #63

and 10k fines for owning guns will never happen backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #67

But AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #128

If I can use the prepaid cards... krispos42 Dec 2012 #28

If guns are that important to you AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #45

Hmmm, I suppose that we could cut Social Security to buy back guns to provide Social Security HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #7

It would take a lot of handguns, rifles, and shotguns off the streets. bluedigger Dec 2012 #9

$500 a gun would remove alot of guns. JaneyVee Dec 2012 #10

What if we pass a law making numerous guns illegal to possess 1st? THEN $500 a piece jmg257 Dec 2012 #13

not worth it for me to sell any of mine for only that much loli phabay Dec 2012 #15

Then you wouldn't have to. Robb Dec 2012 #16

it wouldn't reduce shit backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #27

Nobody would sell you junk guns to turn in AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #47

Agree energumen Dec 2012 #17

I would use the card to buy a money order which I would then deposit Renew Deal Dec 2012 #18

It's illegal to use food stamps to buy electronics. Robb Dec 2012 #21

But what's to stop them Revanchist Dec 2012 #29

A crappy economy? Robb Dec 2012 #37

Massive fines if you get caught AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #49

agreed backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #64

More false equivenancy AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #66

+1. Robb Dec 2012 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author Matt_R Dec 2012 #151

Interesting idea, but you could put a time limit in there Robb Dec 2012 #155

I understand where you're coming from, but I think this is a different situation. EOTE Dec 2012 #59

I'd sell all of my Mosin-Nagant rifles for $500 each slackmaster Dec 2012 #30

Exactly! I got in on the 2008 Mosin Nagant M44 blowout (5 M44's shipped for $200), cleaned them, kelly1mm Dec 2012 #34

Any number of structures could make that plan illegal. Robb Dec 2012 #39

Arbitrage is not fraud. There were no exceptions in the OP for guns valued at less than $500 kelly1mm Dec 2012 #53

Excellent idea. aikoaiko Dec 2012 #168

What about my "hi-cap" magazines and ammo? -..__... Dec 2012 #31

This program would net a shitload of .22 rifles... krispos42 Dec 2012 #33

Handguns always outnumber rifles in buyback programs. Robb Dec 2012 #36

It's probably because handguns are used far more often in crimes. There are many "dirty" handguns... slackmaster Dec 2012 #42

Well, they are usually done in cities... krispos42 Dec 2012 #71

The dog whistle is beneath you, krispos. Robb Dec 2012 #74

Reply: krispos42 Dec 2012 #99

Show me a gun buyback program being done in a small, rural town. krispos42 Dec 2012 #98

Small rural towns can barely keep their streets sprayed with mag chloride. Robb Dec 2012 #110

Hmmmm.... krispos42 Dec 2012 #120

Gun buyback programs work best in densely populated areas in which you have crime in the JDPriestly Dec 2012 #149

The gun buy back in LA netted rocket launchers AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #50

no, empty tubes Duckhunter935 Dec 2012 #57

It also netted 75 assault weapons AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #61

The term "assault weapon"... krispos42 Dec 2012 #73

Nice try AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #75

From the California definition of Assault Weapon hack89 Dec 2012 #77

You can spin until your head explodes AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #81

They collected assault "weapons" correct? hack89 Dec 2012 #83

It is third grade arithmetic AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #124

Some pistols are pistols, some pistols are assault weapons hack89 Dec 2012 #130

So... AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #131

Just pointing out that those assualt weapons hack89 Dec 2012 #132

So they counted the weapons twice? AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #137

What type of weapons constitute assault weapons according to CA law? hack89 Dec 2012 #142

My 9mm is 12+1 obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #86

I have a 9mm T33 Tokarev AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #126

How am I supposed to know? obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #129

My point exactly AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #133

*sigh* krispos42 Dec 2012 #101

The gun count is cut and dried AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #127

I'm not. I'm letting you know that "assault weapons"... krispos42 Dec 2012 #146

Absolute made up nonsense AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #147

I'm sorry we've reached an impasse. krispos42 Dec 2012 #157

You really need to educate yourself on this topic. ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #166

It netted 2 war trophies. krispos42 Dec 2012 #72

Why are you so intimidated AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #76

no Duckhunter935 Dec 2012 #90

I dislike hysteria-based politics and policy and legislation. krispos42 Dec 2012 #96

Says the person freaking out at the equivalent of a pair of scabbards? (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #161

Yeah! Good idea. Spirochete Dec 2012 #38

For one year followed by a strict prohibition of future sales. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #44

As long as you're buying them from people who will misus them. rrneck Dec 2012 #46

What would I buy with worthless rifles? shintao Dec 2012 #48

Put a stipulation in the buy back law AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #52

But that's the problem Revanchist Dec 2012 #70

Your position is very convoluted AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #78

So they can go out and buy new ones? The NRA would be delighted... Walk away Dec 2012 #51

throw this in with it, now we're talking! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #55

A tiny minority of gun owners would be livid, or abuse the system AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #56

I think it is a great idea. Arctic Dave Dec 2012 #65

A lot of guns would be permanently off the street divineorder Dec 2012 #84

I'd just sell my 3 guns for 1500 dollars and then rebuy them for like the 700 I originally paid Kurska Dec 2012 #91

Would you do that if it were against the law to do so? Robb Dec 2012 #92

No, but I'd manipulate the hell out of it. Kurska Dec 2012 #181

Seeing as how a Bushmaster .223 costs about 50% more than $500... OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #94

Gun theft would go through the roof so thieves could turn them in for the $$$ - lynne Dec 2012 #97

Similar to my gun buy back idea. ZX86 Dec 2012 #100

We need to stop thinking about this as a class issue. Deep13 Dec 2012 #102

My idea would address your concerns. ZX86 Dec 2012 #104

You would get a bunch cheap rifles, shotguns and pistols. But it wouldn't doc03 Dec 2012 #106

Are only expensive weapons dangerous? Robb Dec 2012 #107

No I am talking mostly about the military style semi-autos doc03 Dec 2012 #111

You can kill 20 kids with 20 guns in 20 hands pretty easily, too. Robb Dec 2012 #113

You will never eliminate those deaths unless you eliminate all guns doc03 Dec 2012 #115

I know, zero chance because there are so many guns. Robb Dec 2012 #117

Overpay? Have you priced guns lately? GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #108

I can walk outside and get five pistols for $500 in under an hour. Robb Dec 2012 #109

If you want Jimenez Arms, go for it. N/T GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #152

Are cheap handguns somehow less dangerous? Robb Dec 2012 #154

$500 is more than a lot of guns are worth. And some guns are worth a hell of a lot more than that. backscatter712 Dec 2012 #114

Lottery idea bypasses a lot of your concerns. ZX86 Dec 2012 #121

Is it just me or..... ZX86 Dec 2012 #116

It's because with 300 million guns in the US, gun control is "impossible." Robb Dec 2012 #119

Actually, gun buybacks aren't a bad idea. Xithras Dec 2012 #122

Straw man? ZX86 Dec 2012 #123

No straw man. Preschool level mathematics. Xithras Dec 2012 #125

More of the same AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #138

Actually its definately a great idea, SQUEE Dec 2012 #136

Placating the "rabble" with the false sense of power guns offer is better? Robb Dec 2012 #139

The right to protect yourself is no false sense. SQUEE Dec 2012 #140

Everybody's got their story about how their guns aren't part of the problem. Robb Dec 2012 #141

either way as long as it is legal and my right.. SQUEE Dec 2012 #143

To mangle Holmes, your right to swing your gun ends where my nose begins. Robb Dec 2012 #144

I will rely on H.L. Mencken SQUEE Dec 2012 #145

That would only work if you controlled gun sales. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #148

There is regulation already. Robb Dec 2012 #153

I think you'd have to limit what kind of guns were included. JoeyT Dec 2012 #150

Or "blue book" x 1.5, up to $500. (nt) Robb Dec 2012 #156

I'd pull 3 or 4 of my sub 500 bucks guns for this. ileus Dec 2012 #158