General Discussion

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)

41. Weasel wording, as the OP suggested.

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 04:41 PM

Dec 2012

I am not a hard-core anti-gun zealot, but I do not delude myself into thinking that guns are entertainment.

Yes, not all killing is murder, and I was careful in my post not to use the word "murder". I know that guns are used to wage war, and that is not murder....but is still a horror. I do not know anyone personally who target shoots for recreation and competition only...they are also hunters (but I give you that it is possible there are some who do this, although they could easily find another pastime). I know guns are used for hunting, and in this day-and-age, this is not for sustenance but just the thrill of the kill. I know that guns are kept for protection, but that does not mean that the intent is not to kill.

For the record, I have a handgun for protection....although I am not sure that it is the smartest move. And I am aware that if I were to use it, I would be taking a life. In my eyes, killing. In the eyes of the person slain, murder. It is all perspective.

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Why did I do such a 180 on guns? [View all] Taverner Dec 2012 OP

people kill people but riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #1

And, That's the main reason gun culture is so attracted to them. Hoyt Dec 2012 #8

I'm going to completely level with you. Flatulo Dec 2012 #216

That's a pretty high percentage, although I think percentage is higher. Hoyt Dec 2012 #217

Frankly, I think a lot of them are buying weapons out of defiance, and not necessarily out of Flatulo Dec 2012 #218

Since damn near all of them are white yahoos, I hope the end up eating those guns. Hoyt Dec 2012 #219

That would be pretty funny, especially since I hear the AR-15s have been run up to $5k. nt Flatulo Dec 2012 #221

Because they're WHITE or because they're yahoos? Bake Dec 2012 #225

I read that the body of the youngest victim had 11 gun shot wounds. CrispyQ Dec 2012 #165

Too much to bear vankuria Dec 2012 #171

Me too. CrispyQ Dec 2012 #174

That one report sent me into such a depression. I wish there were a hell so that Lanza and his Flatulo Dec 2012 #211

Guns *encourage* killing. Kablooie Dec 2012 #190

You say, "the gun lobby is lying to you." Not to me. They, whoever they are, don't even contact me. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #2

you get a paycheck, don't you? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #6

the biggest piece of BS there farminator3000 Dec 2012 #9

NYC is having its lowest murder rate this year Lucky Luciano Dec 2012 #23

wonder why? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #29

Take a look at El Paso, TX. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #66

don't take a look at el paso farminator3000 Dec 2012 #90

Interesting take on El Paso in this article discussing how Lucky Luciano Dec 2012 #132

Compare population October Dec 2012 #191

When one list a rate, population is automatically taken into consideration. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #201

I have lived in El Paso itsrobert Dec 2012 #204

I took Post # 23s statement for NYC population. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #213

Nothing that you are saying has anything to do with what I've said. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #50

you said this- farminator3000 Dec 2012 #93

Are you nuts? Are you saying that someone by the name of "ted nugent" is a lobbyists? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #101

he's ON THE BOARD OF THE NRA FOR GOD'S SAKE farminator3000 Dec 2012 #112

i apologize in advance if you are a respectable lady, but, you asked farminator3000 Dec 2012 #114

I knew Nugent was a repulsive human being Lordquinton Dec 2012 #195

you are insulting human beings by giving him that status! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #205

I agree, In SC the crime rate was climbing oldbanjo Dec 2012 #170

the gun lobby talking points are all over DU every damn day Skittles Dec 2012 #196

Looks like you answered your own question. Rex Dec 2012 #3

Guns don't equal murder every time... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #4

right, target shooting, whatever farminator3000 Dec 2012 #7

So are you claiming that 50% of guns have been used for murder? Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #15

nope. that is a number, i'll give you that. 50% is more like the number of illegal guns going around farminator3000 Dec 2012 #20

A high percentage of those murders are a direct result of our failed War on Drugs. ... spin Dec 2012 #124

so what? who said anything about drugs? they don't shoot each other with drugs..spin off! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #133

Pass a law banning and confiscating all firearms in our nation and watch what will happen. ... spin Dec 2012 #150

nobody said TAKE ALL THE GUNS AWAY. so TAKE YOURSELF AWAY farminator3000 Dec 2012 #156

Many people here on DU have suggested that in recent days. ... spin Dec 2012 #182

many people here on DU don't wanna hear your nonsense farminator3000 Dec 2012 #227

Happy new year to you. ... spin Jan 2013 #230

you too, you seem cool! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #231

Thanks. (n/t) spin Jan 2013 #233

Self defense is NOT murder. Bake Dec 2012 #226

Did you get paid to sign up Control-Z Dec 2012 #14

Got it... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #16

You have 58 posts, cowboy. Control-Z Dec 2012 #32

Every plant the NRA/Gungeon billh58 Dec 2012 #36

Seriously. Control-Z Dec 2012 #51

a nickel? that much? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #98

Most of them never make it billh58 Dec 2012 #99

How about this, Slick? billh58 Dec 2012 #33

Take a deep breath, count to 10... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #34

Yeah, I will step outside for a moment because billh58 Dec 2012 #35

Members who joined DU right after Newtown Robb Dec 2012 #40

Seems to be the hot topic of the moment... Coyote_Tan Dec 2012 #42

because its a royal pain in the @ss farminator3000 Dec 2012 #111

Indeed. Robb Dec 2012 #160

So Democrats who happen to differ on this one issue are completely unwelcome? anchovy Dec 2012 #135

Aw. Robb Dec 2012 #179

Again, priceless. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #37

you should have called yourself dizzy puppet... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #102

woo hoo! are you typing that or just yelling into your phone?!?!? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #100

I don't believe you did a 180 at all slackmaster Dec 2012 #5

Read through my posts if you want... Taverner Dec 2012 #10

Have you changed your mind on vets? XRubicon Dec 2012 #12

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #53

I thought you said you don't support the troops? XRubicon Dec 2012 #77

How many sock puppets do you have? No, supporting the troops means supporting what they do Taverner Dec 2012 #78

Do you get off on stalking me? Taverner Dec 2012 #81

I'm still not against guns as a whole, but I am against Cleita Dec 2012 #11

Guns = Murder??? Every time ??? aikoaiko Dec 2012 #13

Guns have one purpose. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #18

Not all killing is murder. Let's not conflate terms. aikoaiko Dec 2012 #28

Weasel wording, as the OP suggested. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #41

Good post. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #45

I've made intruders run, twice Taverner Dec 2012 #54

Good on ya! Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #60

Ever see the 30 Rock where Liz dresses like a crazy homeless lady so everyone leaves her alone? Taverner Dec 2012 #63

"... But I do think most burglars want no part of a confrontation, armed or otherwise." Flatulo Dec 2012 #72

Nope. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #82

Yeah, that's the optimal outcome. Still, not one that I ever relish having to deal with. nt Flatulo Dec 2012 #89

hi darkangel!!! ret5hd Dec 2012 #76

Well done, but not all of us are able to fight off intruders. Flatulo Dec 2012 #62

Thing is, neither I nor any others are calling for a complete gun ban Taverner Dec 2012 #64

Then I misread your OP and apologize. Flatulo Dec 2012 #68

Strange that I have enjoyed shooting my .22 cal semi-auto target pistols and ... spin Dec 2012 #106

You were lucky. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #71

Rounds from handguns are not always lethal. .... spin Dec 2012 #103

Yes, that is what I have heard. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #123

Meh, still wouldn't want to spend my Saturday nite having a 9mm Black Talon picked out of my spine. Flatulo Dec 2012 #138

That sums up why I hope I NEVER have to use a firearm for self defense. ... spin Dec 2012 #177

This should be a thread of its own. Heidi Dec 2012 #206

Your welcome. I also happen to believe that the statistics do not accurately reflect how often Flatulo Dec 2012 #209

This message was self-deleted by its author Heidi Dec 2012 #212

Bravo on the marksmanship training, especially considering the circumstances under which you Flatulo Dec 2012 #215

The sole reason for the existence of guns is truely as you say... sanatanadharma Dec 2012 #30

Bullseye target shooting is far different than defensive shooting ... spin Dec 2012 #115

You can use guns for target shooting Lordquinton Dec 2012 #197

If that killing is in the cause of self- defense, then it is both legally and morally justified. Flatulo Dec 2012 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author Flatulo Dec 2012 #46

Guns have one purpose NickB79 Dec 2012 #127

Target shooting is fun, but too expensive unless your shooting .22 cal, or doing your own reloads. Flatulo Dec 2012 #139

when (or if) the upset over massacre(s) dies down here Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #75

People who support the RKBA are devastated by the massacre, too. aikoaiko Dec 2012 #95

Sorry but the pattern has been repeated too often for me to buy that. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #96

Sure some people, including me, are concerned about maintaining a civil liberty even as... aikoaiko Dec 2012 #148

NRA doesn't care about the 2nd amendment LynneSin Dec 2012 #17

It's a 1-sentence amendment and they have managed to convince... Deep13 Dec 2012 #80

I'd read some arguments that whenever the Framers used "the People" in either the body Flatulo Dec 2012 #91

Get a clue bongbong Dec 2012 #119

But Hamitlon wrote in Federalist #28... Flatulo Dec 2012 #130

LOL bongbong Dec 2012 #185

The current SCOTUS has ruled that the 2A is both an individual right as well as Flatulo Dec 2012 #187

Right wing fucks infesting DU bongbong Dec 2012 #220

'Scuse me? That's not a very nice thing to say. Flatulo Dec 2012 #222

Not directed at you bongbong Dec 2012 #223

But surely you realize that President Obama has acknowledged that the 2A Flatulo Dec 2012 #224

Like where else in the original Constitution or BOR? nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #158

Well sir, right in the 1A... Flatulo Dec 2012 #173

I figured you'ld point to the 4th. Deep13 Dec 2012 #188

This message was self-deleted by its author Flatulo Dec 2012 #192

Respectfully disagree with this. Flatulo Dec 2012 #210

I strongly disagree about the relative merits of the respective research. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #19

research this farminator3000 Dec 2012 #22

Not telling me a thing I don't already know. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #24

BS post a link to some anti gun control thing that isn't a complete crock. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #26

This hasn't been normalized to population size, so it's deceptive. Flatulo Dec 2012 #49

normalize this farminator3000 Dec 2012 #84

Sorry, I missed that. Sloppy on my part. Flatulo Dec 2012 #88

s'ok, flats.. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #97

Supposedly Clinton's community policing efforts contributed meaningfully to the drop Flatulo Dec 2012 #129

I also wonder about the combination of our high demand and punitive penalties for drug use. Flatulo Dec 2012 #134

e�pis�te�mol�o�gy MY ASS. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #25

Priceless. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #27

awesome! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #31

Can you cite some examples? Studies? Taverner Dec 2012 #59

True, Lizzie. janx Dec 2012 #167

It takes a big person to admit they were wrong. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #21

If you don't like being lied to, don't turn on FAUX noise.That's all they do and they're proud of it judesedit Dec 2012 #38

Irrational thinking leads to irrational action. Taverner Dec 2012 #55

I feel you made a wise decision as firearms are not for everybody. I should point out ... spin Dec 2012 #116

It is, specifically, the irrational NRA gun cultism, that is the problem. DirkGently Dec 2012 #39

Yessiree! You are correct, and well said. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #43

+1000 billh58 Dec 2012 #48

i see your +1000 and... i'm all in farminator3000 Dec 2012 #110

Exactamundo Taverner Dec 2012 #52

nail. head. bang! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #108

The term 'jackbooted thugs' was invented by the left after Waco and Ruby Ridge and a few other anchovy Dec 2012 #131

how many times did they invent it? 3? 4? or maybe it was your boss farminator3000 Dec 2012 #137

I'm going to be charitable and assume you are young. The term was coined after the anchovy Dec 2012 #164

bullshit farminator3000 Dec 2012 #169

Really? My recollection was that it was the right that imploded DirkGently Dec 2012 #180

you said it! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #184

i remember it well, '95. no kent state. wrong wrong wrong and WRONG! no waco, no ruby nothing farminator3000 Dec 2012 #183

K&R. The gun industry is an industry. Just like the tobacco industry. Just like the oil industry. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #47

I did a 180 the opposite way. dkf Dec 2012 #56

Interesting hypothesis. Taverner Dec 2012 #57

People who believe their rights are being violated can be amazingly single minded and intense. dkf Dec 2012 #69

Most people realize that Constituttional rights are limited and regulated. Except the 2A folks. yewberry Dec 2012 #186

Doesn't the Brady campaign lobby? dkf Dec 2012 #198

Here's a chart. yewberry Dec 2012 #208

There's that NRA billh58 Dec 2012 #79

I don't read what the NRA puts out, but I do read DU. dkf Dec 2012 #85

I talk to DU-ers every day billh58 Dec 2012 #92

And what do you think the OP is espousing? dkf Dec 2012 #104

I just re-read the post billh58 Dec 2012 #107

"Guns = murder Every time" dkf Dec 2012 #109

I see it as calling a spade a spade... billh58 Dec 2012 #117

Keep murder legal but regulated? dkf Dec 2012 #118

Wow! billh58 Dec 2012 #121

I don't see how you interpret guns = murder every time into dkf Dec 2012 #125

Oh, I see what you did there. billh58 Dec 2012 #128

No it's okay. I just think it follows logically. dkf Dec 2012 #166

If Scotus finds 5-4 against DOMA and PROP 8 will we still hate them? anchovy Dec 2012 #136

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #141

I'm starting to love this place where dissenting opinions are so very welcome. anchovy Dec 2012 #143

If you can still read this "Bubba" billh58 Dec 2012 #176

you crack me up... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #145

leave the man alone farminator3000 Dec 2012 #142

You know something?...I'm a REAL veteran. I swore to uphold the Constitution of anchovy Dec 2012 #144

you better not mess with bill, i think he's got ya on that one. maybe you were, but farminator3000 Dec 2012 #147

It wouldn't be all that strange...I have lots of batshit nuts friends. anchovy Dec 2012 #149

so where'd you fight? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #154

Viet Nam anchovy Dec 2012 #157

oh, really? prove it. where is it? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #161

lying to a veteran about being a veteran is pretty weak farminator3000 Dec 2012 #172

And you know what Bubba, I get the feeling that you're a plant too. billh58 Dec 2012 #155

Ooh, a REAL veteran. My, my, aren't you special Bubba? billh58 Dec 2012 #153

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #159

"Calling for no regulation whatsoever" Jenoch Dec 2012 #178

maybe being more specific than 'guns' would allow you to form an argument farminator3000 Dec 2012 #151

Guns = murder Every time Flatulo Dec 2012 #58

Yes, guns are so helpful as cooking tools and gardening insturments Taverner Dec 2012 #61

"Seriously, what is a gun good for besides killing?" Flatulo Dec 2012 #65

It's terribly difficult to imagine anyone more dedicated to "gun control" than anchovy Dec 2012 #152

Excellent point. I'd never thought of it that way. But Flatulo Dec 2012 #168

Thank you. I still can't figure out how leaving people defenseless is a 'progressive' value. anchovy Dec 2012 #146

If you own a gun for non-sporting reasons, the odds are against you BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #67

"That's one reason why most people don't have one." Flatulo Dec 2012 #70

Not true for legal gun owners. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #83

The theater shooting made me skeptical... Deep13 Dec 2012 #73

The soldiers at Ft. Hood were not armed. GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #86

Interesting, thanks. nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #162

It was a civilian policeman, Sergeant Jenoch Dec 2012 #181

Thanks. N/T GreenStormCloud Dec 2012 #200

thanks, that was totally cool! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #87

you can cut and paste it with attribution. nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #189

Weasels and liars!? Among a crowd that obsesses over implements of violence and dismisses... villager Dec 2012 #74

NPR libodem Dec 2012 #94

That one group of lobbiests should be allowed to, in effect, issue such a gag order is appalling. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #105

yep libodem Dec 2012 #120

Suicides, terroristic intimidation, violence, accidents, murder, bystander deaths Care Acutely Dec 2012 #113

I've always been creeped out by guns, and probably more inclined towards greater regulation of them. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #122

"Then the killings started. One after another" NickB79 Dec 2012 #126

go away you have nothing farminator3000 Dec 2012 #140

I understand the sentiment..... paleotn Dec 2012 #163

good idea, but ban is strong word farminator3000 Dec 2012 #175

Of course they're liars amuse bouche Dec 2012 #193

What did you have for dinner tonight, Tav? flvegan Dec 2012 #194

no such thing as justifiable homicide in Taverner's World but, there will be cookies and milk! Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #199

Ahhhh, so says the "steely eyed missile man!" Pholus Dec 2012 #202

where and when did I ever say such a thing? in my imagination I am flying away from this nonsense. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #203

My own 180 on guns happened when I left Boston Warpy Dec 2012 #207

K&R farminator3000 Dec 2012 #228

Thank you taverner for a great post locks Dec 2012 #214

i just noticed the OP's update. hmm. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #229

Thanks, Taverner. Darque Wing Jan 2013 #232