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Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
16. Congress hasn't passed a budget in years
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:12 PM
Dec 2012

Instead they go through continuing spending authorizations.

But you are confusing spending and debt. Congress has the power to raise revenue, authorize spending, and the power to raise money by borrowing. Only Congress has the power to raise money by borrowing. Section 8.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei#section8

The Executive does not, and if the Executive were to do so without Congressional authorization, the debt would not be legal public debt subject to the 14th amendment.

Once Congress has authorized an expenditure, the authorized department of the Executive has that ability to spend that money - if we've got it. The authority to spend that amount of money does not extend to the ability to go out and borrow that money.

There is an ample body of caselaw long in existence that would govern the ajudication of such a legal question, should it ever occur. All corporations (non-natural persons) have designated officers with various powers which are granted to them by resolution. Take for example a Director of an Association. The association executes a resolution saying that this Director has the ability to spend up to such an amount. If, however, the Director wants to spend the money but the Association doesn't have it, that doesn't give the Director the authority to go out and borrow that amount of money - under contract law, the power to spend is not the power to borrow. The Director only has the legal authority to borrow if that power has been explicitly granted, and believe me, this question has come up before, and been settled before, and always to the detriment of the creditor which extended the unauthorized credit.

What happens in such a case is that the corporation (non-natural person) is NOT liable for the debt. The creditor may seek to recover from the person who actually borrowed the money without authorization, but of course this would not help any creditor of the Treasury because the Treasury has no assets in its own right.

This is not legal rocket science. It's kind of basic, really.

I agree the whole debt ceiling charade seems unconstitutional to me. grantcart Dec 2012 #1
Congress hasn't passed a budget in years Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #16
Well a lot of the nations' leading legal scholars disagree with you grantcart Dec 2012 #18
Youngstown Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #19
k&r... spanone Dec 2012 #2
So this is the law and the POTUS should just enforce it? Deep13 Dec 2012 #3
Thank you, louis Cha Dec 2012 #4
Damn good point! annabanana Dec 2012 #5
Ah, but I've been told today on DU that the constitution should be ignored n2doc Dec 2012 #6
It is a document that is subject to interpretation and change louis c Dec 2012 #7
i don't think that I'd note it works FreeJoe Dec 2012 #8
The debt ceiling increases are for all past spending. louis c Dec 2012 #9
That's precisely the point. Igel Dec 2012 #11
But I bet if the budget doesn't balance, you still have to eat louis c Dec 2012 #12
That is the weirdest reasoning I have ever seen Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #17
Come on louis c Jan 2013 #23
No, purchases on credit is debt. Igel Jan 2013 #35
Are you kidding me? louis c Dec 2012 #13
Yes, I probably will. Igel Jan 2013 #36
"National Debt" and "Public Debt" are all inclusive louis c Jan 2013 #37
I think it's a lot simpler than the 14th amendment jeff47 Dec 2012 #10
+1. nt bemildred Dec 2012 #14
I think you are quite wrong Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #15
Congress continues to make laws that the Government must pay louis c Jan 2013 #22
Why I disagree with your reasoning Jim Lane Jan 2013 #30
Congress passes laws that must be obeyed louis c Jan 2013 #31
That answers nothing. Jim Lane Jan 2013 #32
From article 9 of the Constitution... Redfairen Jan 2013 #20
The debt ceiling is about "appropriations (already) made by law" louis c Jan 2013 #21
Debt Ceiling buzzroller Jan 2013 #24
Welcome to DU, buzzroller louis c Jan 2013 #25
I am hoping to hear this from the Obama administration buzzroller Jan 2013 #26
Some questions exboyfil Jan 2013 #27
I think that he should just ignore the debt ceiling louis c Jan 2013 #28
Can you get a ruling without standing? exboyfil Jan 2013 #29
It's ripe for a challenge, the debt ceiling is. DevonRex Jan 2013 #33
The time is now. Faryn Balyncd Jan 2013 #34
Get on board, this discussion will be the all the rage in the coming weeks louis c Jan 2013 #38
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