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Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
17. That is the weirdest reasoning I have ever seen
Mon Dec 31, 2012, 11:32 PM
Dec 2012

Budgeted spending is not debt. Borrowing is debt. Only Congress has the authority to borrow under the US Constitution.

Your argument appears to be that authorized spending is implicit authorization of debt, but that argument must fail under all known rules of constitutional interpretation, because Congress has already explicitly said that it is not because Congress has passed the debt limit.

Congress has the power to remove the debt limit, but until it does the idea that any SCOTUS would decide that authorized spending = the power to borrow money is flatly ridiculous. This is a fairly standard separation of powers question, and Congress has traditionally decided separation of powers cases between the executive and the legislative branches by reference to first enumerated powers, and then, when the enumerated powers have any element of shared responsibility, by seeing whether Congress has explicitly ruled on the matter.

In this case, your assumption that the authorization to spend given to the Executive is equivalent to the power to raise revenue by borrowing money fails on the following counts:
The powers discussed are enumerated separately in the Constitution (meaning that they are separate powers),
The powers discussed are all assigned to Congress (the Executive may not spend on its own authority, tax on its own authority, raise revenue on its own authority, or borrow on its own authority)
Congress has passed an explicit limit on the public debt, thus explicitly negating any possible argument that Congress "meant to" authorize the Executive to raise debt if a shortfall in revenue occurred.

By definition, the sole power to borrow must include the power not to borrow, and therefore if Congress passes a law saying that the debt limit is such and such, the Executive cannot possibly go out and borrow money that exceeds that authority. It can do what Treasury will now do - which is move money around among accounts and so forth - to continue authorized spending WITHOUT raising debt It cannot borrow.

I agree the whole debt ceiling charade seems unconstitutional to me. grantcart Dec 2012 #1
Congress hasn't passed a budget in years Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #16
Well a lot of the nations' leading legal scholars disagree with you grantcart Dec 2012 #18
Youngstown Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #19
k&r... spanone Dec 2012 #2
So this is the law and the POTUS should just enforce it? Deep13 Dec 2012 #3
Thank you, louis Cha Dec 2012 #4
Damn good point! annabanana Dec 2012 #5
Ah, but I've been told today on DU that the constitution should be ignored n2doc Dec 2012 #6
It is a document that is subject to interpretation and change louis c Dec 2012 #7
i don't think that I'd note it works FreeJoe Dec 2012 #8
The debt ceiling increases are for all past spending. louis c Dec 2012 #9
That's precisely the point. Igel Dec 2012 #11
But I bet if the budget doesn't balance, you still have to eat louis c Dec 2012 #12
That is the weirdest reasoning I have ever seen Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #17
Come on louis c Jan 2013 #23
No, purchases on credit is debt. Igel Jan 2013 #35
Are you kidding me? louis c Dec 2012 #13
Yes, I probably will. Igel Jan 2013 #36
"National Debt" and "Public Debt" are all inclusive louis c Jan 2013 #37
I think it's a lot simpler than the 14th amendment jeff47 Dec 2012 #10
+1. nt bemildred Dec 2012 #14
I think you are quite wrong Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #15
Congress continues to make laws that the Government must pay louis c Jan 2013 #22
Why I disagree with your reasoning Jim Lane Jan 2013 #30
Congress passes laws that must be obeyed louis c Jan 2013 #31
That answers nothing. Jim Lane Jan 2013 #32
From article 9 of the Constitution... Redfairen Jan 2013 #20
The debt ceiling is about "appropriations (already) made by law" louis c Jan 2013 #21
Debt Ceiling buzzroller Jan 2013 #24
Welcome to DU, buzzroller louis c Jan 2013 #25
I am hoping to hear this from the Obama administration buzzroller Jan 2013 #26
Some questions exboyfil Jan 2013 #27
I think that he should just ignore the debt ceiling louis c Jan 2013 #28
Can you get a ruling without standing? exboyfil Jan 2013 #29
It's ripe for a challenge, the debt ceiling is. DevonRex Jan 2013 #33
The time is now. Faryn Balyncd Jan 2013 #34
Get on board, this discussion will be the all the rage in the coming weeks louis c Jan 2013 #38
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