General Discussion

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)

258. First, I didn't say I wasn't a 'qualified professional.' That's just what you read *into* what I

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 02:12 AM

Jan 2013

said, as you read things into everything I post.

Second, you are not a 'qualified professional,' as you have said in this post. Yet you are making pronouncements on this matter right & left & claim to know what's true. So being a 'qualified professional' is apparently not a requirement for making claims in this forum.

You can cite evidence for your views, and I can cite evidence for mine. I have not asked for your credentials or attacked you personally. You have behaved differently toward me.

You don't know anything about my credentials or my personal experience.

I did not 'recommend' that anyone drink alcohol. I said alcohol dulls pain faster than antidepressants. That is my opinion, not a recommendation.

I did not offer any recommendations or opinions about whether of not people should 'seek professional help' for mental difficulties.

I didn't make any statement resembling the one you attribute to me, in quotes no less: 'strong people don't need fucking drugs'.

All those are things you invented out of whole cloth.

It is very tiresome.

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Antidepressants to treat grief? Psychiatry panelists with ties to drug industry say yes [View all] HiPointDem Dec 2012 OP

Heaven forbid people miss more than a few days of work Catherina Dec 2012 #1

If it helps people to get over their grief, then good...nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #2

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #20

Awwwww, you've been tombstoned again already... SidDithers Dec 2012 #28

My 76 year old father took a mild Jenoch Dec 2012 #3

i think you mean you *wouldn't* condemn it, right? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #4

Fixed, thank you. Jenoch Dec 2012 #7

What could go wrong? green for victory Dec 2012 #5

I couldn't agree with you more! StarryNite Dec 2012 #27

Finally someone shared this side of the story AndSheGoesDown Dec 2012 #117

While prescribing an anti-depressant in some cases may be appropriate dballance Dec 2012 #6

You may not be aware of it, Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #45

You are correct dballance Dec 2012 #46

I don't see why we can't treat subclinical resp. infections and emotional discomfort HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #8

you're comparing anti-depressants to anti-histamines? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #9

No. I'm comparing two sources of discomfort and HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #11

Because prescription drugs kill more people than diabetes, than illegal drugs, than influenza & HiPointDem Dec 2012 #12

Who is to determine normal grief? Who is to say when the HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #21

and doctors don't prescribe heroin for head colds. in fact, they don't generally prescribe HiPointDem Dec 2012 #23

Jack Daniels is a common self-medication for grief...it's got problems too. HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #26

your condescending attitude is duly noted. alcohol = non-prescription, & cheap. and more HiPointDem Dec 2012 #36

A lot of depression/anxiety medications are cheap and effective long term. I know. I take one. phleshdef Dec 2012 #39

I take it too larwdem Dec 2012 #52

Me too vankuria Dec 2012 #207

show me where 'brain chemistry imbalance' has ever been demonstrated in the scientific literature. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #102

but the pain is back worse the next day with alcohol, and it can easily become a crutch. bettyellen Dec 2012 #88

no -- they give *your* system a 'kickstart', apparently. but *you* are not the population. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #89

nice bullshit attempt at shaming *me*. if you don't know how SSRIs work and prefer hangovers bettyellen Dec 2012 #96

Drawing attention to the fact that you are not the only human being in the world, your experience HiPointDem Dec 2012 #98

you seem to be really thick about the fact I was talking about my Mom and 6 other people bettyellen Dec 2012 #112

as i said before, your experiences are not the *only* experiences. nor are the experiences HiPointDem Dec 2012 #145

particularly when alcohol is itself a depressant TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #152

thoroughly fucked up and dangerous was exactly my thought. bettyellen Dec 2012 #172

"dangerous"? OMG. fucked up indeed. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #183

to go around and tell people who've been helped by meds that they are wrong because of bettyellen Dec 2012 #185

I didn't say anything like that. Go back and look at the post I was responding to and my response. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #187

is bereavement now 'mental illness?' imagine that. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #180

The OP should ring a bell. nt msanthrope Jan 2013 #267

And I'll treat a mild sub-clinical condition with... TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #48

How you possibly speak for anyone easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #64

And that's exactly whay YOU are doing. TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #67

one day larwdem Dec 2012 #84

how do you know 'it' hasn't happened to him? Other people are not *you*. Most people who HiPointDem Dec 2012 #91

Are you a qualified medical professional? idwiyo Dec 2012 #189

1) It doesn't take a 'qualified medical professional' to assert that bereavement is not a HiPointDem Dec 2012 #192

Thank you for admitting you are not a qualified professional. More inside. idwiyo Dec 2012 #198

First, I didn't say I wasn't a 'qualified professional.' That's just what you read *into* what I HiPointDem Jan 2013 #258

you larwdem Jan 2013 #269

how do you know 'it' hasn't already 'happened' to me? answer: you don't. you don't know HiPointDem Jan 2013 #270

I understand that it's necessary for you. TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #191

so deeply sorry easttexaslefty Skittles Dec 2012 #184

I am so so sorry. ((((Hugs)))) idwiyo Dec 2012 #188

it's bad, isn't it? Skittles Dec 2012 #216

Yes. hugs to you too. idwiyo Dec 2012 #218

There is no comparison. easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #62

and so can ssri's. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #74

I don't quite understand what you're saying -- you seem to support the pill-pushing, except for - downandoutnow Dec 2012 #10

In addition to being a post about anti-depressants it's also a post that reflects HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #15

grief is a mental dysfunction? that's the level of absolute craziness this crap is getting to. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #17

Only because you are in a low information state regarding definitions of pathology HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #22

it's your own editorializing that added 'perpetual'. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #25

Jesus you are dense or just looking for a way to take exception HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #29

maybe it's you who's dense. physicians have always been free to prescribe for 'grief' that goes HiPointDem Dec 2012 #31

Better than someone becoming a newly formed alcoholic or something. Neoma Dec 2012 #60

if they're the type to become alcoholic because of grief, they're also the type to have a similar HiPointDem Dec 2012 #75

Uhm, a lot of people with mental health issues have had drug issues. Neoma Dec 2012 #94

Who made you sit through crap tama Dec 2012 #236

Ya. Sometimes it is. easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #66

what the hell do you know about what i have or haven't experienced? as i said before, docs HiPointDem Dec 2012 #76

Yes actually. The changes occur in the neurotransmitter functions in the brain. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #90

Thank you....HPD is seriously uninformed about SSRIs. bettyellen Dec 2012 #113

Everything you do changes 'neurotransmitter function in the brain.' Everything. The very fact HiPointDem Dec 2012 #146

And your statements signify your willful state of ignorance. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #222

Um...I WOULD criticize someone for taking a med for a runny nose! postrinserepeat.... Dec 2012 #19

It's everyone's choice to choose to be a social bully, to criticize others for taking cold remedies HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #24

And what do you call, browbeating a doctor into prescribing... TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #50

Thank you for bringing us yet ANOTHER example of the rampant pill-pushing going on these days. downandoutnow Dec 2012 #13

Grieving is a social and emotional process. undeterred Dec 2012 #14

Emotional processes are chemical in nature. phleshdef Dec 2012 #41

and chemical processes are emotional in nature. and ssri's are no more effective, in aggregate, HiPointDem Dec 2012 #81

you're completely wrong about ssris and placebos. i hope no one believes this shit. bettyellen Dec 2012 #115

oh, "completely" wrong? how's that? Most people diagnosed with depression & put on SSRIs HiPointDem Dec 2012 #123

Bereavement can CAUSE serious clinical depression. bettyellen Dec 2012 #124

And physicians have always had that option. The new decision is not about 'serious clinical HiPointDem Dec 2012 #133

Um no, chemical process are not emotional. phleshdef Dec 2012 #164

lol. you only think so because you are out of my depth. you have no idea what i'm talking about. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #166

You are talking a bunch of borderline scientology bullshit. phleshdef Dec 2012 #168

And you have no argument, thus the name-calling. Please, link me to a post about 'scientology HiPointDem Dec 2012 #173

OMG, Tom Cruise is in the house! bettyellen Dec 2012 #175

You can't be serious. This would be ignorance of such a breathtaking proportion it must be a joke. idwiyo Dec 2012 #214

Prove me wrong or shut the fuck up. phleshdef Dec 2012 #238

I think you replied to the wrong person :) idwiyo Dec 2012 #245

LOL. My sincerest apologies sir. phleshdef Dec 2012 #246

Not a problem :) Happy New Year! idwiyo Dec 2012 #247

Umm tama Dec 2012 #237

how long is it okay to be depressed? Ten years, twenty of forty? I've seen it happen. bettyellen Dec 2012 #120

Christians put people into despair and depression shintao Dec 2012 #16

wtf does religion have to do with this op? and for that matter, it's bullshit that non-christians HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18

No, what's bullshit is the ridiculous Christian/Western... TheMadMonk Dec 2012 #53

talking about 'other cultures' in aggregate as if they were all the same is bullshit; and 'other HiPointDem Dec 2012 #83

I have been on many different meds for depression over the years. Jennicut Dec 2012 #30

Celexa is a good, cheap, inoffensive anti-anxiety medication. phleshdef Dec 2012 #38

Celexa is not so inoffensive. Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #61

Agreed, active management is required by a psychiatrist TexasBushwhacker Dec 2012 #65

Antidepressants cause different reactions in people. Jennicut Dec 2012 #77

It is your subject line that is the key. Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #136

what works for one doesn't necessarily work well for others TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #160

Well some people can't handle certain medications, whether it be for blood pressure, diabetes... phleshdef Dec 2012 #167

Antidepressants are different than medications than medications Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #199

Do you have statistics to back that up? phleshdef Dec 2012 #200

It isn't how frequently they occur that matters - Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #204

Man when I was in college, 19 years old, I had some pretty crazy sex hookups. phleshdef Dec 2012 #206

That is part of how insidious it is. Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #217

+1, it's amazing around here sometimes Union Scribe Dec 2012 #70

Abso-fucking-lutely... SidDithers Dec 2012 #72

It has been really good for me. Jennicut Dec 2012 #78

Effexor has been the best one for me easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #194

then why does it come with a black-box warning? NO SSRI is 'inoffensive'. they ALL have similar HiPointDem Dec 2012 #85

And so does blood pressure medication, diabetes medication, heart medication, etc. phleshdef Dec 2012 #162

Yes, there's a reason they're supposed to be prescribed by a doctor. But not all prescription meds HiPointDem Dec 2012 #170

You act like you want me to draw you a fucking picture or something. phleshdef Dec 2012 #174

link me to some. since you say they're plentiful. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #176

Not that you deserve the effort... phleshdef Dec 2012 #179

The first link is not to an actual study, but a popularized summary of a study done in 2000. The HiPointDem Dec 2012 #186

Just because something was written for normal human consumption... phleshdef Dec 2012 #197

of course it's less valid when it doesn't report the study results & implications accurately. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #208

You've failed to prove that brain chemistry imbalance doesn't exist. phleshdef Dec 2012 #209

you really don't know anything about the subject, as you've demonstrated quite thoroughly. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #210

You don't need to know much. Its settled, widely accepted science. phleshdef Dec 2012 #211

A popularized explanation from a 'medical professional,' a psych prof at Brown U, just for you. 2/12 HiPointDem Dec 2012 #212

You conveniently left out a lot of what he said in the video. phleshdef Dec 2012 #219

CBS: So how well do scientists & psychiatrists understand the causes of depression? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #221

We don't grieve enough Smilo Dec 2012 #32

+1. when you love someone you never 'get over' their death, you just learn to live with the fact HiPointDem Dec 2012 #33

+1 to you and Smilo n/t dflprincess Dec 2012 #97

yeah, everyone experiences the same level of harmless but perpetual grief that you did! bettyellen Dec 2012 #118

We have an old tradition of "professional" cry-women tama Dec 2012 #240

Our friends in the pharma industry CARE about people. AndyA Dec 2012 #34

It helped my grandmother get her head back together whenever my dad died. phleshdef Dec 2012 #35

oh bullshit. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #37

Oh not bullshit. You are ignorant. You might as well be against all medicine. phleshdef Dec 2012 #42

+1 and hugs to you and your grandma. idwiyo Dec 2012 #43

name-calling duly noted. to clarify, i was saying 'bullshit' to your 'some people are ignorant, HiPointDem Dec 2012 #95

You seem to be telling the people that SSRIs helped Confusious Dec 2012 #140

I have never said a word about people's personal experiences except that their experiences are HiPointDem Dec 2012 #141

You seem to be running around telling everyone that their experiences don't matter Confusious Dec 2012 #144

actually, i started off posting a pretty straightforward article about changes in psychiatric HiPointDem Dec 2012 #147

Unhappiness can be depression also Confusious Dec 2012 #150

nope, 'unhappiness' is not clinical depression, even if it goes on for years. but such fogginess HiPointDem Dec 2012 #151

Sorry, but you're wrong Confusious Dec 2012 #153

there are many reasons for unhappiness, even long-lived unhappiness, and not all of them are HiPointDem Dec 2012 #156

Again, you're wrong Confusious Dec 2012 #161

Calling you ignorant means that I'm saying that you don't know what you are talking about. phleshdef Dec 2012 #158

no, what you mean is that you don't *believe* i know what i'm talking about. and the reason you HiPointDem Dec 2012 #163

You've offered to basically make the Tom Cruise argument. phleshdef Dec 2012 #169

and you are constantly going to the ad hominem argument. I am not tom cruise, nor a scientologist. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #171

You might as well be. Your argument is just as looney. phleshdef Dec 2012 #177

my argument is that bereavement is not clinical depression and doesn't require medication. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #178

You are wrong. Major depressive disorders can be triggered by bereavement. phleshdef Dec 2012 #182

everything he says can be said of ANY medication, including many OTCs. and is bullshit bettyellen Dec 2012 #119

Exactly. Union Scribe Dec 2012 #132

Was this article written by scientologists by any chance? Sure sounds like it to me. idwiyo Dec 2012 #40

yet, Mother Tersa and the Scientologists could have written half these posts. bettyellen Dec 2012 #125

I don't think there is a clear-cut LWolf Dec 2012 #44

People close to me have been dying since I was a little kid, Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #47

If it prevents a suicide, then I am all for it Taverner Dec 2012 #49

the drugs also increase suicide risk, so how would you tell? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #93

...significant financial implications for the $10 billion U.S. antidepressant market... MADem Dec 2012 #51

"Society teaches us that having feelings and crying is bad and wrong. arely staircase Dec 2012 #54

Of course grief isn't wrong. easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #69

that's not what this new ruling is about. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #87

You misunderstand. woo me with science Dec 2012 #159

I would probably do something crazy like try vitamins first... Kalidurga Dec 2012 #55

"Better left to nature" has been replaced due to the profit margin & so goes "first, do no harm". mother earth Dec 2012 #56

What else is "better left to nature"? Union Scribe Dec 2012 #71

grief is not a disease. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #92

Tell me, what exactly do you actually know about bipolar disorder? BeHereNow Dec 2012 #99

is grief now 'bipolar disorder' as well as 'depression' now? gee, science is wonderful. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #100

You are unbelievable and did not answer my question. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #103

did you even *read* the OP? do you know what *bereaved* means? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #105

Yes, I know VERY well what bereaved means. You know nothing about BeHereNow Dec 2012 #109

I don't? Is that so? Perhaps I know a great deal about it, but disagree with your analysis and HiPointDem Dec 2012 #116

What is obvious is that you are trying to discourage others from looking for professional help. idwiyo Dec 2012 #190

To whom have I offered medical advice? On whom have I "forced" medical advice? Please link me. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #193

Every single of your posts here. To everyone who reads them. idwiyo Dec 2012 #201

It's calling tama Dec 2012 #241

And please do tell me what you know about the BP brain malfunctions. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #248

That is your choice then and I respect that tama Dec 2012 #250

There has been NO positive side to BP for the person I love. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #251

That is your narrative about your life situation tama Dec 2012 #252

Wanna come walk a mile in my shoes? BeHereNow Dec 2012 #253

Please feel free to share tama Dec 2012 #254

Thank you for your invitation- BeHereNow Dec 2012 #255

Depression is. nt Union Scribe Dec 2012 #128

the OP, & the new ruling, is not about 'depression'. It's about NORMAL BEREAVEMENT. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #130

Is grief disease? Today we skip diagnosis, feeling is disease. Are you kidding? nt mother earth Jan 2013 #266

I was so thankful when my doctor put me on some short term after the death of my fianc�. CraftyGal Dec 2012 #57

i am sorry that happened to you and glad you let yourself find love and live. n/t babydollhead Dec 2012 #58

People used to be given longer to mourn TexasBushwhacker Dec 2012 #59

so can antidepressants. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #265

while america has been fighting pot wars, big pharma has been incessantly drugging us... spanone Dec 2012 #63

the Feds had the time to file a patent on pot... green for victory Dec 2012 #68

This place looks positively dumb when psychiatry comes up. Union Scribe Dec 2012 #73

+1 Care Acutely Dec 2012 #80

the only people who look dumb are the drug-pushers. worse than dumb, actually. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #86

You have no idea how much damage you are doing tonight. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #106

The OP is about prescribing antidepressants to people who just lost a loved one. Not about HiPointDem Dec 2012 #108

Loss of a "loved one" can take many forms HiPointDem. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #110

the new ruling is not about those 'other contexts'. it is about your mother, father, spouse, child HiPointDem Dec 2012 #111

Again, you have not heard me. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #114

Everything you do changes neurotransmitter 'chemistry'. Moving your hand changes neurotransmitter HiPointDem Dec 2012 #126

Being in a constant state of grief is depression Confusious Dec 2012 #143

You don't know anything about me. But I know you think you can read minds. Over the internet, HiPointDem Dec 2012 #148

It's easy to tell people who've never had real depression Confusious Dec 2012 #149

as i said, i don't offer my personal experience up to score points in pissing matches. but you're HiPointDem Dec 2012 #154

Like I said, I don't have to read minds, only a few written words. Confusious Dec 2012 #155

a person using racial epitaphs (sic) is not automatically a racist, either. and you are no HiPointDem Dec 2012 #157

I said I wasn't a mind reader Confusious Dec 2012 #165

I understand that bereavement is not clinical depression, and it's not mental illness. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #181

I was depressed once, Why don't you just snap out of it, Go find something to do, idwiyo Dec 2012 #213

+1 Union Scribe Dec 2012 #129

Oh dear. Union Scribe Dec 2012 #127

Bereavement is now mental illness, is that what you're pushing? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #131

You do know, I hope, that people with Union Scribe Dec 2012 #134

Doctors have always had it as an option. The old standard was if person didn't return to normal HiPointDem Dec 2012 #137

You're contradicting yourself Union Scribe Dec 2012 #138

doctors have always had the option to prescribe when bereavement turned into pathology: HiPointDem Dec 2012 #139

you ignore this link green for victory Dec 2012 #196

I don't see a problem with this, taken on a case by case basis Care Acutely Dec 2012 #79

A problem I have with this is that once on Ilsa Dec 2012 #82

On the contrary, doctors generally have you taper down after you've been taking them TexasBushwhacker Dec 2012 #121

My late mother ... CountAllVotes Dec 2012 #101

Did you know wellbutrin is given for smoking cessation? Under the name Zyban. And it's in the HiPointDem Dec 2012 #104

My mother is deceased CountAllVotes Dec 2012 #135

Antidepressants can cause physical dependency. Quantess Dec 2012 #107

Yes they do, but the alternative is worse Confusious Dec 2012 #142

Psychiatric meds shouldn't be taken lightly AndSheGoesDown Dec 2012 #122

Ugh. dkf Dec 2012 #195

This is entirely different from the standard treatment I've heard about. no_hypocrisy Dec 2012 #202

I got through it without medication this year. Just some counseling for nightmares and sleep issues. slackmaster Dec 2012 #203

OMG! I FEEL something. Quick, give me a pill so I won't have to be human. nt Speck Tater Dec 2012 #205

In general, I've always liked your posts- but not this one. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #223

I sat at my wife's side as she died. Speck Tater Dec 2012 #226

Not everyone has your good fortune- and my apology for assuming so- BeHereNow Dec 2012 #227

I understand. Speck Tater Dec 2012 #231

one thing people can perhaps agree on is that capitalists try to expand their markets & use HiPointDem Dec 2012 #234

Drug companies don't try to create cures. They try to create customers. nt Speck Tater Dec 2012 #235

+1,000,000! Where do people taking their drugs think Pharma's profits come from? Catherina Dec 2012 #244

Yes tama Dec 2012 #239

Let me tell you a personal story of taking antidepressants for grief. Avalux Dec 2012 #215

Grief is an emotional process AnnieBW Dec 2012 #220

Educate yourself HPD- before making a FOOL OF YOURSELF. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #224

There are neurotransmitter changes with loss/grief? My my. Isn't that amazing. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #225

No, not really. You have revealed yourself as the LEAST educated on this matter. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #228

and yours is amusing to anyone who understands the basics about what neurotransmitters are, HiPointDem Dec 2012 #229

Please- expound on the topic as it relates to mental health... BeHereNow Dec 2012 #230

& you wouldn't understand it if you heard it. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #232

As I predicted... you have nothing of substance to respond with. BeHereNow Dec 2012 #249

You are closed to all input. not my problem. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #257

You are comic relief at this point! "Input?" Are you serious? WHAT input? BeHereNow Jan 2013 #260

i've offered plenty of substantial input. more than you, actually. you've offered a lot of HiPointDem Jan 2013 #261

Substantial input? PLEASE give me examples. BeHereNow Jan 2013 #262

lol. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #264

This man IS a doctor green for victory Jan 2013 #263

Were it not for Paxil, I'm not sure I'd be here WilmywoodNCparalegal Dec 2012 #233

I highly recommend "Demystifying Psychiatry" gulliver Dec 2012 #242

+1. Exactly right, the profit motive and the pharmacorps are dictating the direction of medicine HiPointDem Dec 2012 #243

I have a friend from Ethiopia Matariki Dec 2012 #256

The west & the US used to give similar space & significance to mourning; for example, the practice HiPointDem Jan 2013 #259

Indeed. Both my parents are dead and I remember only having a couple days to 'deal' with it. Matariki Jan 2013 #268