General Discussion

MFrohike

(1,980 posts)

252. I'm tired of posts like this

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 02:07 AM

Jan 2013

Everybody and their brother seems to be making posts about "how politics works" on this site, but I see precious little evidence that those who use the phrase understand politics outside of watching CNN. I see the magic words "compromise" and "negotiation" thrown about, but, honestly, I often get the feeling that they're used for their talismanic quality, as opposed to actual description. It sounds like sports fans talking about their team trying to pick up a new player as opposed to informed citizens watching their government like hawks (necessary no matter who's in office). It has the feel of the self-appointed "enlightened" deigning to lecture the poor, unwashed proles on "reality." The worst part is that I suspect it's almost always ignorant condescension, which just makes it more insulting. It's an annoying trait on this board and I'd prefer to see it gone.

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I'm not sure the country is going over the cliff, but DU sure as hell has. [View all] Barack_America Jan 2013 OP

No flame here.... CherokeeDem Jan 2013 #1

ditto!!! CatWoman Jan 2013 #77

Ditto++! Sanity! Someone had to say it! 6502 Jan 2013 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author 6502 Jan 2013 #124

You're 1000% right! DU craziness is real... 6502 Jan 2013 #130

Oh, and to DUers who don't know what victory looks like... 6502 Jan 2013 #136

agree kardonb Jan 2013 #142

None here, either. BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #253

The majority of members are on the left. Deal with it n/t leftstreet Jan 2013 #2

Explain how that works with the House of Representatives. tabasco Jan 2013 #7

How many DUers are members of that body? leftstreet Jan 2013 #10

Maybe someday donheld Jan 2013 #230

I'm on the left. Doesn't mean I can't comprehend reality. Barack_America Jan 2013 #12

At least you admit it's just a game n/t leftstreet Jan 2013 #15

It is what it is. Barack_America Jan 2013 #23

So make your points without bashing the majority here n/t leftstreet Jan 2013 #27

Actually, he's bashing a very vocal minority on the extremist far left..... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #37

'extremist far left' people want to protect safety nets? leftstreet Jan 2013 #40

Protect the safety net for themselves ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #44

You characterize the majority here as self-serving? leftstreet Jan 2013 #55

Yes, "some of the kindest, most thoughtful people on the left post here".... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #72

How many members are 'extreme far left?' leftstreet Jan 2013 #80

Excellent Point WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #127

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #139

No one has to apologize to you for more than hand to mouth thinking. TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #133

Since you've been homeless ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #144

TRUTH. Number23 Jan 2013 #221

There was never any possibility of 'going over the cliff' ronnie624 Jan 2013 #315

You beat me to that 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #42

So you consider FDR an extremist? How do you feel A Simple Game Jan 2013 #76

Considering Roosevelt left a lot of people (especially minorities) out of Social Security mythology Jan 2013 #106

Civil rights came later. The Republicans won't try to dismantle A Simple Game Jan 2013 #227

Social security helped a far-larger percentage of Americans than, say MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #255

+1000 billh58 Jan 2013 #84

The self-immolation can't happen soon enough Hekate Jan 2013 #163

It is a Circle Bluegene Jan 2013 #89

Actually anything anyone does. aptal Jan 2013 #97

And just voted him back into office! caseymoz Jan 2013 #100

+1 Politicub Jan 2013 #161

"Extremeist far left" who like 70% OF AMERICANS Doctor_J Jan 2013 #201

I know, right? kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #208

Isn't that what happened in 2010? Go ahead, sit out for 2014.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #248

Nope. That an urban legend. hootinholler Jan 2013 #285

That's the role of those outside the center. Jester Messiah Jan 2013 #278

Hmm DJ13 Jan 2013 #229

+100 billh58 Jan 2013 #222

What bothers me creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #231

So tell us what the "extremist far left" wants that you dont want? I dare you. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #237

+1! uponit7771 Jan 2013 #256

so what. if they are such a vocal tiny minority why be upset roguevalley Jan 2013 #266

it is a very, very small group here.... tomp Jan 2013 #273

Really???? Plucketeer Jan 2013 #327

He's not bashing the majority because most of us are in agreement with him lunatica Jan 2013 #56

another voice of reason. thank you! n/t BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #82

Hear hear. There's no chess match unless somebody moves. Barack_America Jan 2013 #102

That's exactly right... Blanks Jan 2013 #125

Sanity -- thank you Hekate Jan 2013 #164

Exactly. nt kstewart33 Jan 2013 #200

Well... fleabiscuit Jan 2013 #311

No thankyou sweety lunatica Jan 2013 #316

See the OP. I made my case there. nt Barack_America Jan 2013 #83

You have no case leftstreet Jan 2013 #96

Bashing? Criticizing. Barack_America Jan 2013 #105

'Flame away, my friends' leftstreet Jan 2013 #108

You, and others from your side of the debate, keep using that billh58 Jan 2013 #189

Wow, if your think that's a violation of the TOS then you're a bit too sensitive.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #250

And those with the guilty consciences are those who now are bashing YOU....I loved that OP, thanks! George II Jan 2013 #312

There was a case? Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #111

Agreed Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #110

the third party Naderites you mean. I am Liberal and President Obama is the best in 50 years graham4anything Jan 2013 #155

I enjoy your voice of reason. Thank you. n/t Isoldeblue Jan 2013 #43

Exactly appacom Jan 2013 #92

Left? Left? You keep using that word. Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #71

except that in your reality hfojvt Jan 2013 #261

As are we all, but a very vocal minority always posts the same extremist crap... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #19

And to the point where one wonders mightily ... Hekate Jan 2013 #165

Yeah, the left that isnt satisfied with 25% of Americans living in poverty and you rhett o rick Jan 2013 #336

Do you have examples or are you just trying to start a fight? Tell us which issues the left support rhett o rick Jan 2013 #240

I'm on the left Lisa D Jan 2013 #57

Left yes, but not leftist ideologues. kstewart33 Jan 2013 #199

Explain which issues you disagree with the left. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #241

I don't disagree with any of these issues. kstewart33 Jan 2013 #293

Ahh yes pragmatism, the reason we been getting our asses kicked for the last 30 years. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #299

The Republicans compromised away their sacred principle. kstewart33 Jan 2013 #332

Bear with me. I still have a point or two to make. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #334

No flames here! Like you said - compromise is not the end of the world! hedgehog Jan 2013 #3

It's all in the definition. Doc Holliday Jan 2013 #79

I call l it a holdover from the 'tough guy' chickenhawk GOP presidencies. freshwest Jan 2013 #148

+1000. nt Barack_America Jan 2013 #206

It may be moot annabanana Jan 2013 #4

Bingo n/t Fumesucker Jan 2013 #6

What is this negotiations you speak off? nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #5

If you dont mind being lied to by the president bowens43 Jan 2013 #8

What was the lie? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #48

He always lies! See 'The Obama Deception' on youtube! He's gonna kill us all!!!1!!11! freshwest Jan 2013 #121

Phew ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #140

Well, I can't say I haven't been close to that sentiment this week: freshwest Jan 2013 #145

... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #150

He speaks my mind throughout the whole film. I've always been that way inside. freshwest Jan 2013 #301

Hey! I just watched that movie last week Control-Z Jan 2013 #264

MIne, too. Ain't it a hoot! freshwest Jan 2013 #291

Be a freeper LW1977 Jan 2013 #198

You aren't too presumptive and arrogant, are you? kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #211

+1 freshwest Jan 2013 #298

Agree 100%. Tired of the totally clueless dumping their bile on DU. nt. OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #9

Thanks, you got that right! freshwest Jan 2013 #123

Rec. Figure out how to stop infesting Congress with Teabaggers CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #11

I tell them they have to GOTV in 2014 ... Hekate Jan 2013 #167

It's been 'cool' to diss Obama and supporters since the right has been doing it all along. freshwest Jan 2013 #330

I agree. It seems like some people do not want to negotiate - Gee - what does that remind you of? jillan Jan 2013 #13

I guess some DUers figure the GOP for terrorists, LOL. liberalmuse Jan 2013 #22

Not a koolaid drinker. Just old. liberalmuse Jan 2013 #14

Damn! That was well said! sheshe2 Jan 2013 #153

You've gone crazy Aerows Jan 2013 #16

Excuse me, but most of us see reality as it really is.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #85

Extreme left? Aerows Jan 2013 #91

I'm playing politics, and so is the President. And yes, you read my post correctly.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #183

What, exactly kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #215

Read a few more posts and you'll get the picture. nt. OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #247

"The political fallout from the clff now falls squarely on House Republicans." - Hunh? WTF are coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #17

Tell me how a $250K limit cures childhood poverty. Barack_America Jan 2013 #31

A perusal of my posts on the subject of the defense budget from 2003 (when I joined DU) until coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #182

Defense spending -- you hit the nail on the head Hekate Jan 2013 #188

the difference druidity33 Jan 2013 #279

but didn't you hear 400K is the new working poor. Cobalt Violet Jan 2013 #32

+1 Owl Jan 2013 #158

Compromise is not a problem cbrer Jan 2013 #18

Agree. Sooooo many on this board have little or no understanding of how politics work. lamp_shade Jan 2013 #20

No the whining DU members understand, but they are as fucked up as House republicans. bluestate10 Jan 2013 #36

That's a big huge incorrect leap, assuming everyone who is unhappy djean111 Jan 2013 #39

Yes, but it's easier to generalize than it is to listen tblue Jan 2013 #47

It's all they've got. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2013 #107

Sure seems that way. n/t lamp_shade Jan 2013 #112

Or real life, for that matter. DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #41

Agree elfin Jan 2013 #21

Our president has a mandate from voters Aerows Jan 2013 #25

And the voters have installed an intransigent GOP majority in the House. How do you propose CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #26

Let me ask you something Aerows Jan 2013 #33

You didn't answer the question. How in the fuck is the President supposed to work past a bluestate10 Jan 2013 #46

Same way Clinton cleaned Gingrich's clock daa Jan 2013 #81

Hindsight is always wonderful. bluestate10 Jan 2013 #195

Did Clinton increase the deficit 4 trillion and have to come back in daa Jan 2013 #337

I AM the American Middle Class. CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #50

d) something that will actually PASS in the house n/t LSK Jan 2013 #60

+1000 AnnieK401 Jan 2013 #51

Exactly Harmony Blue Jan 2013 #94

You seem to liken a "mandate" to a "do whatever the fuck you want" card. It isn't. Barack_America Jan 2013 #34

It is a do whatever the fuck you want card Aerows Jan 2013 #49

yes lets become that which we (pretend) to hate most pasto76 Jan 2013 #70

Just a word of advice. Baitball Blogger Jan 2013 #24

I will be satisfied Aerows Jan 2013 #29

I love you OP Mdterp01 Jan 2013 #28

Very well said nt One of the 99 Jan 2013 #30

You are correct! Pretzel_Warrior Jan 2013 #35

Blah blah blah Trajan Jan 2013 #38

Thank you navarth Jan 2013 #288

Expect many members of DU to stage a nude protest in your home very soon! n/t Darkhawk32 Jan 2013 #45

Why not? They are good in the nude, grabbing their knees for a clueless fool like Ralph Nader. nt bluestate10 Jan 2013 #67

There are a few people here who think anyone who makes a dollar more than they do.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jan 2013 #52

I am with you on that loyalkydem Jan 2013 #68

KRUGMAN SAYS IT BEST Skittles Jan 2013 #53

I am willing to bet $ 1 that if Obama is successful in separating taxes and spending cuts and grantcart Jan 2013 #149

Both sides moved creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #242

Just a guess, but... TreasonousBastard Jan 2013 #54

Thank you!! mimi85 Jan 2013 #64

+1,000. And don't forget the 60 MILLION who voted for much worse things than we got last night! freshwest Jan 2013 #143

Agree, mandate or not, THE HOUSE IS CONTROLLED BY CRAZY TEA PARTY IDEOLOGUES LSK Jan 2013 #58

No flame here either. avebury Jan 2013 #59

That's what makes me so angry about the anti Obama people loyalkydem Jan 2013 #61

Yeah. Damn it. Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #73

I'm in full agreement with you lunatica Jan 2013 #62

The President has a tea party infested House to deal with customerserviceguy Jan 2013 #63

Sure beats the gun talk... Phentex Jan 2013 #65

Me, too-- Louisiana1976 Jan 2013 #93

Yeah. If only people would stop getting shot by them so much, your life would be peachy. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #154

You know, Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #66

Actually here at DU... aptal Jan 2013 #95

We will have to agree Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #109

That is changing now. Many of us are no longer welcome. madfloridian Jan 2013 #175

Well, Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #192

Well, madfloridian Jan 2013 #220

It's not a good idea stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #319

No, it's not that billh58 Jan 2013 #129

I disagree. Seems to be no room for any criticism at all. madfloridian Jan 2013 #177

Actually, the post I was responding billh58 Jan 2013 #184

I supported Obama in 2008, strongly. madfloridian Jan 2013 #187

Somehow I believe that billh58 Jan 2013 #190

What is "my side"? madfloridian Jan 2013 #193

I didn't call you billh58 Jan 2013 #196

How did you get 77,000 posts creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #243

They are from the other DU. madfloridian Jan 2013 #257

Can I pour you another cup of whine? graham4anything Jan 2013 #277

There you go. A classic. Just call someone a whiner if they question anything Obama. madfloridian Jan 2013 #287

Do you still love Bernie Sanders the morning after? graham4anything Jan 2013 #290

Actually I think the whole thing was a political farce. madfloridian Jan 2013 #302

That must be your favorite... using the word "whine" madfloridian Jan 2013 #313

no,saying Naderite is my favorite (used as a negative to 3rd party ites) graham4anything Jan 2013 #318

If you have a side... i'm on it. druidity33 Jan 2013 #282

Thank you. Some very good older posters are not here now. madfloridian Jan 2013 #289

I don't think I've EVER seen Madfloridian kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #205

Uh, you seem a little upset. billh58 Jan 2013 #212

Your reading comprehension kurtzapril4 Jan 2013 #216

Personal attack? billh58 Jan 2013 #223

Thank you. madfloridian Jan 2013 #217

How dare DU keep trying to be progressive. Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #69

Tell me more about Bernie Sanders being a filthy capitalist. Barack_America Jan 2013 #90

Whew. Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #131

?? Unemployment benefits for thousands of Americans are currently EXPIRED. Barack_America Jan 2013 #174

So you vote with boehner and ryan. And no benefits not gone. Jakes Progress Jan 2013 #338

I've been shaking my head at DU every day since the election SaveAmerica Jan 2013 #74

Thats no cave it's a sp... ahem PatrynXX Jan 2013 #75

K&R Firebrand Gary Jan 2013 #78

I am not going to Flame Liberalynn Jan 2013 #86

K&R, could have been much worse Jon Ace Jan 2013 #87

I agree. Negotiation and compromise is how it works. sonibeth Jan 2013 #88

We've had our silliness since the beginning of DU Stuckinthebush Jan 2013 #98

I just hope those that want us to call the bluff and go over are... Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #99

most well-off/rich DUers agree with you fascisthunter Jan 2013 #101

some of my friends are glad that it's not $250,000 Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2013 #103

consider myself to be hard left tiredtoo Jan 2013 #104

Your entire premise is skewed...i.e... humbled_opinion Jan 2013 #113

1. I believe that much of the lost revenue in the 250K-400K bracket... Barack_America Jan 2013 #120

Silly.... humbled_opinion Jan 2013 #159

Rome all over again, 4_TN_TITANS Jan 2013 #114

I Agree Fully With Your Sentiments About DU of Late Indykatie Jan 2013 #115

DU has a "loony left" rep. Barack_America Jan 2013 #207

This is an okay stopgap... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #116

Speaking of not understanding how politics work... Chathamization Jan 2013 #118

totally agree. tnvoter Jan 2013 #119

That's a six hundred billion dollar difference and with the plethoro Jan 2013 #122

There are still cuts in deductions creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #245

Until we scrape the last vestiges of these buffoons from our shoes... randome Jan 2013 #126

Republicans got everything they wanted 4dsc Jan 2013 #128

or being a fraud fascisthunter Jan 2013 #135

bitch bitch bitch LW1977 Jan 2013 #137

If they got everything they wanted, why are they so miserable? Chorophyll Jan 2013 #147

Obama never was a "liberal". billy_j Jan 2013 #260

This message was self-deleted by its author Chorophyll Jan 2013 #283

I guess you missed the smirks. Eddie Haskell Jan 2013 #321

They're not miserable in the least. FiveGoodMen Jan 2013 #329

That explains the revolt amongst House Republicans. Barack_America Jan 2013 #170

Another fact- free rant on courage and leadership geek tragedy Jan 2013 #213

Sorry for not drinking the kool-aid harun Jan 2013 #132

NO CUTS FOR BIG WAR. Bad idea. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #134

That's the big one for me. The neglect to cut military spending is plethoro Jan 2013 #146

No spending cuts on anything, but the squestor for defense is still there grantcart Jan 2013 #152

I have not seen that, do you have a link? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #179

i usually pore over DU and read so much every day barbtries Jan 2013 #138

You are so spot on brush Jan 2013 #141

Same Shit, Different Day WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #151

+ a million quinnox Jan 2013 #168

Exactly! WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #172

And you better vote next year for the DINOs, or it's all your fault! Doctor_J Jan 2013 #202

I saw you complaining about the same thing yesterday creeksneakers2 Jan 2013 #249

MUAHAHAHA Doctor_J Jan 2013 #306

CORRECT Skittles Jan 2013 #204

The good ol' days of 2010? Barack_America Jan 2013 #210

I am always amused by the whining about "name calling" from those who can't Number23 Jan 2013 #225

+1000000000000 dionysus Jan 2013 #326

It's not what I would have wanted either. DissidentVoice Jan 2013 #156

+ 1 billion - no flame from me! abbeyco Jan 2013 #157

I agree with you. Many DUers are naive about the political process. Politicub Jan 2013 #160

I think this deal was Senate Republicans washing their hands of House R's. Barack_America Jan 2013 #169

Yes!! And hopefully the new congress will be Politicub Jan 2013 #314

Agree get the red out Jan 2013 #162

Yes. elleng Jan 2013 #166

my my, another "lefty fringe", blah blah,blah post stupidicus Jan 2013 #171

Way to think more than two minutes into the future. aandegoons Jan 2013 #173

Hell Eisenhower would have been considered ''extremist left'' these days. YOHABLO Jan 2013 #176

We have no idea how to deal with leadership. We are great at opposition. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #178

It's really kind of amusing, I'm one of the harsher Obama critics here although I don't do OPs much Fumesucker Jan 2013 #197

COMPROMISE raindaddy Jan 2013 #180

Not too bad a deal JEB Jan 2013 #181

I agree that DU has gone over a cliff... ReRe Jan 2013 #185

+1 Barack_America Jan 2013 #186

"We're all Democrats, are we not?" CheapShotArtist Jan 2013 #254

I know... ReRe Jan 2013 #317

People are mostly going to focus on the payroll tax hike. alarimer Jan 2013 #191

Payroll tax holiday ends ==> "OBAMA RAISED MY TAXES!!!1!1!!1!" bullwinkle428 Jan 2013 #232

yeah... Reich to the contrary, $400k is okay paulkienitz Jan 2013 #194

I see I got banned LW1977 Jan 2013 #203

True that! DrewFlorida Jan 2013 #209

The $400,000 cap is not a problem to me. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #214

No flames here. I get how it works. We came out pretty good. Care Acutely Jan 2013 #218

TELL IT. Appreciation threads for blatant "with a capital B" trolls Number23 Jan 2013 #219

Wow...every 14 seconds??? WiffenPoof Jan 2013 #226

Actually, it sounds to me that there are plenty of people on this board who fit the profile Number23 Jan 2013 #228

Had a huge argument with Dad and brother who consider the president weak and a Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #224

I Wish I could Buy In Like That colsohlibgal Jan 2013 #233

+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Jan 2013 #234

Wow! I just joined a week ago Claybrains Jan 2013 #235

don't leave, most of DU is really great shireen Jan 2013 #239

Not going anywhere Claybrains Jan 2013 #246

DU is doing just fine, most of the time shireen Jan 2013 #236

What it amounts to JReed Jan 2013 #238

Thank you. nt woo me with science Jan 2013 #270

$1,000 less per year take home for my family yet... SHRED Jan 2013 #244

Many here agree with you! October Jan 2013 #251

I'm tired of posts like this MFrohike Jan 2013 #252

After four years of total, intransigent obstruction by the GOP King_Klonopin Jan 2013 #258

That clique would express only tepid support of the President if he... Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2013 #259

You nailed it. ENOUGH of the diatribes of the TeaLeftistNonReality wing. RBInMaine Jan 2013 #262

You are correct, what I have noticed on this site is that oldbanjo Jan 2013 #263

Lock step Jim Warren Jan 2013 #265

what lockstep? cali Jan 2013 #268

Artist Jim Warren ? Trajan Jan 2013 #271

Been called that Jim Warren Jan 2013 #272

This message was self-deleted by its author Trajan Jan 2013 #276

I agree with the OP completely Shilo Jan 2013 #267

Not many lefties left. aandegoons Jan 2013 #269

We have a lot of DLC'rs and PNAC'rs who don't know the difference between harun Jan 2013 #274

FDR and the New Deal are the touch point of the Democratic party. If you cannot own that you Ford_Prefect Jan 2013 #275

And President Obama is about taking care of the whole of America graham4anything Jan 2013 #280

+1 leftstreet Jan 2013 #303

I've realized that Democrats need both Union Scribe Jan 2013 #281

Compromise mgardener Jan 2013 #284

I just joined this site a few days ago timesamillion Jan 2013 #286

Not a flame (hopefully) EuroStyleSocialist Jan 2013 #292

What he said! Ford_Prefect Jan 2013 #295

K & R Scurrilous Jan 2013 #294

No flames from me. I am SICK of the whining rivegauche Jan 2013 #296

Yup ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #297

When the deal was announced and WeekendWarrior Jan 2013 #300

Yep. Phentex Jan 2013 #304

Okay. LWolf Jan 2013 #305

Don't be so hard own your DU sisters and brothers HoosierRadical Jan 2013 #307

When you read between the lines, the only criticism is "Not enough of the people we wanted taxed got stevenleser Jan 2013 #308

Those Outraged Have Almost Certainly Never Negotiated Anything of Significance in Their Entire Lives Skraxx Jan 2013 #309

Excellent, excellent, excellent...sorry I read this after so many responses... George II Jan 2013 #310

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #320

Harry Reid Threw Obama Fiscal Cliff Proposal Into Burning Fireplace stonecutter357 Jan 2013 #322

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #328

Excellent post Bobbie Jo Jan 2013 #323

30 years later, Detroit is still finding reality? saidsimplesimon Jan 2013 #324

It's puzzling; "Leftie" rhetoric reads like iisolation is more important that any degree of success. patrice Jan 2013 #325

You are a stronger person then me. NightOwwl Jan 2013 #331

Its not a tax hike, its a massive tax cut... shaayecanaan Jan 2013 #333

As the recs tell you, you are wrong. Nothing wrong with DU. Rex Jan 2013 #335