General Discussion

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)

101. Where do we draw the line?

Wed Jan 2, 2013, 06:54 AM

Jan 2013

I see a lot of people shouting freedom of speech and freedom of expression. This is a school ... and there are rules. I wonder what people would think if a student wrote a poem calling gay people faggots or black people niggers and other hateful language - would that just be free expression?

I'm not saying I agree with suspending her ... but there is a disconnect here because I know DUers would not put up with the free expression of hate speech. When I was in school, I could not wear a shirt that had FUCK written on it and if I did, I would have been told to change or leave the premise and I went to a public school.

Is there something awful here? Probably not. But that doesn't mean you ignore situations like that and certainly her freedom of expression is limited in a schoolhouse and it always will be because that's just how it is. And I think we can all agree, for safety and comfort, it's not a bad thing. We want students to feel safe and comfortable in school and that doesn't happen if we allow every single person to show their free expression because as we've seen, that includes opinions that aren't widely popular.

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SF student suspended over Connecticut poem (about school shooter) [View all] alp227 Dec 2012 OP

Because, of course... regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #1

Yes, it would be a horrible thing if anyone tried to understand how this happened, or to try to talk Brickbat Dec 2012 #2

What means "discovered?" immoderate Dec 2012 #3

I had a spiral notebook that I used for science class WolverineDG Dec 2012 #28

So -- did you get extra credit? immoderate Jan 2013 #33

The teacher left a note WolverineDG Jan 2013 #42

Gotcha! immoderate Jan 2013 #49

Wrong...! regnaD kciN Jan 2013 #78

School is indeed about conformity. kentauros Jan 2013 #110

The thought police at it again Angry Dragon Dec 2012 #4

I'm an English teacher, and I'm appalled. knitter4democracy Dec 2012 #5

I wrote some seriously dark and disturbed poetry... a la izquierda Dec 2012 #24

That's what we're supposed to do. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #39

*Rejection* rather than dealing with it Last Stand Jan 2013 #44

Suppression of free speech is as American as cherry pie. - n/t coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #82

Really? She "knows why" he pointed a semi-automatic weapon at 6 year old kids & pulled the trigger? Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #6

Yeah let's just toss aside freedom of expression davidn3600 Dec 2012 #7

Yeah! ...Or, we could just dance around a giant fucking straw man made of red herrings. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #8

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ 11 Bravo Dec 2012 #9

All this without having read the poem. Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #11

Ohhhhh, Heavens, the outrage. The unfair-ittyness of it all. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #16

It is a charter school. I have no clue how they run their business. Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #20

I think she maybe could benefit from some empathy classes, and/or psychotherapy Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #21

Again, you haven't read the poem. You haven't a clue whether or not empathy was Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #23

Given what I've seen of the poem, she doesn't have a clue as to what this tragedy was about. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #25

Link to the poem? Even my friends on the school board haven't seen it. Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #26

They should try using teh google. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #27

Can we see the entire poem or is that the only part that NBC will allow us to see? Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #29

Yes, I'm sure it's a MASSIVE media conspiracy. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #30

So, you are not interested in seeing the entire poem? Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #32

by the "populous", do you mean the "populace"? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #35

Why yes, I did mean populace. I blame it on the bourbon... Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #62

Keep kickin the thread. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #64

And there it is. I said my friends hadn't seen it. I didn't say no one had seen it. Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #68

Weren't you the one, back in October, starting threads about a certain site admin's mom Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #69

Good luck finding any post from me that advocates or supports Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #75

OK, Here's the hidden thread. You also characterized it as a word whose use causes Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #83

No. An anonymous person scrawling a well-known anti-woman slur on my house Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #89

...She's NOT being "censored", and I've said I don't think expulsion is warranted here. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #90

You are making two assumptions that are incorrect... Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #97

I am about as anti-censorship as they come; still one ought to be sensitive to the fact Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #98

So what? Lots of people are pissed off at the government davidn3600 Dec 2012 #31

I read one line: "I understand the killings... I know why he pulled the trigger" Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #13

She could have said 50 other sentences that might have put it in context... Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #15

Maybe. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #18

No, she can't. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #41

I think you would find that schools have an awful lot of latitutude to determine, one, Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #52

And the courts will overrule that and slam the tax payers with quite a bill. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #53

We'll see, won't we, then. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #54

We will see. I'm betting she doesn't get expelled and the suspension is lifted. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #55

I'm not betting either way. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #56

But that just focuses on the content of her speech. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #58

So fucking what? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #59

First of all BarackTheVote Jan 2013 #73

There is also a difference between "trying to" understand and stating flat out "i understand" Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #86

"understanding" is quite often the reult of genuine "trying to understand" BarackTheVote Jan 2013 #102

... SammyWinstonJack Dec 2012 #22

That was a bullshit ruling white_wolf Jan 2013 #38

Where do we draw the line? Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #37

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #99

How many rhymes were there ellie Dec 2012 #10

It's about alienation! From Society, maaaaaan! Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #14

"and in the end... I blame society!" Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #17

Consider the ratio of imaginary murderers to real murderers. immoderate Jan 2013 #36

People should be troubled nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #19

I am not sure this should have resulted in a suspension JanMichael Jan 2013 #34

That school is about to take a serious ass wooping. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #40

Sounds like an automatic visit to the school psychologist, but aikoaiko Jan 2013 #43

Of course, if the teacher had just graded the work and then that student did something awful hughee99 Jan 2013 #45

It wasn't an assignment in the first place. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2013 #50

Here is a different poem. One which produced a different outcome: KurtNYC Jan 2013 #46

Love that song. Has a sound like nothing else. BarackTheVote Jan 2013 #81

I think we perpetually "solve" the wrong problem KurtNYC Jan 2013 #106

politically correct SCHOOLS? sheesh. blargh. san fran? ugh. i'm embarressed 2 be liberal... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #47

"I know why he pulled the triger" (her spelling) Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #60

not really, its called a poem...what does spelling have to do with anything? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #61

Eh. She's no Dylan Thomas. And, she's in High School. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #63

yeah, she seems really dangerous... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #66

And how is anyone supposed to determine that the psycho kid is 'disturbed'? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #67

by talking to them? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #74

I haven't said I think she's a "psycho", have I? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #85

you seem to be implying something here- farminator3000 Jan 2013 #87

Yes. If you dont eat your meat, you cant have any pudding. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #88

Any time anyone threatens your artistic liberties BarackTheVote Jan 2013 #80

Good luck. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #84

Did you NEVER write a poem when you were a teenager? Chorophyll Jan 2013 #103

Does not validate suspension TXDem72 Jan 2013 #92

That wasn't my question. My question was whether that person saw a problem with the statement. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #93

I guess I must have spent the years 1979 - 1986 crying for help then. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #104

maybe another student found it and told their parents? kinda sounds like police involved? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #48

I thought the teacher was snooping. Mdterp01 Jan 2013 #51

If a folder's left in my room, I look inside to see whose it is. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #72

People write dark poetry. Life can be very dark. It's good for people to have an outlet. Puregonzo1188 Jan 2013 #57

And if a kid does kill themselves/others after their "dark poetry" was found by teachers KittyWampus Jan 2013 #65

That's my take, too. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #70

It's the teacher's job to touch base with the student. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #71

yeah because if someone's emotionally disturbed, the best thing is to institutionall ruin their life unblock Jan 2013 #76

The "thought police" are out full time! Often I wonder if the McCarthy era will return. n/t RKP5637 Jan 2013 #77

Sounds to me like the teacher was doing CYA and offloading it onto the RKP5637 Jan 2013 #79

A suspension over this is unconstitutional and stupid TXDem72 Jan 2013 #91

I think suppressing "bong hits 4 Jesus" was worse, personally. Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #94

WE NEED ARMED GUARDS AT EVERY POETRY SLAM!!!! Taverner Jan 2013 #95

Poetry Slam? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #100

Their response doesn't address the issue ecstatic Jan 2013 #96

I would say the chance she's being idiot outweighs the chance that she's a sociopath by A LOT. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #105

I agree. I remember writing an awful one ecstatic Jan 2013 #107

I just wrote horrendous stuff all the time. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #108

This is the kid who wrote the poem... Chorophyll Jan 2013 #109

So very wrong. knitter4democracy Jan 2013 #112

so it is real damn obvious that any cries for help will be punnished at that school dembotoz Jan 2013 #111