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grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 02:16 PM Jan 2013

FAIL. Obama LOWERED Capital Gains Tax from 40% to 20%! [View all]

Last edited Thu Jan 3, 2013, 07:55 PM - Edit history (6)

Yes, it's a big win for the the ultra rich, who don't make money from earned income, but rather from what used to be called unearned income (http://bit.ly/131hXjd).

Capital gains are unearned income (this is the way most multimillionaires and billionaires get their money, they don't work for it).

So while a policeman may put his life on the line every day and have to pay 30% in taxes, some non-working trust fund baby who risks nothing except some money, will only have to pay 20%.

How did this happen?

When the Bush tax cuts expired on DEC 13, 2012 at midnight, the UNEARNED INCOME TAX (Capital Gains) WENT UP TO 39.5%!!! http://bit.ly/Rv5elj

But, when the "Grand Bamboozle" (fiscal cliff deal) was reached, those tax rates went back down from 39.5% to 20%. How is that fair?

Oh, and there's more presents for those who make unearned income:



Why do wealthy folks celebrate the Fiscal Gorge? Just this: If you’re Sheldon Adelson you really couldn’t care less about ordinary income. What matters most are estate taxes, dividend taxes, and capital gains taxes. Adelson makes $1 million a year in ordinary income, now taxed at a higher rate. No big deal. He makes billions of dollars in dividends and capital gains, now permanently taxed at 15% and 20% respectively. Now that’s a big deal. Now that’s cool.

Did you notice what happened to those taxes?

Estate Tax: The estate tax exemption rises to $5 million, up from the $1 million it would have been without a Fiscal Cliff deal, and up from $675K when George W. Bush came into office. The tax rate on inheritance locks in at 40%, down from 55% at the beginning of the Bush Administration. Throughout the Bush administration the estate tax exemption stepped up each year or two, and the estate tax rate stepped down every year or two. Under the Obama administration, with the new Fiscal Gorge law passed, the W. Bush-era generous estate tax rates become permanent. Richie Rich is so happy.

Dividends Tax: If you were Sheldon Adelson – which you are not, but let’s pretend you were – right now you would be celebrating a Happy New Year because you just took a special dividend payout in December 2012 from Sands Casino of an estimated $1.2 Billion, based on your ownership of 431.5 million shares and a declared dividend of $2.75 per share. Adelson took the dividend in December fearing that his 15% dividend tax rate might rise to something like the 35% or 39.5% ordinary income tax rates, which would cost him close to $300 million in additional taxes in 2012. He needn’t have worried. The Fiscal Gorge law makes a 15% dividend tax rate permanent, a pillar of the Bush administration’s tax cuts.

Capital Gains Tax – This tax rises from 15% to 20% under the Fiscal Gorge law. Given that top earners and top wealth holders benefit substantially from capital gains, the permanence of this change represents another victory for Bush-era tax cuts.

Read more: http://www.bankers-anonymous.com/blog/the-view-from-the-fiscal-gorge/#ixzz2Gw4zxOfK




At least, that's the way I'm understanding it. Am I wrong? Looks like a bad deal to me based on this data. Oh yeah, and the fact that Big War has been spared from any cuts even though it's 60-70% of our budget.


ON EDIT: Here it is from a reliable source, WaPo:

"5. Capital gains and dividends would be taxed at 20 percent for families with income above $450,000—a concession to Republicans: Boehner and Obama had already agreed to let taxes on capital gains rise from 15 to 20 percent weeks earlier for high-income Americans. Setting the dividend tax rate at 20 percent, however, is a significant concession to Republicans: Obama, in his most recent budget, proposed taxing dividends like ordinary income, with a top rate of 39.6 percent, as it’s scheduled to revert to after Dec. 31."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/31/five-facts-about-the-biden-mcconnell-deal/

Now they are calling it the 'dividend tax rate' and not 'capital gains' so there may be some distinction there....

Then there is this from Forbes:

"Capital gain rates are set to increase from 15% to ordinary income tax rates as high as 43.4% if you are in the top tax bracket and factor in the new Medicare tax on unearned income." http://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2012/12/10/fiscal-cliff-strategy-3-tips-for-investors-as-rising-taxes-loom/

And Egalitarian Thug posted a great link to the Tax Foundation that showed the rate at 39.6%: http://taxfoundation.org/article/federal-capital-gains-tax-rates-1988-2011




So there you have it, SHORT TERM capital gains went from 39.6% or 43.5% to 20 percent, yes, that is a FAIL in my book.

EDIT 2: I think I might have to eat a little crow here - it is looking like I like I should have included the words "SHORT TERM" before the words "capital gains" in my OP. But mind you, much, if not most, of the money made these days by the uber-rich is in short term capital gains, as exampled by high-frequency trading in which stocks are held for less than a second.
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The capital gains was 15% and went up to 20% BumRushDaShow Jan 2013 #1
The short-term rate ProSense Jan 2013 #7
not according to this: HiPointDem Jan 2013 #22
Do you have a link for that? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #35
LOL! ProSense Jan 2013 #61
Isn't the lower rate on the first $250K of capital gains? kentuck Jan 2013 #80
Do you have a link to that data other than one of your own posts, like from the CBO, or the grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #85
They are right. The Capital Gains rate used to be 25%. The rate was decreased to 20% bluestate10 Jan 2013 #128
Obama said the rich would go back to the "Clinton rates" BlueStreak Jan 2013 #19
You say: truedelphi Jan 2013 #94
Case in point, right out of today's news BlueStreak Jan 2013 #110
What very sad news. truedelphi Jan 2013 #144
What it appears is that when the "Budget Control Act of 2011" went into effect at Midnight on the grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #38
Capital gains is ProSense Jan 2013 #2
Has anyone made the comparison of the deal vs. no deal? nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #17
"No deal" would have raised more taxes and resulted in a more progressive tax system. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #24
That makes no sense. ProSense Jan 2013 #26
Yes, it does. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #31
Nonsense. ProSense Jan 2013 #36
Just because you say it's nonsense doesn't make it so. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #39
That chart doesn't prove your point. ProSense Jan 2013 #41
Your two-sentence responses aren't doing very much to further your position or this discussion. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #45
You think it is a good idea that the average middle class family would pay $2000 more in taxes per stevenleser Jan 2013 #50
Ouch. Good one, Steve! SunSeeker Jan 2013 #54
This message was self-deleted by its author rhett o rick Jan 2013 #147
If simply paying more taxes than you were before means a deal is not progressive... W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #55
Hurting the middle class so we can also hurt the wealthy at the same time is not Progressivism stevenleser Jan 2013 #56
Exactly. And I think some who claim to be progressive are really just vindictive towards wealth. phleshdef Jan 2013 #59
It's not about "hurting" anyone. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #62
The payroll tax holiday was a temporary stimulus measure and has zero to do with a progressive code. phleshdef Jan 2013 #78
The Bush tax cuts were supposed to be temporary, too. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #97
He was explaining a progressive tax structure (http://bit.ly/Un4onH) grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #96
No one wants to "hurt poor and/or middle class people" and for you to suggest that rhett o rick Jan 2013 #146
It's not intellectually dishonest, it's right on point considering the feedback here. We won this stevenleser Jan 2013 #149
No cuts in SS is not a victory. This is a good example of where some Democrats are today. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #150
Wrong. The payroll tax cut as a long term tax cut would harm solvency of Social Security. phleshdef Jan 2013 #58
Eliminating the payroll tax holiday... W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #65
Yes. If it is phased back in with triggers based on the unemployment rate BlueStreak Jan 2013 #63
How was it "less than half as much" as Obama was going for? phleshdef Jan 2013 #79
Obama was going for $1,600,000,000,000 of revenue -- "compromised" on about 1/3 that much BlueStreak Jan 2013 #81
I'm done at the word "backbone". Its being overused by a bunch of keyboard warriors.... phleshdef Jan 2013 #83
That was the NY Times using that phrase, not me. BlueStreak Jan 2013 #92
And? phleshdef Jan 2013 #111
Makes perfect sense. Tax would have been raised on the middle class but rhett o rick Jan 2013 #148
+1 Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #32
It would have raised more revenue, but would have been more regressive jeff47 Jan 2013 #42
You are completely wrong. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #46
Apparently, you can't read your own chart jeff47 Jan 2013 #77
Please don't accuse me of not being able to understand something... W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #95
Repeating the same errors doesn't make them true. jeff47 Jan 2013 #99
Well, that's the first thing I'll agree with you on: the title of your post. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #123
You're still not bothering to find out what's actually in the deal jeff47 Jan 2013 #142
Thats also what I am curious about NoOneMan Jan 2013 #25
I don't know the exact numbers, but that's probably true. W_HAMILTON Jan 2013 #34
Yes, I noticed that NoOneMan Jan 2013 #40
why do you need to manipulate the facts to make your point? MjolnirTime Jan 2013 #3
It went up significantly less than it would have had nothing been done. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #69
You are wrong about the Capital Gains tax, it would not have been raised had Obama bluestate10 Jan 2013 #132
OK fine, I'm tired of arguing minutiae. That still doesn't change the fact that overall revenues Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #137
No 'fail;' you are wrong. elleng Jan 2013 #4
The question is not this year vs last year, but deal vs no deal. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #43
You're wrong, and ProSense Jan 2013 #47
That's not correct. I think maybe some of the confusion pnwmom Jan 2013 #66
So you're saying the short term capital gain went from 39.6% to 20%, grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #100
No, short term gains are still taxed as normal income jeff47 Jan 2013 #106
Right. And that is a big change for dividends. n/t pnwmom Jan 2013 #109
No, that's not I'm saying -- or, really, Bloomberg. pnwmom Jan 2013 #108
20%, instead of 40%. It was supposed to go to 40%. All that revenue was just given to the rich. robinlynne Jan 2013 #127
No it wasn't. bluestate10 Jan 2013 #134
Actually, the max. CG rate HAS been at or above 40% spooky3 Jan 2013 #141
"Bankers Anonymous"? Tarheel_Dem Jan 2013 #5
That's exactly what I said: tosh Jan 2013 #27
how come all the graham's on DU have OP that fail? snooper2 Jan 2013 #6
They're all crackers. Ikonoklast Jan 2013 #8
my name is bob and while not mean i do get easily irritated leftyohiolib Jan 2013 #9
My uncle Bob always said his name was short for Back Off, Bud. DFab420 Jan 2013 #15
You Better Believe It!! nt msanthrope Jan 2013 #13
Blast from the past!!! LOL! JoePhilly Jan 2013 #82
Wrong Cali_Democrat Jan 2013 #10
This is the sort of OP that makes me wish we still had an "unrec" button... regnaD kciN Jan 2013 #11
You Better Believe It!! nt msanthrope Jan 2013 #12
op fail bigtree Jan 2013 #14
I'm beginning to find people who invent silly names like The Grand Bamboozle for important issues.. DFab420 Jan 2013 #16
You should be more concerned about the lie in "Fiscal Cliff" JackRiddler Jan 2013 #88
I stand with you on that one, Jack! n/t truedelphi Jan 2013 #93
How 'bout "Grand Bargain"? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #101
Um.. the FAIL is all on you. HappyMe Jan 2013 #18
Capital Gains Taxes Applies to Folks Selling Their Homes to Pay Their Retirement Yavin4 Jan 2013 #20
If you roll the proceeds into any approved retirement account all the taxes are deferred. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #71
I don't think this is correct. Do you have a link? spooky3 Jan 2013 #87
And real estate proceeds. When the accounting pro comes home I'll double check. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #91
I thought the capital gain on a home is forgiven ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #76
The first $250k of gains is tax free spooky3 Jan 2013 #89
I didn't know that, thanks JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #135
There is a chapter in Al Frankens book about what you are doing Renew Deal Jan 2013 #21
wow.. there's a lot of FAIL in this OP... try harder next time graham. dionysus Jan 2013 #23
This tax thing has only just started & BO is NO fool about what AMERICAN jobs look like. nt patrice Jan 2013 #28
President Obama raised the capital gains tax. Another anti-President Obama slant. graham4anything Jan 2013 #29
Capital gains and dividends should be taxed at the exact same rate as income nt abelenkpe Jan 2013 #30
What part of, "The Right is lining up DROOOLING at the chops for 2016 already" don't you get????? patrice Jan 2013 #33
Republicans won't rest until BHO's tax cuts for the most affluent have been paid for indepat Jan 2013 #37
Funniest thread all week! tjwash Jan 2013 #44
You didn't make it clear that those would have been the rates had we stepped off the fiscal curb. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #48
No, they would not have been the rates. The entire thing is false. ProSense Jan 2013 #51
No deal, the cuts expired. That is completely documented. You can pretend otherwise all you Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #57
It expired? What the hell does that have to do with the fact that the rate was never 40 percent? n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #60
Which rate are you talking about? Here's another sheet from FactCheck Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #68
1999-2000, long-term rates were 20 percent and short-term rates were 39.6 percent ProSense Jan 2013 #72
You link to your post which links to 3 more of your posts, none of which says Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #74
The information is from your second link. ProSense Jan 2013 #86
Yes. The short term capital gains rate was 39.6%. So what about it? The 4/10ths? Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #90
You clearly don't ProSense Jan 2013 #105
You have yet to show one single fact in this whole thread, as I pointed out. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #129
Short-term capital gains are still taxed as regular income jeff47 Jan 2013 #107
See post 87. eom RomneyLies Jan 2013 #49
i thought it went from 15 to 20% samsingh Jan 2013 #52
Here's the thing, at midnight on the 31st, short term capital gains went up to 39.6%, grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #102
You are ridiculously wrong ProSense Jan 2013 #103
Link? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #118
At least it went up at all. Neon2012 Jan 2013 #53
Bloomberg reports Bush lowered long term capital gains tax from 20 to 15. Obama restored it to 20. pnwmom Jan 2013 #64
Totally wrong. budkin Jan 2013 #67
Where is the unrec button? Carnage251 Jan 2013 #70
Have a child, quickly demwing Jan 2013 #73
I understand. I'm not saying he is a total loser, just that this deal was not the best he could grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #116
They went up 5%. They need to go up another 40%. raouldukelives Jan 2013 #75
Wall street profits the most from short term capital gains rates being low. They were 39.6% just grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #114
FAIL. Rex Jan 2013 #84
DU used to have rules about intentionally misleading OPs. Is that all in the past? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #98
It's disingenuous ProSense Jan 2013 #104
No, it's true. Although I will admit I have learned from the discussion that it is SHORT TERM grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #113
Completely ProSense Jan 2013 #115
They were reduced, on midnight of DEC 31st, 2012, the grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #117
Learn to read. ProSense Jan 2013 #120
If you read further, it says grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #122
"I'd love for you to be right, just prove it to me!" ProSense Jan 2013 #124
I have not seen a link to the short term cap gains rate being taxed at 39.6% post deal. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #131
How ironic that you have the nerve to jump on this point. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #139
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #112
Bless your heart. DevonRex Jan 2013 #119
short term capital gains are taxed as ordinary income magical thyme Jan 2013 #121
You clearly don't understand what Capital Gains are. bluestate10 Jan 2013 #125
It was 15%, not 40% BlueDemKev Jan 2013 #126
The long term rate was reduced to 20 percent from 1997 to 2000. ProSense Jan 2013 #130
Okay, thanks for clarifying that. BlueDemKev Jan 2013 #133
FAIL. Adelson's estate is in the BILLIONS. The difference between ... 11 Bravo Jan 2013 #136
But the difference between 40% and 55% is $3.24 billion. You think he doesn't care about that? n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #138
What? I couldn't hear that. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #145
HELLO??? backscatter712 Jan 2013 #140
Yes, that change cost us 200 billion... grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #143
Capital gains The revenge Jan 2013 #151
This is an opportunity for state governments to impose higher taxes on those types of income. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #152
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