General Discussion

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

26. What does the 'intent' of an object have to do with the uses to which it's put?

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 12:06 PM

Jan 2013

Even assuming I buy the assumption that any particular gun was 'designed with the specific purpose of killing, injuring..' etc, which I don't..

From a public safety standpoint, the intent of the designer has no bearing on the discussion IMHO, merely the incidence of harm represented by the indicated means.

So please, enlighten me. Why does the "original intent" of any tool have any bearing on the relative safety of the tool? I would assert that if we’re going to talk purpose, it’s not the intended purpose of the original designer that is important, rather the purpose to which the tool is actually applied.

Then we can discuss the different purposes to which firearms are applied, and compare the relative incidence of usage, one purpose to another (use in crime vs self-defense vs target shooting) or incidence of one purpose of guns versus other tools for that same purpose (guns vs knives in crime).

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How to refute the more murders with hammers than rifles fiction that is sweeping right wing websites [View all] Mortos Jan 2013 OP

If they think a hammer is so lethal, maybe they should use THAT for protection. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #1

Excellent point! MsPithy Jan 2013 #65

I do believe DeLay is too busy at the present. BlueNoteSpecial Jan 2013 #66

excellent point samsingh Jan 2013 #77

I think the 8583 number is homicides...and doesn't include ~17000 gun suicides HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #2

Great point. pangaia Jan 2013 #4

I knew a guy who killed his sister pscot Jan 2013 #5

Thats freightening. pangaia Jan 2013 #98

I support a persons right to end their life. NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #16

Just trying to get toward an accurate number of gun deaths HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #43

Thank you. That was exactly my thought. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #3

What does the 'intent' of an object have to do with the uses to which it's put? X_Digger Jan 2013 #26

It goes to why the object is purchased. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #40

Do they still sell telepsychology degrees on the internet? X_Digger Jan 2013 #47

It's a pretty easy correlation, actually. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #80

If we go with 80,000,000 gun owners, it becomes 99.5%.. X_Digger Jan 2013 #81

If they are actually shooting their gun at any place other than a range.... Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #82

Target practice and recreational shooting = "preparing to injure or kill"?!? X_Digger Jan 2013 #83

How frequently do you see these? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #85

Are the olympians similarly "preparing to kill and injure"? LOL! X_Digger Jan 2013 #86

Yes, the millions of Olympic sharpshooters that we have in this country. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #88

The last gun I bought, was for IPSC competition. X_Digger Jan 2013 #89

And that's the only gun you have? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #91

I don't hunt (like 80% of gun owners.) X_Digger Jan 2013 #93

ISSF or ISPC? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #94

IPSC (pistol), postage match with a few friends who don't live close anymore.. X_Digger Jan 2013 #97

ha, ha... tm52 Feb 2013 #113

I think saying that a gun is "designed" to kill is a flawed argument... lastlib Jan 2013 #45

So if the purpose of a gun is not to kill, then what is it? I know AR's are really designed for Erose999 Jan 2013 #63

equivalency Soft Tips Jan 2013 #46

Using what? nt Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #48

People have been killing eachother since the dawn of time Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #61

I did some further research Mortos Jan 2013 #6

I would also be interested in knowing the number of people Heidi Jan 2013 #8

The gun wackos should demonstrate on themselves. LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #14

Well, I don't want to see anyone get hurt, Heidi Jan 2013 #21

Or how many shoot themselves while totally hammered nt Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #101

Here is something from the fbi Mojorabbit Jan 2013 #62

Kick. Heidi Jan 2013 #7

Its fair to reframe the argument away from the rifles-hammers comparison but its not fiction. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #9

Then you go to the families in Sandy Hook Savannahmann Jan 2013 #12

You apparently read a lot more into my post than actually written. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #20

Oh, Come On. Paladin Jan 2013 #51

Yep, I wish I had been able to say it so succinctly... JoeBlowToo Jan 2013 #59

One of the things that I never hear from anti-RKBA advocates is... aikoaiko Jan 2013 #67

Some 'esoteric detail', eh? X_Digger Jan 2013 #68

They are designed to do one thing. Savannahmann Jan 2013 #87

By that standard nearly all civilian firearms are variations of military firearms. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #90

Factually incorrect bmelton Mar 2014 #120

Do you have any data on nail guns? (nt) Heidi Jan 2013 #23

I do not. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #28

So it's not really a fiction, you just don't like the comparison, eh? X_Digger Jan 2013 #10

Since blunt objects are so effective, maybe people should use those for home defense. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #15

Effective for murder = effective for defense? Your logic, it has a sad. n/t X_Digger Jan 2013 #18

Isn't getting killed a fear that a bugler might have? JoePhilly Jan 2013 #24

Yes, if he bugles at 5am outside my house. X_Digger Jan 2013 #30

So your point is that guns provide a more effective weapon when one's goal is to JoePhilly Jan 2013 #33

Guns are more useful in defending oneself than blunt objects. X_Digger Jan 2013 #36

Unless that assult weapon is in your house. Then your risk of death by such a JoePhilly Jan 2013 #39

You appear to re-qualify in mid-stream... LanternWaste Jan 2013 #99

Two sentences, two thoughts. X_Digger Jan 2013 #100

What weapon will a burglar be more likely to have - a gun or a hammer? hack89 Jan 2013 #32

So regardless of the data the RW presents, the weapon of choice for JoePhilly Jan 2013 #70

The weapon of choice for self defense is a gun - there, I fixed it for you. nt hack89 Jan 2013 #74

Why would I use a hammer to incapacitate some one when a gun allows JoePhilly Jan 2013 #75

I am only concerned with protecting myself from that guy with the blunt object hack89 Jan 2013 #79

Said the National Blunt Object Association? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #19

You likely have a blunt object within arm's reach. Ban blunt objects! X_Digger Jan 2013 #22

What is this blunt object of which you speak? nt Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #29

Many fine stores near you.... PavePusher Jan 2013 #103

I looked on those websites. None of them sold any product called a Blunt Object. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #105

All squares are rectangles. Not all rectangles are squares. krispos42 Jan 2013 #11

I would compare it to oil rigs, though. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #37

Hmmm, rrneck Jan 2013 #13

It certainly points out why an AWB will not make America safer hack89 Jan 2013 #17

Technically the 9mm used at Virginia Tech fell within the constrains of the old AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #69

Apparently, they do not need guns to protect themselves from criminals. They need it for arguments. ieoeja Jan 2013 #25

If they're going to break down the total murders by guns, into various types, like rifles, then sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #27

OK. Then compare it to bare hands and feet Recursion Jan 2013 #41

What? Where's that individual weapon listed? That's classed with sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #50

726 for hands, fists, feet, etc. X_Digger Jan 2013 #57

That's multiples. Like 'firearms'. sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #72

blunt fact Soft Tips Jan 2013 #53

In other news... Turbineguy Jan 2013 #31

There are three hammers at my house and we've never been robbed!!!! JoePhilly Jan 2013 #35

I'd never actually counted them before Turbineguy Jan 2013 #42

Hammer nut! ;) X_Digger Jan 2013 #60

I didn't count my rubber mallet either. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #71

Does a Cresent wrench count? GreenTimer Oct 2014 #121

Ask them how often a blunt object is used in a murder suicide. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #34

OK, then compare rifles to bare hands and feet. Recursion Jan 2013 #38

It's not fiction, and it does raise a very good point sir pball Jan 2013 #44

It's this simple: You can run away from blunt objects and knives, LeftinOH Jan 2013 #49

Many people can't do any of that, but can use a gun defensively just fine. n/t PavePusher Jan 2013 #104

You don't need to go to RW websites to get read that meme. progressoid Jan 2013 #52

Gun huggers skew every available fact.. 99Forever Jan 2013 #54

About the same time that the Sandy Hook killings were happening, in China, a deranged bluestate10 Jan 2013 #55

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #56

Never argue wit fools bowens43 Jan 2013 #58

If only the people of Sandy Hook had had more hammers.... a John Henry armed with a 12lb. sledge in Erose999 Jan 2013 #64

Yes, anything can be used as a weapon Smilo Jan 2013 #73

the nra supports hammers over guns samsingh Jan 2013 #76

Screw the NRA and anybody who uses their talking points Hugabear Jan 2013 #78

So in order to refute it we ignore the fact Riftaxe Jan 2013 #84

A handgun and a semiauto rifle is a lot more similar.... Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #96

In what world? Riftaxe Jan 2013 #108

In reality. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #109

We should all demand guns stop killing people. ileus Jan 2013 #92

Yup. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #95

Why would you want to refute something that's true? tatertwat Jan 2013 #102

speaking of cherry picking booley Jan 2013 #107

Best troll name ever. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #110

thank you for this Scout Jan 2013 #106

Yeah, I wish I had it a few days ago. GoCubsGo Jan 2013 #111

What needs to be refuted exactly? Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2013 #112

FYI handmade34 Mar 2013 #114

This message was self-deleted by its author edwardebbs Mar 2013 #115

Thanks for info jinx1 Mar 2013 #116

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #117

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #118

Lies, damned lies and statistics. And FRP. eom uppityperson Feb 2014 #119

Death by spoon. rug Oct 2014 #122

It's not a rifle that I see. It is an automatic weapon Maraya1969 Oct 2015 #123