General Discussion

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)

127. Well said, bigtree

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 03:02 PM

Jan 2013

I appreciate your taking the time to clarify your intention. These threads get very emotional and it is difficult sometimes to keep a clear head.

Sadly, many of us who are rape victims know that the likelihood of justice is slim, even in the best of circumstances. When you add the corruption of football culture, even those small chances seem to disappear. I urge you to read more about this case to discover how systemic the rot is in Steubenville. It's not a nice place. This town has had a dark underbelly for decades.

I know Ohio football culture firsthand from having spent a great deal of time in a town about 25 miles south of Steubenville. When the only thing your town has is football, you fight like a cornered wolverine to protect it. Sometimes that doesn't go so well, as we are seeing here. And it is long past the time that these abuses are brought to light. Can you have football without the corruption? I will defer to better minds than mine on this question.

Peace to you, bigtree.

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"Some in the crowd, which would grow to close to 50 people, arrived with beer" [View all] Earth_First Jan 2013 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #1

Really? If everyone had waited for a court determination, Laurian Jan 2013 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #8

have you even read the long NYT mag piece that's linked in the OP? cali Jan 2013 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #17

..... cali Jan 2013 #25

YEP. Rex Jan 2013 #64

Short memory? MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #53

You said it very clearly. You also claim posters should show 'professionalism'. Are your posts here Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #185

Bigtree, I have been hanging around dog_lovin_dem Jan 2013 #209

No hard feelings, here. I've read your posts frequently and that's Laurian Jan 2013 #217

I think.... Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #221

I am not directly involved, but as a past victim of Laurian Jan 2013 #13

Damn straight! Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #49

boys behaved this way ... men in their lives tacitly taught them that this was how you treat women. seabeyond Jan 2013 #56

People seem to have a hard time understanding Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #137

thank you kelvin. this is a very good post and will say again. there is a freedom seabeyond Jan 2013 #139

Pure BS. n/t demmiblue Jan 2013 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #41

Well, kind of hard to ignore their own words Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #59

So, the videos MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #67

You should probably stop MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #72

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #80

lol MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #92

Ya know... MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #93

YEP. Earth_First Jan 2013 #102

You're not from around here, are you? lapislzi Jan 2013 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #126

Agreed Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #140

Shazam! n/t lapislzi Jan 2013 #119

Children?? You do know that Micheal Nodiano, from one of those tapes, is 18 years old. An adult. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #165

You smeared all of us! As "going nuts" over this. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #171

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #177

Well, I must say that that clears that up. yardwork Jan 2013 #192

I'm not going to alert on it (I presume someone else will). Its illustrative all on its own here. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #196

believe this bigtree Jan 2013 #200

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #197

I've read all your posts here. yardwork Jan 2013 #206

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #211

I think that everybody is very upset about this case. yardwork Jan 2013 #214

you're getting swarmed bubba datasuspect Jan 2013 #213

Nobody called HIM an ignorant jackass Tsiyu Jan 2013 #219

He's using common techniques designed to shut down discussion of rape, rape culture and more. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #220

we saw a video, we saw pictures, we heard the words out of the boys mouth. seabeyond Jan 2013 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #46

Come on, bigtree, you just need to move past her bullshit. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #91

It is incredible to me how often we see you wilfully misconstrue a persons comments cleanhippie Jan 2013 #84

"a little professionalism and less sensationalism would seem to be more productive..." cleanhippie Jan 2013 #81

This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Jan 2013 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #101

there have been a SMALL handful of men that have done this and you are right.... seabeyond Jan 2013 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #111

lol... hugzz, i hear ya. leaving you alone. there is much more in this thread we are discussing seabeyond Jan 2013 #114

Nope. You done good. Saboburns Jan 2013 #129

this is really offensive. very offensive when we hear a girl unconscious gang raped and have our seabeyond Jan 2013 #141

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #145

Poor, poor you Tsiyu Jan 2013 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #152

Stop? Really? You've posted on this thread 5 x what I have Tsiyu Jan 2013 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #159

Twist what knife? Again - YOU are the victim? Tsiyu Jan 2013 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #163

I was not aware that I was on your back Tsiyu Jan 2013 #170

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #176

Bullying would be trying to force someone off the thread Tsiyu Jan 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #190

You don't think anything you've said in this thread has been offensive? yardwork Jan 2013 #193

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #198

"You're not the boss of me!" Tsiyu Jan 2013 #194

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #199

Then why do you keep responding to my posts? Tsiyu Jan 2013 #202

here, let me take care of that replying thing bigtree Jan 2013 #203

There is far too much infighting going on in this thread. randome Jan 2013 #204

Huh? Tsiyu Jan 2013 #207

How do you respect yourself knowing that you make shit up in every post? cleanhippie Jan 2013 #104

history of posts with certain posters. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #108

More incoherence. cleanhippie Jan 2013 #109

The poster you defend - bigtree - claimed this was a "standard" teen party Tsiyu Jan 2013 #150

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #153

lol Tsiyu Jan 2013 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #162

We all gotta do what we gotta do Tsiyu Jan 2013 #166

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #174

I never trashed you Tsiyu Jan 2013 #179

No worries, bigtree. polly7 Jan 2013 #168

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #178

Hey, we've all done that! No crime there. And most of us don't have the grace to admit it. nt. polly7 Jan 2013 #188

Inside the home of the high school football coach? Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #3

Absolutely. Earth_First Jan 2013 #5

Same here. Chan790 Jan 2013 #15

Not THE coach--A VOLUNTEER coach. nt tblue37 Jan 2013 #19

Not THE point.... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #23

Oh well then...thank goodness it wasn't someone in a position of authority! Earth_First Jan 2013 #27

In our district, they're held to the same standard as "faculty" coaches. Brickbat Jan 2013 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #6

It's not about the teens.... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #26

yes. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #32

You're making a false equivalence. lapislzi Jan 2013 #62

YEP. Rex Jan 2013 #68

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #69

You didn't say "mitigating." I did. lapislzi Jan 2013 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #103

Then what was the point of your post? lapislzi Jan 2013 #117

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #123

Well said, bigtree lapislzi Jan 2013 #127

'A young woman's life was ruined.' That could be part of the problem there. randome Jan 2013 #134

I can't imagine it being otherwise, but I'll concede the point. lapislzi Jan 2013 #136

And I can't imagine what it would be like to be raped so I'm only conjecturing. randome Jan 2013 #147

You sure are Tsiyu Jan 2013 #154

can i hug you.... seabeyond Jan 2013 #156

I'm hugging you back Tsiyu Jan 2013 #158

Your anger is getting the better of you. randome Jan 2013 #164

You made the statement Tsiyu Jan 2013 #175

I said some people come through this better than others. randome Jan 2013 #187

I have to admit, I am STUNNED anyone could say that this girl's life may not be ruined. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #169

it is JUST sex. how can that ruin a girls life, be real. seabeyond Jan 2013 #172

That is not what I said. randome Jan 2013 #186

no. but reality is many men really do not want to think too deeply about this cause it is painful. seabeyond Jan 2013 #189

Deflection I understand. randome Jan 2013 #191

Amazing, isn't it? Tsiyu Jan 2013 #173

I do. 16 yrs old. I shudder when I read stuff like this. My girl is completely wild. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #201

Yes, the bully here has spoken up often Tsiyu Jan 2013 #205

This was at the home of a VOLUNTEER football coach.From what I can tell, Jenoch Jan 2013 #97

As a former VOLUNTEER football coach... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #112

This sound disturbingly akin to "boys will be boys" Earth_First Jan 2013 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #11

Yes, most teen parties involve both boys and girls cali Jan 2013 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #24

you don't seem to realize that knife wounds cali Jan 2013 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #35

I need you to know that no one in my school community thought of stabbings as a standard Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #180

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #195

Where did you happen to go to school? Earth_First Jan 2013 #33

Same here cali Jan 2013 #37

I now see that we are dealing with someone who has a very skewed sense of reality in this matter. demmiblue Jan 2013 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #54

right. everyone is misrepresenting what you said. sure. cali Jan 2013 #58

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #75

Well, after all it was just a "standard keg party" right...? Earth_First Jan 2013 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #107

YEP. Rex Jan 2013 #106

you'd also do better if you didn't misrepresent what I've said here demmiblue Jan 2013 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #52

I would encourage anyone with similar experiences to please chime in... Earth_First Jan 2013 #61

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #116

This is opretty much how it was growing up in Queens in the late 1980's and early 1990's alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #148

More than a few deaths, actually, is what bigtree said. Mariana Jan 2013 #124

an unconscious girl was dragged to 3 parties to be sexually assaulted. those FACTS are out. seabeyond Jan 2013 #22

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #30

and i really do not get your perspective either. a coach should not have booze, leave party seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

I read one of parties was at the home riverbendviewgal Jan 2013 #63

yes, further, the prosecutor, mother talked the raped girl and her parents to not take it further seabeyond Jan 2013 #73

Her behavior was absolutely inexcusable. amandabeech Jan 2013 #132

i hope they mean business, good to know. and like you say in previous posts seabeyond Jan 2013 #143

She needs to be removed from her post and prosecuted for obstructing justice. amandabeech Jan 2013 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #85

No one's "gobsmacked" by alcohol at a teen party, or that teens throw parties with alcohol. Brickbat Jan 2013 #36

No, dammit, I AM gobsmacked! lapislzi Jan 2013 #51

. Rex Jan 2013 #82

I don't think anyone is surprised by teens drinking alcohol at a party LanternWaste Jan 2013 #121

I Rex Jan 2013 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Jan 2013 #128

Not especially, no Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #9

Same for me, but I have a problem here. Chan790 Jan 2013 #10

The coach threatened the reporter and those close to her. amandabeech Jan 2013 #133

�You�re going to get yours. And if you don�t get yours, somebody close to you will.� Jamastiene Jan 2013 #208

Thanks Jama, that's the quote. Chan790 Jan 2013 #222

There's a big difference between a teen kegger in a cornfield or quarry and at a coach's house. Brickbat Jan 2013 #20

A kegger with the coach's blessing? Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #42

Then there's something radically wrong with the "standards." lapislzi Jan 2013 #44

I don't think anyone is 'shrugging their shoulders'. randome Jan 2013 #48

It's the adults' job to discourage, not encourage drinking. lapislzi Jan 2013 #55

I agree. I don't expect my daughters to ever get so plastered they don't know what's happening. randome Jan 2013 #71

but this girl was drugged. not drunk. and i havent had any issue with oldest. seabeyond Jan 2013 #79

Yeah. I know. Things never got that out of hand at the keggers I attended. randome Jan 2013 #86

agreed at the very least. but, what i gather in this instance is the men/adults were full particpant seabeyond Jan 2013 #89

There is a difference between getting drunk and being drugged. Jamastiene Jan 2013 #210

Right. I forgot about that. randome Jan 2013 #216

Funny never had parties where the coaches were there Rex Jan 2013 #66

my oldest has never gone to parties... not his style. yea. youngest much more social. BUT, IF seabeyond Jan 2013 #83

Can you believe how disingenuous some are here in this thread? Rex Jan 2013 #96

it is a hard one. though i know too many parents that do not seem to hold to the same expectation i seabeyond Jan 2013 #110

Good idea to keep an eye on the troublemakers Rex Jan 2013 #115

Have you seen the video made by one of the participants? yardwork Jan 2013 #70

And yet we are told to wait for all the facts... Rex Jan 2013 #77

I guess since these were not MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #135

same here, lucky I didn't die. With todays internet exposure those days are over. Sunlei Jan 2013 #78

were your keggers at the coach's house? nt TeamPooka Jan 2013 #118

Someone sounds guilty. GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #138

is this the guy that had child porn, camera in the girls bathroom? or the coach let kids view porn seabeyond Jan 2013 #7

Not the coach. A VOLUNTEER coach. tblue37 Jan 2013 #29

there are 19 fuckin coaches for this team. an assistant coach would supply booze, drugs and porn seabeyond Jan 2013 #39

seabeyond, I am not trying to minimize the responsibility--or the tblue37 Jan 2013 #98

i get you. the head coach has his own garbage. but, i have read about so many other adults that seabeyond Jan 2013 #113

Absolutely! nt tblue37 Jan 2013 #183

Hope all the parents "hosting" these parties are punished, in addition to the perps TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #21

I see a major civil suit Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #45

Agreed. TwilightGardener Jan 2013 #95

If any adults knew, they are in a lot of trouble. Sunlei Jan 2013 #38

As they should be. Earth_First Jan 2013 #40

I'm starting to think that a much smaller list would include those parents who didn't know. nt. OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #99

Big, fat, fucking irony. lapislzi Jan 2013 #47

that would awesome to send CNN riverbendviewgal Jan 2013 #76

I'll see if hub has a photo. He photographs everything. lapislzi Jan 2013 #122

Which intersection? Maybe we can grab a street view photo from Google maps n/t KurtNYC Jan 2013 #144

Intersection of Rtes 7 and I470 lapislzi Jan 2013 #151

As an Ohioan who works with children, A Brand New World Jan 2013 #65

That is sad, they could have been stopped Rex Jan 2013 #74

...another angle to this: a party with 50+ guests creates quite a scene Earth_First Jan 2013 #88

When it's one of the football coaches and star football players guess it's the old boys network... kerry-is-my-prez Jan 2013 #218

For anyone still confused about what this OP is about... TeeYiYi Jan 2013 #130

It's no wonder where those boys got the idea Kooljas Jan 2013 #131

Ahh the old video game, Rock and Roll excuse. trumad Jan 2013 #142

video games/movies are fake, porn is real... joelbny Jan 2013 #212

You don't think mass media plays a part in molding society? Kooljas Jan 2013 #224

What kind of fantasy world do I inhabit? trumad Jan 2013 #227

Parents Donfini Jan 2013 #181

"worry about being the kids best friend" so true. i told kids years ago, i am not here to be your seabeyond Jan 2013 #184

+1 Go Vols Jan 2013 #215

this football coach allowed the rapist to continue playing after video exposed the entire event No Compromise Jan 2013 #223

Not a surprise. We need to get at the root of this problem tho... Taverner Jan 2013 #225

You are absolutely correct riverbendviewgal Jan 2013 #226