General Discussion

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)

71. Seek and ye shall find

Fri Jan 4, 2013, 07:04 PM

Jan 2013

It's kind of like contemplating a new car, say a Honda Accord. Suddenly, you see them everywhere...

For rape victims, we hear the apologies constantly. "She was a slut, she dressed provocatively, she should have known better than to hang out with the football players."

"Men don't rape for control or power, they just get horny like animals and can't help themselves."

There are all sorts of excuses.

I am not refuting the "humans are animals meme" in that last post so much as I am indicating that, if this is so ( that we are beholden to primal urges ) then training, lessons and classes are in order to end the rape culture we live in today.

If people are dogs, we should be trained like we train dogs.

"No, Johnny. You cannot hump your neighbor."

If we're animals and all......

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There's a lot of pushback when you point out and challenge examples of rape culture... [View all] redqueen Jan 2013 OP

K&R trumad Jan 2013 #1

K&R forestpath Jan 2013 #2

Beauty and the Beast? Shivering Jemmy Jan 2013 #3

Yes, but there is also another side to that meta-narrative. Bonobo Jan 2013 #4

the bad boy thing is still strong these days- with Twilight and the Shades of Grey series bettyellen Jan 2013 #14

Yeah, marions ghost Jan 2013 #62

I told my coworker that she'd feel differently if she'd ever been stalked. But she's young and bettyellen Jan 2013 #65

Interesting. I have never thought of it that way. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #97

I know that people attack us when we speak out but... LiberalLoner Jan 2013 #5

+1 redqueen Jan 2013 #6

I think primal tales such as Beauty and the Beast have more than one meaning el_bryanto Jan 2013 #7

no. not all of us are complacent and we pay hell for it. rape has become our entertainment. seabeyond Jan 2013 #8

Exactly. redqueen Jan 2013 #9

Like the village in India that wants to prevent tblue37 Jan 2013 #13

Great article - read it all. Locrian Jan 2013 #10

Yep. We're conditioned to see it as 'normal'. redqueen Jan 2013 #11

"The Quiet Man"? daleanime Jan 2013 #30

I was referring to Blade Runner, but there are countless examples. redqueen Jan 2013 #56

Well yeah, but no one likes to admit that.... daleanime Jan 2013 #59

If the messed-upness wasn't manifesting as violence so often redqueen Jan 2013 #60

We do agree, although I kind of come at it from the other side... daleanime Jan 2013 #61

That's a valid point, redqueen Jan 2013 #64

Excellent post, redqueen. tblue37 Jan 2013 #12

True, I remember several 'respected" posters here OPing that rapists were rare sociopaths and "knew" bettyellen Jan 2013 #15

It cuts across all segments of society, rich, poor, geeks, jocks, artists... redqueen Jan 2013 #16

You're right. I was referring to the frats and sports teams only in the context of gang rape..... bettyellen Jan 2013 #20

Wow, I hadn't seen that stat. redqueen Jan 2013 #57

Yep, really is sad to see here on DU. Rex Jan 2013 #17

Once you start to see it, you do realize it's everywhere. MadrasT Jan 2013 #18

K&R. nt DLevine Jan 2013 #19

There's a larger question here really, I think Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #21

ah this is such bullshit and tired of we are animals so that explains it crap. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #22

Note that that wasn't a defence but an observation. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #23

we may be animals and subject to impulses beyond our control el_bryanto Jan 2013 #24

And to some extent aspects of our culture celebrate those impulses. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #26

what is this animal instinct you talk about? rape? or sex? nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #32

or murder or robbery el_bryanto Jan 2013 #36

i do not see this as being mere animal. he was talking evolutionary behavioral psychology which i seabeyond Jan 2013 #41

That's my point and I suspect that's largely his point as well n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #44

no. he sent me to a site with evolutionary biology. a cult today that infects our males with right seabeyond Jan 2013 #47

Evolutionary biology is a cult? Are you a creationist? n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #49

no. i am talking about the people that take behaviors today and validate them... like rape, seabeyond Jan 2013 #52

Validate them? By saying they have their origin in our animal natures? el_bryanto Jan 2013 #53

I have seen this validation here frequently. It's just a few "uncontrollable sociopaths" and there bettyellen Jan 2013 #63

Evolutionary biology not a validation or an excuse, just a partial explanation joelbny Jan 2013 #69

post 89. scientists reject evo psych. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #90

post 89. scientists reject evo psych. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #91

But we all do know Tsiyu Jan 2013 #25

Except that whole "I can't do that" thing seems to be absent from sociopaths Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #27

So then sociopaths are mutations Tsiyu Jan 2013 #28

You seem to assume that it isn't the other way around Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #31

But then I believe we would be far more violent than we are Tsiyu Jan 2013 #38

Part of the reason for the relative but not absolute lack of violence... Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #43

sub-Saharan Africa Tsiyu Jan 2013 #50

and that fits in with some men learning to view women as a different tribe due less respect bettyellen Jan 2013 #72

"We train animals not to steal food or piss on the floor. " OMG, too true..... bettyellen Jan 2013 #67

It seems the rape apologists have a dilemma Tsiyu Jan 2013 #68

who are the rape apologists? joelbny Jan 2013 #70

Seek and ye shall find Tsiyu Jan 2013 #71

yes actually if 1 in 3 women are raped.... joelbny Jan 2013 #75

Uh Oh Tsiyu Jan 2013 #76

about porn joelbny Jan 2013 #78

Sad story Tsiyu Jan 2013 #80

note, i am calling it bullshit, not talking about "defense". i am flat out calling this shit spewed seabeyond Jan 2013 #29

There's a difference between an explanation and an excuse Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #33

i am calling your explanation bullshit. what is this animal instinct you are talking about? seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

I never said anything about "animal instinct" Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #37

this is what i thought you were referring to. evolutionary fuckin' behavioral science that has seabeyond Jan 2013 #40

You didn't actually bother to look at the review did you? Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #45

i have repeatedly presented documentation where the scientific community rejects evolutionary seabeyond Jan 2013 #51

You have? I haven't seen it Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #54

No, it is not natural for men to gang rape women gollygee Jan 2013 #39

+1 Rex Jan 2013 #87

The end of patriarchy ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #48

Oh, it can be changed, and it will be. redqueen Jan 2013 #55

Plus the 'dumb beast' argument doesn't hold water. Rex Jan 2013 #86

That is not really true. Rex Jan 2013 #85

Except that isn't true at all Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #88

Does evolutionary psychology have any problems? seabeyond Jan 2013 #89

Yes but we are talking about normal human beings. Rex Jan 2013 #92

K&R No matter how low a man is, he is still master of his wife. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #35

yes. nt. seabeyond Jan 2013 #42

Thank you! redqueen Jan 2013 #58

You're very welcomed. I just wish there were some way to get more people to see Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #93

I don't know if there's any way to force it. redqueen Jan 2013 #96

Thank you for stating the obvious. It always seems to hide in plain sight. n/t Raksha Jan 2013 #94

k&R ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #46

Some men refuse to see forced sex as rape marions ghost Jan 2013 #66

I love rhe way she summarized that part of the wonderful yes means yes blog... redqueen Jan 2013 #73

The world would be very different if we shunned (& punished) rapists, she concludes: marions ghost Jan 2013 #74

The tie in with domestic violence is another issue. redqueen Jan 2013 #77

Domestic violence seems to be at the heart of the Steubenville, Ohio gang rape. yardwork Jan 2013 #79

Micheal Nodianos the young man in the Ohio State tee shirt in that heinous video, goes to Ohio State riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #83

I hope he ends up scrubbing toilets at a fast food restaurant. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #98

Yup. Just had it happen (again) to me, not an hour ago on another thread riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #81

K&R, Great Thread. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #82

Weekend kick nt riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #84

K & R Raksha Jan 2013 #95