General Discussion

frustrated_lefty

(2,774 posts)

65. And

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:36 PM

Jan 2013

impacts on both feeding and learning have been described in GM cotton. It remains unclear how significantly these effects impact colony health.

Ecotoxicology. 2010 Nov;19(8):1452-9. doi: 10.1007/s10646-010-0530-z. Epub 2010 Aug 11.
Quantification of toxins in a Cry1Ac + CpTI cotton cultivar and its potential effects on the honey bee Apis mellifera L.
Han P, Niu CY, Lei CL, Cui JJ, Desneux N.

Ecotoxicol Environ Saf. 2008 Jun;70(2):327-33. doi: 10.1016/j.ecoenv.2007.12.002. Epub 2008 Feb 21.
Does Cry1Ab protein affect learning performances of the honey bee Apis mellifera L. (Hymenoptera, Apidae)?
Ramirez-Romero R, Desneux N, Decourtye A, Chaffiol A, Pham-Delègue MH.

Again, I don't think the question has been conclusively answered. Personally, I'd like to see more scientific evidence. Unfortunately, primary literature searches don't pull up many results on the subject. It's an area which is understudied.

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i'm just going to POST THIS AS LOUD AS I CAN and crush all arguments-MONSANTO=root of all evil. [View all] farminator3000 Jan 2013 OP

Kicked and recommended! Cooley Hurd Jan 2013 #1

hey, thanks! if you have a garden, check this out, too... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #2

OMG - I did not even think about that!! Here I am going out of my way not to buy GMOs in the store jillan Jan 2013 #4

some pointers to seed companies here - both Monsanto and not-Monsanto Agony Jan 2013 #7

I'm glad to see Ed Hume is not Monsanto. Blue_In_AK Jan 2013 #100

That is a great list. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #167

Here is where I get all my seeds. JEB Jan 2013 #10

I have ordered from Seeds of Change in the past (phew, they are safe) but jillan Jan 2013 #21

Check this out DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #49

I have too. I like that company. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #168

Nichols is my fave, I do get a few from Territorial too. nt Viva_La_Revolution Jan 2013 #114

check out Seed Savers Exchange, everybody! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #66

no seed company is 'safe,' as where companies like monsanto don't own the seeds, they may HiPointDem Jan 2013 #96

hey, check out #66 and #292 farminator3000 Jan 2013 #294

here's a good seed company... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #292

No argument here. LWolf Jan 2013 #3

no bees - no food bluemarkers Jan 2013 #5

So .... how is Monsanto killing bees? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #15

There is the possibility that pesticides are a contributing factor to CCD RomneyLies Jan 2013 #80

+1. And, ... Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #83

A corn based diet bluemarkers Jan 2013 #131

Nobody is a "Monsanto cheerleader troll" here. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #133

yes I know. bluemarkers Jan 2013 #152

I have lots of bees in California. I let the wood sorrel grow. The tiny yellow JDPriestly Jan 2013 #169

Commercial Bee Keepers DO feed their Bees Corn Syrup. bvar22 Jan 2013 #190

That's why I'll only buy honey from local beekeepers I know RomneyLies Jan 2013 #198

Not "pesticides" - Imidocloprid, an insecticide. Need to be more specific. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #173

two thirds of food crops and ALL staple grains are wind pollinated.... mike_c Jan 2013 #72

and, hive-dwelling bees are not the only pollinators. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #84

yeah, but they're the most important ones by far, which you can learn in 60 seconds try google farminator3000 Jan 2013 #282

Too late, Bubba. I busted you in a flat lie. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #284

you actually posted some plagiarism, from a guy called UncleAdolf, so i'm glad to see you go farminator3000 Jan 2013 #286

just grains, which corn is, you don't know what you're saying. 2/3 of food crops=totally false farminator3000 Jan 2013 #285

I'm an insect ecologist by profession-- I know quite well what I'm talking about.... mike_c Jan 2013 #288

then why aren't you talking about genetic diversity or all of the OTHER pollinators also dying? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #289

because that's another conversation.... mike_c Jan 2013 #290

not really. if you have a PhD, you should know that entire ecosystems are much more than data, and farminator3000 Jan 2013 #291

What do you farm? superpatriotman Jan 2013 #6

All sorts of things! Marrah_G Jan 2013 #23

fruits and vegetables farminator3000 Jan 2013 #67

Yeah, thanks superpatriotman Jan 2013 #74

sorry, didn't mean to sound snarky! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #179

GMO Trilogy - Unnatural Selection Go Vols Jan 2013 #8

Great rant, but... Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #9

The corporate model that is being imposed on farms is what's killing bees. Monsato is the architect KittyWampus Jan 2013 #14

Ok... I guess. What does that mean? (At least you are not defending "GMOs kill bees") Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #17

Industrial scale bee-keeping & use of pesticides & mono-cropping all combine KittyWampus Jan 2013 #25

True, mostly. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #34

"GMOs do not provide any further motivation for monocropping than the original native seeds. " Agony Jan 2013 #47

Your post makes no sense. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #54

Corn is wind pollinated. "Self pollinated" means a plant pollinates itself. Corn doesn't. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #126

You are, of course, correct. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #129

I just want to know where... SkyDaddy7 Jan 2013 #162

Being called a shill is a rite of passage. Sorry. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #170

Nice to see... SkyDaddy7 Jan 2013 #272

Genetically Mutant corporate crap sure as HELL ain't doing bees any good either Berlum Jan 2013 #40

Well, that was baseless. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #55

It's a fact, Jack Berlum Jan 2013 #86

Opinion, Jimson! Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #92

Herbicides have no effect whatsoever on bees. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #119

and i'm done. synergy. horizontal gene transfer. untested chemicals. surfactants. sad story, really. farminator3000 Jan 2013 #249

Roundup is killing bees? Got a link for that? yellowcanine Jan 2013 #172

here ya go! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #180

That says nothing about RoundUp killing the bees. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #183

i've actually seen a PET killed by round up, please don't remind me of it farminator3000 Jan 2013 #185

That claim is bullshit. His bees were seized due to American Foul Brood RomneyLies Jan 2013 #187

just like he did about the bald eagle, sure. farminator3000 Jan 2013 #192

That has nothing to do with the bee bullshit RomneyLies Jan 2013 #196

those aren't facts, those are one persons "story" farminator3000 Jan 2013 #200

And now you pull out mercola woo woo bullshit RomneyLies Jan 2013 #201

read the real story, maybe, and a link, maybe? not some prepared email? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #204

They were abating the nuisance RomneyLies Jan 2013 #211

number 1, for instance... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #202

Ingram lied. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #203

prove it. link? story? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #205

Claims must be supported by actual research, not appeals to reputation (authority). What actual yellowcanine Jan 2013 #209

i'm sure he has more 'research' to back him up than monsanto farminator3000 Jan 2013 #210

There you go again. Your link has nothing to do with Roundup and bees or Ingram. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #250

Terry Ingram is a nutjob RomneyLies Jan 2013 #213

you haven't posted a damn thing farminator3000 Jan 2013 #215

Fine RomneyLies Jan 2013 #216

you seem to be the only one disagreeing with me here farminator3000 Jan 2013 #218

Because it is late night on a Sunday RomneyLies Jan 2013 #219

BTW, peer reviewed articles about neonicotinoids and the correlation to CCD RomneyLies Jan 2013 #220

bayer is just a foreign company that monsanto sells its crap to so it won't get an anti-trust suit farminator3000 Jan 2013 #221

Monsamto manufactures no neonicotinoids. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #225

MONSANTO and BAYER are PARTNERS in BUSINESS. get it? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #228

THEY PARTNERED IN TRANSGENIC ORGANISMS, NOT NEONICOTINOIDS. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #234

do you have glasses, also? you seem to be missing some key points, here farminator3000 Jan 2013 #238

You put words into my mouth constantly RomneyLies Jan 2013 #239

you put words on the internet constantly. if roundup isn't PART of the cause, where's a link?? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #242

And the end game of woo comes in, demand proof of a negative. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #243

yes, providing a link that isn't PAID FOR by monsanto saying their crap is safe is just a crazy idea farminator3000 Jan 2013 #245

Post removed Post removed Jul 2023 #297

Make that at least one more person because I disagree with you. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #252

well, you're wrong, too, then farminator3000 Jan 2013 #255

And the relevance to Roundup and bees is........???? yellowcanine Jan 2013 #258

the relevance of you saying 'that's not true' is...? and the other hundreds of things besides bees? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #262

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2023 #298

Antifreeze kills cats and dogs. And bees, too? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #189

post a fact instead of just nothing please farminator3000 Jan 2013 #191

You brought me to this subthread because I said Roundup was safe for humans to use if used properly. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #193

you started with 'gmo crops are not killing bees' farminator3000 Jan 2013 #208

Monsanto isn't klling bees. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #212

they are killing pretty much everything. with a BRAND NEW PATHOGEN!! how can you know what it does? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #222

Provide the peer reviewed studies. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #226

email the guy if you want to argue with him same scientist from Purdue farminator3000 Jan 2013 #230

The crackpot hasn't published anything RomneyLies Jan 2013 #233

well, you've posted, in total, 1 questionable email, which is much easier than publuishing a study.. farminator3000 Jan 2013 #235

More irrelevent BS RomneyLies Jan 2013 #237

if i emailed them, i'd ask how much they got paid by M to harass the poor guy farminator3000 Jan 2013 #240

Okay, I'm done talking to you RomneyLies Jan 2013 #241

you mean typing AT me farminator3000 Jan 2013 #244

Link is about a protest by Polish beekeepers, not about Roundup killing bees. Do you have an yellowcanine Jan 2013 #207

can you not read bold type? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #214

Yes - the bold type was about the protest - not a link to research. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #253

here- knock yourself out- they banned it in poland so, i guess they were right. not hard to find... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #256

This message was self-deleted by its author yellowcanine Jan 2013 #259

Roundup/bees???????????? yellowcanine Jan 2013 #260

will you pay attention please? big M just bought the only people doing research into the farminator3000 Jan 2013 #267

"big M just bought the only people doing reasearch into the cause of bee death." yellowcanine Jan 2013 #270

did you even read the article about it? because your "quote" is from beelogics website farminator3000 Jan 2013 #273

Have you seen this? PETRUS Jan 2013 #31

Sure. This is a well-known effect of monocropping. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #59

Who says it did? I was replying to $14, which was making a different point. PETRUS Jan 2013 #115

It may have been your intent to reply to #14, but in was posted in response to me. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #135

If you say so... PETRUS Jan 2013 #136

I found your post as a response on the "My Posts" tab at the top of the screen. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #140

Must be a glitch Cal Carpenter Jan 2013 #160

Definitely a glitch RomneyLies Jan 2013 #166

thanks! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #68

We live in the middle of farms (lots of corn) and we have very few insects. Frogs all die also. glinda Jan 2013 #103

frogs are dying everywhere, like canaries in the coal mine... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #247

You are a scientist, or bee-keeper, or both? Isn't it odd how Monsanto killed a test hive and bought Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #16

There is some logic in there somewhere, but no science. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #18

No, but the pesticides required to grow them might be. KittyWampus Jan 2013 #26

And these pesticides do not differ from the pesticides used on non-GMO crops. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #30

GMO crops may be increasing pesticide use - not decreasing like was sposed to happen according to Agony Jan 2013 #46

No argument here. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #51

Chemtrails might be killing the bees also Major Nikon Jan 2013 #43

Show your proof of what is killing the bees. rainin Jan 2013 #32

Sure. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #42

I hate to be rude, rainin Jan 2013 #48

How ignorant. (Any, despite your hate for it, you were rude) Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #53

Not ignorant. rainin Jan 2013 #56

You invoked Watt while being nasty and rude. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #62

look at post#180 farminator3000 Jan 2013 #181

I'm not sure the question is so conclusively answered. frustrated_lefty Jan 2013 #39

No. Not Bt corn. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #44

And frustrated_lefty Jan 2013 #65

perhaps bees are allergic to corn pollen, which is blown hundreds to thousands of yards by the wind farminator3000 Jan 2013 #99

One small note, bees still collect corn pollen. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #130

WHY there is "no science" on the effects of long term use og the toxins and GMOs: bvar22 Jan 2013 #69

I suppose there is some science in your post. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #77

"innuendo"? hopemountain Jan 2013 #227

see post #60 farminator3000 Jan 2013 #70

Not science, yet. Crime? Yes. Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #109

....but nuthin'. the bummer is monsanto is a greedy scumbag! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #60

You threw a big enough net that you actually caught the real culprit. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #64

are you an expert on what they own? they have some sketchy friends... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #79

Who owns what pesticides is a matter of public record. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #81

i didn't just fall off the turnip truck. obviously bayer and mon-ster-santo are in cahoots! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #95

Nevermind. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #97

Is Monsanto your employer, or your roody Jan 2013 #121

Neither. Are you paid to ask these questions? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #132

My only income comes from teaching public roody Jan 2013 #138

Still trolling. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #139

Always trolling the GMO threads, roody Jan 2013 #158

You have an opportunity to discuss the science Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #159

discuss this farminator3000 Jan 2013 #223

... Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #232

weak. you seem to be missing the part about how monsanto THREATENS AND OWNS SCIENTISTS farminator3000 Jan 2013 #236

Weak? I gave you a link that DESTROYED your "research". Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #277

that's actually laughable what you did there. thanks for reminding me to dissect your tranparency farminator3000 Jan 2013 #279

Unreal. You did not even read it. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #280

i did read it that's the problem. the link you posted was totally bogus. you are the hysterical one farminator3000 Jan 2013 #281

Thank you for demonstrating that your blatant lies are fully intentional. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #283

say hi to UncleAdolf and his wonderful site farminator3000 Jan 2013 #287

That is open to debate. arikara Jan 2013 #112

I wouldn't be surprised, either, but it is not the case. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #122

since Monsanto now owns the organization handmade34 Jan 2013 #150

K&R Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #11

K & R ...the corporate war on farmers! L0oniX Jan 2013 #12

Life on earth depends on diversity. GMO's are, by definition, exact replicants = no diversity. KittyWampus Jan 2013 #13

???? How do GMOs differ from standard hybrids (used for a century)? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #20

Standard hybrids have SOME diversity within their DNA. They are not all exact replicants. KittyWampus Jan 2013 #28

GMO organisms are not exact replicants, either. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #137

Standard Hybrids, produced by cross pollination, are limited by nature... bvar22 Jan 2013 #33

i'm just going to POST THIS AS LOUD AS I CAN and crush all arguments-MONSANTO=root of all evil. oldhippydude Jan 2013 #19

Round up is no worse than any other pesticide. It's the over-application that is awful. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #27

...and My Wife & I choose to ban those products from our immediate environment. bvar22 Jan 2013 #36

Good deal! No doubt, we can live better without them. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #45

What do you use for control? DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #63

We use a cultivator, rototiller and pull weeds by hand in the organic veggie gardens. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #91

You are doing the right thing DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #113

There are other Roundup problems as well: Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #147

that sounds like a round up AD...see post #180 farminator3000 Jan 2013 #182

Um ... no. i will defend the product against ignorant claimts. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #184

see #185 farminator3000 Jan 2013 #186

those are only the problems from the monsanto memo farminator3000 Jan 2013 #194

You are so right DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #58

"Used Properly" bvar22 Jan 2013 #75

That's a bit strong. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #148

OK Lets take a "Real World" look at your rebuttal. bvar22 Jan 2013 #175

In many ways you are right, but you are wrong in all important ways. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #177

no, he is just right farminator3000 Jan 2013 #197

YOU are only re-inforcing MY argument. bvar22 Jan 2013 #199

Case closed? Roundup is now banned for home use? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #217

+1 n/t handmade34 Jan 2013 #153

Great post. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #78

A bit more on RU DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #142

During the time I studied gardening tama Jan 2013 #71

No argument here. bvar22 Jan 2013 #22

thanks for your help! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #82

You sly little farminator you Fumesucker Jan 2013 #24

Natural News is a Woo-Woo site. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #29

I wish Mike Adams would stick to health issues. rainin Jan 2013 #52

Ahead of his time!!... SidDithers Jan 2013 #85

He's a far right nutter, that no-one on DU should have anything to do with muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #89

sorry about that, i updated the OP farminator3000 Jan 2013 #105

K&R - along with all the politicians in their pockets. forestpath Jan 2013 #35

K&R MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #37

Doesn't the farm bill help Monsanto? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #38

probably! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #165

here in the USA, M just buys its way out of any controversy as with the bee research above lunasun Jan 2013 #41

Naturalnews. And woo week moves into day 2...nt SidDithers Jan 2013 #50

Scientific Materialists with their narrow, idiosyncratic 'beliefs' tend to... Berlum Jan 2013 #87

OK, how about "Natural News is a far right hate site"? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #90

Keep defending woo... SidDithers Jan 2013 #93

On the Woo Woo Choo Choo green for victory Jan 2013 #120

'Root of all evil' is not the way to persuade people. No matter how LOUDLY you scream it. randome Jan 2013 #57

farminator, my father suspected that the death of bees saidsimplesimon Jan 2013 #61

good for you! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #248

your source is utter anti-science crap.... mike_c Jan 2013 #73

written a book, have you? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #106

kick samsingh Jan 2013 #76

Please replace your link to the far right Natural News with a non-obscene one muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #88

sorry! done. farminator3000 Jan 2013 #107

OP, why are you using conspiracy trash sites to make your case and ChisolmTrailDem Jan 2013 #94

there was more than one link i believe farminator3000 Jan 2013 #108

You will get no argument from me. Blue_In_AK Jan 2013 #98

K&R even though I disagree. Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #101

the biggest, oldest root on the tree? here's a video..with Dick! (Cheney, of course) farminator3000 Jan 2013 #157

GMO woo is to the left as climate change denial woo is to the right. FarCenter Jan 2013 #102

so was Silent Spring when it came out...maybe 'right' is 'wrong' on occaision? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #116

There's a kernel of truth in both sides. But Monsanto & GMO needs to be put on a leash. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #127

The main backlash against Monsanto is due to patents and to European farmers and the subsidy regime FarCenter Jan 2013 #144

You had me... until you posted the woo site. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #104

try this guy- it was a caffiene-induced oversight... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #111

Thank you! backscatter712 Jan 2013 #125

ALRIGHT ALREADY!!! natural news is a cuckoo site, i xxxx'd it! back on topic, please! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #110

Link talks about Obama's admin bad moves also = you may have to remove this link too yaknow!!! lunasun Jan 2013 #141

i opened a can of worms there, whoops! not his fault the FDA is such a mess! he's trying! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #149

Oh I saw nothing wrong with any of your posts .... lunasun Jan 2013 #156

Obama has EARNED a dissing for his aid to Monsanto. bvar22 Jan 2013 #261

Oh I know Monsanto /Vilsack around see my post #41 lunasun Jan 2013 #275

How can president Obama have put THAT "Man from Monsanto"... bvar22 Jan 2013 #278

Sign a petition to the White House randr Jan 2013 #117

That's why I call it MonSATAN LiberalEsto Jan 2013 #118

Bookmarked this to get it kicked from time to time. OldEurope Jan 2013 #123

Baker Creek recc ColumbusLib Jan 2013 #124

Root of ALL evil? NoPasaran Jan 2013 #128

i tried! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #151

Monsanto wants to help the bees... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #134

+ Sancho Jan 2013 #143

Destroying Kauai KauaiK Jan 2013 #145

have you seen millions against monsanto hawaii on FB? farminator3000 Jan 2013 #164

thank you niyad Jan 2013 #146

even India is smart enough handmade34 Jan 2013 #154

"occupy monsanto" list of seeds/plants and snoop alert - site seems to be sane farminator3000 Jan 2013 #155

Corrupt elections lead to corrupt government that fails to regulate/prosecute corrupt businesses Cliff Arnebeck Jan 2013 #161

yessir! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #163

Monsanto worships Money Larrymoe Curlyshemp Jan 2013 #171

monster-santo is also trying to mess with OUR SACRED HERB! farminator3000 Jan 2013 #174

Our Honey Bees, Free Range Chickens, bvar22 Jan 2013 #176

that's some SWEET lookin' honey (no pun...) farminator3000 Jan 2013 #178

The first "honey robbing" was in May, bvar22 Jan 2013 #188

No arguments here! Initech Jan 2013 #195

it is evil samsingh Jan 2013 #206

kick Liberal_in_LA Jan 2013 #224

yes! monsanto is evil hopemountain Jan 2013 #229

Yep. southerncrone Jan 2013 #231

i think i deserve a shout out for not getting booted from my own thread for an insult... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #246

Lot of heat for a little light. CropGun Jan 2013 #251

thank you for your paid spokesman nonsense. you are a perfect example of the problem. farminator3000 Jan 2013 #254

Heh CropGun Jan 2013 #263

if that's the best you've got, just give up now farminator3000 Jan 2013 #265

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #268

"Bt and all the other crap are ruining people lives! giving people cancer..." Link? yellowcanine Jan 2013 #264

like i just told your buddy...also, i know what bt is, thanks for that anyway farminator3000 Jan 2013 #266

Well it is not my fault you are so careless in your language. yellowcanine Jan 2013 #269

Bt means Bt and spraying the bacteria in its natural state is WAY different than genetic splicing farminator3000 Jan 2013 #271

The way to "crush arguments" isn't to be AS LOUD AS YOU CAN BE and throw out yellowcanine Jan 2013 #257

you have only linked to yourself as a credible source, so there's that farminator3000 Jan 2013 #274

"ORDER 81: Re-engineering Iraqi agriculture The ultimate war crime: breaking the agricultural cycle" farminator3000 Jan 2013 #276

i found another good seed compnay- from oregon farminator3000 Jan 2013 #293

here's the best list of seeds/plants to avoid this planting season, and lots of other stuff farminator3000 Jan 2013 #295

more stuff about which seeds/plants to avoid. it is confusing farminator3000 Jan 2013 #296