General Discussion

redgreenandblue

(2,117 posts)

30. The big question is, can one directly pin the famines on #1 and #2 of these three.

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:13 AM

Jan 2013

I have no answer to this question but it is a valid one.

Hitler murdered all his victims directly, through war and execution. Under Mao and Stalin many people starved. To what degree this was the result of their policies is harder to figure out. It requires more understanding of the situation in their countries than I have, so I cannot comment on this.

In principle though it would seem, if one is honest and fair, one then also has to pin every other death through neglect on the people who are in charge. For instance Americans who die from lack of healthcare, and so on.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

92 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I am watching Oliver Stone's "Untold History" and, wow, I have to say ... [View all] redgreenandblue Jan 2013 OP

I haven't seen the show BainsBane Jan 2013 #1

Yes. What I have posted is just my initial impression from the first two episodes. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #2

Platoon was real and factual larkrake Jan 2013 #55

A lot of people are Oliver Stone naysayers, Blue_In_AK Jan 2013 #3

A Balanced Response Protalker Jan 2013 #4

^ Agree with you ^ Mimosa Jan 2013 #31

agreed. eom ellenfl Jan 2013 #33

+1! uponit7771 Jan 2013 #52

+1. Bonobo Jan 2013 #76

Parts 1, 2, & 3 on Youtube allrevvedup Jan 2013 #5

Thanks for the links. n/t Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #43

Parts 4 - 8 Catherina Jan 2013 #45

Darlin' ,I just knew you would be able to post the rest of the links I have been looking for!!! dixiegrrrrl Jan 2013 #47

I HAD to find them! Catherina Jan 2013 #48

Thanks for the links everyone, on to episode 3. It'll be a long night. Very interesting. JaneyVee Jan 2013 #53

It was a long night and I'm still not done lol n/t Catherina Jan 2013 #62

That last quote is so prophetically accurate. dixiegrrrrl Jan 2013 #59

Chilling isn't it? Catherina Jan 2013 #63

Yes, very prophetic. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #69

Amazing quotes from Wallace... AntiFascist Jan 2013 #74

Oh yay! Now we get to see him shit on Clinton... Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #67

Are you sure he does? allrevvedup Jan 2013 #68

The ending of the last video posted suggests it, yeah... Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #71

Multiple thank yous. n/t Smarmie Doofus Jan 2013 #81

It's bullshit. Confusious Jan 2013 #6

Parts 1 and 2 at least are pretty standard fare. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #7

Part 3 is excellent. In fact they all are. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #19

Like I said, they're bullshit Confusious Jan 2013 #21

I'll keep that perspective in mind, but I still want to finish watching the series. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #28

So did our history books when I was coming up, even at the college level. TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #36

balanced? We get the rose colored glasses edition in school larkrake Jan 2013 #54

What brutal facts? Confusious Jan 2013 #58

We certainly killed civilians by design in Dresden, and the British did the same in Berlin DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #64

I was hoping you would have something new to say Confusious Jan 2013 #79

Why don't you point out some specific points you find to be 'bullshit'? Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #84

I already did, but you seem to want to get your outrage on Confusious Jan 2013 #87

What is bullshit, exactly? DanTex Jan 2013 #29

And we fought the NAZIs in Africa Confusious Jan 2013 #37

I think something happened over by Japan too. Neoma Jan 2013 #40

Nah, the russians forced the surrender of Japan Confusious Jan 2013 #41

The war in North Africa was essentially a sideshow. DanTex Jan 2013 #83

They do Confusious Jan 2013 #85

But the Italian campaign was pretty small in the scheme of things. DanTex Jan 2013 #86

As a part, yes, as a whole, no. Confusious Jan 2013 #88

But before D-day, there was (almost) no fighting on the Western Front. DanTex Jan 2013 #89

I think we CAN say that it's bullshit Confusious Jan 2013 #91

R you kidding me? Botany Jan 2013 #8

I am not saying he wasn't a brutal dictator. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #9

When you find yourself saying "I'm not saying Stalin wasn't the most evil person ever, BUT..." Recursion Jan 2013 #15

"the most evil person ever". redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #17

Body count usually is a good judge Confusious Jan 2013 #22

The big question is, can one directly pin the famines on #1 and #2 of these three. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #30

Yes you can pin it on them Confusious Jan 2013 #38

No-one is saying Stalin was a good guy. Just recognizing historical facts newthinking Jan 2013 #72

I didn't say anything you just stated Confusious Jan 2013 #77

So who starved all those people during the drought years in the US? malaise Jan 2013 #11

OMG. Seriously? Recursion Jan 2013 #14

FDR had to send them help because they were starving malaise Jan 2013 #20

lack of understanding about the prairie environment was 75% of the reason .... Botany Jan 2013 #27

Stalin was the world's greatest mass murderer 1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #10

I have to disagree that Stalin was worse than Hitler. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #16

potential ones Confusious Jan 2013 #26

Re-watch Stone's own picture. He downplayed it and left out most of the details but even he tells Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #56

Some of us can seperate the sacrifice and contribution of the Russian people newthinking Jan 2013 #73

Really? Can you? Confusious Jan 2013 #80

I'd agree with you insofar as saying Stalin had a huge influence on the 20th century DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #65

Haven't seen Oliver Stone's version but did see a Russian documentary on Stalin lunatica Jan 2013 #12

The brutality of Stalin's is perhaps underrepresented in the Stone documentary. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #13

Stalin's life is definitely a lesson on how to be a dictator lunatica Jan 2013 #18

I'm not trying to excuse the mass murders he commited against his political enemies. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #25

The main point I got from the WWII episodes WCGreen Jan 2013 #23

Exactly, maybe people should actually watch it. newthinking Jan 2013 #75

real history vs Oliver Stone History Botany Jan 2013 #24

^ Agree with you ^ Mimosa Jan 2013 #32

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #34

A terrific series. And history as most of the world knows it Catherina Jan 2013 #35

Oliver Stone is a conspiracy nut, tin foil hat wearing, moron. period. crazyjoe Jan 2013 #39

+ Confusious Jan 2013 #42

Stone is a far-left propaganda shit spreader. Archae Jan 2013 #46

Umm, yes, Stone does go into the atrocities in Berlin. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #66

Stone's son... Puha Ekapi Jan 2013 #51

Apple/Tree otohara Jan 2013 #60

I think it's great.. Upton Jan 2013 #44

Same here Catherina Jan 2013 #49

Good grief. Stalin murdered millions of his own countrymen... lanlady Jan 2013 #50

The Untold History of the US ReRe Jan 2013 #57

Folks, try to keep these two facts in mind DerekG Jan 2013 #61

Bingo. The Soviet (as they were known back then) military lost between 8,800,000 to.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #70

Then it sounds like their gov't was courageous and tenacious also. Smarmie Doofus Jan 2013 #82

Max Hastings' book ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #78

I was thinking something similar today... redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #90

kick for more feedback steve2470 Jan 2013 #92