General Discussion

MadHound

(34,179 posts)

17. Have you ever read the book the Ugly American?

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:16 PM

Jan 2013

I suggest you do, it is quite enlightening.

We made the same mistake we're making now over fifty years ago in Vietnam. A shame that we didn't learn it.

Let me put this another way, fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity, a contradiction in terms that only insures you continue to have your goal allude you. Continuing drone strikes against "radical" or "terrorists" or what ever else you want to call them is only going to result in more terrorists being created, which will then necessitate more drone strikes, which will radicalize more people, etc. etc., around and around we go.

If you want peace, if you want to end the war, then end it. Period. If you want to convince people you're the good guy, then start acting like it, rather than continuing to beat on them.

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"Just as ruthless and indifferent to the rule of law as his predecessor." Ouch. [View all] MadHound Jan 2013 OP

But but drones can have peaceful uses jsr Jan 2013 #1

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #2

Actually, they do, MadHound Jan 2013 #5

This. truebluegreen Jan 2013 #6

+10000 No Compromise Jan 2013 #57

There's no money in it for defense contractors Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #82

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #14

Have you ever read the book the Ugly American? MadHound Jan 2013 #17

Hear hear. nt awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #77

Exactly. MuseRider Jan 2013 #94

Q: "If not drones, what?" A: NOT waging war on every continent on earth? Maybe? nt Romulox Jan 2013 #7

Well now you're just being ridiculous. Dr. Strange Jan 2013 #105

But what about the jobs????? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #179

If what? How about getting out! rtassi Jan 2013 #49

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #80

In the short term it doesn't. MadHound Jan 2013 #108

A lot of these groups Liberal1975 Jan 2013 #114

Well, maybe if we quit serving up reasons to attack us truebluegreen Jan 2013 #125

I partially agree with that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #128

OK, although I'm betting there are very few.... truebluegreen Jan 2013 #171

No war? No Empire? Fuddnik Jan 2013 #83

Bring the soldiers home. You know, out of harm's way. nt valerief Jan 2013 #116

'If not drones, what'? Can you explain why we are killing people in all these countries? sabrina 1 Jan 2013 #122

I said ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #127

Very good question... George II Jan 2013 #129

Apparently ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #144

If we stop doing what we are doing to tick them off, truebluegreen Jan 2013 #173

If not drones, what? GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #177

Soldiers SIGN UP to be in harms way. CHILDREN do not. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #178

Do you believe that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #185

You tell me, but grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #188

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #189

I understand you position, but pre-empive war, grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #191

You are going to leave out OWS protestors? AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #31

Wake up an do what? What are you advocating for?...nt SidDithers Jan 2013 #3

Sadly ann--- Jan 2013 #4

"Just as..." ProSense Jan 2013 #8

Sometimes the truth hurts, MadHound Jan 2013 #11

Sometime idiocy is idiocy. n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #12

Well, you should know all about that, considering. n/t MadHound Jan 2013 #13

Considering that I can tell the difference between Bush and Obama? ProSense Jan 2013 #16

The difference is telling, Obama is far worse than even chimp regarding drones Dragonfli Jan 2013 #59

Bush killed a million people in an illegal war. n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #89

And then was held above the law by Obama for doing so Dragonfli Jan 2013 #103

True, but Ouch... No response is likely NorthCarolina Jan 2013 #115

We can ALL tell the difference. bvar22 Jan 2013 #97

Or on "illegal" wiretapping? nt truebluegreen Jan 2013 #170

he is on this issue stupidicus Jan 2013 #54

i agree samsingh Jan 2013 #113

Nah, Obama killed Bambi so ... yeah, Obama = Bush /sarcasm uponit7771 Jan 2013 #164

To the civilians and their families being killed in 3rd World Countries, bvar22 Jan 2013 #172

Brown children that talk funny don't count they aren't as real as children Dragonfli Jan 2013 #176

K&R woo me with science Jan 2013 #9

Obama Appoints Dr. Drone to Head CIA JReed Jan 2013 #10

Just like ProSense Jan 2013 #15

Gee, didn't you post that nonsense yesterday? MadHound Jan 2013 #19

Nonsense? Your links are to articles that are nearly four years old and ProSense Jan 2013 #25

Umm, Obama was President when these actions were carried out, MadHound Jan 2013 #29

You're pushing bullshit from 2009 because you have nothing else. n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #32

Sad to see that you consider "enhanced interrogation", indefinite detention, MadHound Jan 2013 #35

Your claims are bullshit. ProSense Jan 2013 #37

You are being willfully blind, MadHound Jan 2013 #47

"Claiming that actions approved by Obama" ProSense Jan 2013 #55

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #67

What bullshit! ProSense Jan 2013 #76

LOL! MadHound Jan 2013 #86

What? ProSense Jan 2013 #92

I said this elsewhere, and here goes again.. George II Jan 2013 #137

Yeah, there's an alternative, MadHound Jan 2013 #169

That's all well and good, and I don't believe in war whatsoever........ George II Jan 2013 #174

Remember this? JReed Jan 2013 #22

"Just like Bush" straw man whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #43

"Everyone knows there are substantial differences between Obama and Bush" ProSense Jan 2013 #53

All the ones he gave Bush a pass for ignoring MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #58

Can you list a few? n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #66

invading Iraq, waterboarding and other torture of prisoners, warrantless surveillance MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #87

President Obama invaded Iraq and tortured people? ProSense Jan 2013 #101

Did he give Bush a pass for doing that? MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #112

Giving Bush a pass isn't invading Iraq illegally, which ProSense Jan 2013 #120

You are right, it does condone and support the action however Dragonfli Jan 2013 #142

Not if he didn't give him a pass uponit7771 Jan 2013 #165

True, but he did, so what does that matter? Dragonfli Jan 2013 #168

You just did. And of course, we get nothing but Republicans in charge of the military under Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #93

Wait ProSense Jan 2013 #104

He's continued (and expanded parts of) his predecessor's policies whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #63

Which law is the President breaking? n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #68

The Sixth Commandment whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #84

Are you invoking religion? n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #88

I'm an atheist whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #91

US/NATO bombings of Libya worked well. Mimosa Jan 2013 #90

Welcome back again, chlamor...nt SidDithers Jan 2013 #85

Been wide awake.. 99Forever Jan 2013 #18

Drones are better than general war treestar Jan 2013 #20

If Reagan/Bush had dropped a few million in reconstruction into Afghanistan, MadHound Jan 2013 #24

I'd suggest you read the book, "The Looming Tower". JoePhilly Jan 2013 #161

The would radicalize people less than just indiscriminate bombing treestar Jan 2013 #186

"Repeat after me" whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #48

Would you rather a drone hit a local terrorist compound treestar Jan 2013 #187

Um...what law is Obama breaking? jeff47 Jan 2013 #21

International law for starters JReed Jan 2013 #23

Problem is you didn't actually cite a law. jeff47 Jan 2013 #36

We are "Officially at War" with the whole ME? Eventually the Whole World? KoKo Jan 2013 #45

We're at war with "terrorists" who attacked us jeff47 Jan 2013 #158

The Fourth Geneva Convention Oilwellian Jan 2013 #71

And that doesn't mean killing 0 civilians. jeff47 Jan 2013 #160

AUMF atreides1 Jan 2013 #111

Letter from the President -- War Powers Resolution ProSense Jan 2013 #121

Whether or not Congress literally calls it a war isn't terribly relevant jeff47 Jan 2013 #159

Let me ask you this, MadHound Jan 2013 #28

If the Mexican government had followed their process for declaring war, yes. jeff47 Jan 2013 #38

Actually, no it isn't MadHound Jan 2013 #44

You're forgetting the declaration of war. jeff47 Jan 2013 #154

Countries are also not allowed to harbor combatants loose wheel Jan 2013 #184

9/11 has largely become a stalking horse anyway TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #50

There is no declaration of war from Congress. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #180

There's only a semantic difference between AUMF and declaration of war. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #183

One that violates the constitution, IMHO. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #192

AUMF still follows the intent jeff47 Jan 2013 #193

so, you're the only one awake, eh? spanone Jan 2013 #26

The DU double standard. n/t L0oniX Jan 2013 #27

For some. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #33

Yeah, ProSense Jan 2013 #39

It feels bad, dirty even, I wonder if it was a mistake Dragonfli Jan 2013 #70

Wait, ProSense Jan 2013 #81

I fell for the lesser of two evils bullshit, I made a mistake Dragonfli Jan 2013 #95

Good thing I'm smarter than that. n/t ProSense Jan 2013 #98

Not really, supporting death is not as clever as you think it is Dragonfli Jan 2013 #107

LOL! ProSense Jan 2013 #119

you are the one boasting about how smart you were to support these deaths Dragonfli Jan 2013 #134

DURec leftstreet Jan 2013 #30

K&R forestpath Jan 2013 #34

"Our only security lies in pre-emptive attack" whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #40

Obama = Bush JNelson6563 Jan 2013 #41

I'm always impressed when some one who does not know me thinks they can JoePhilly Jan 2013 #42

Wow, referring to yourself six times in three sentences, MadHound Jan 2013 #51

The article describes how upsets Dems would be if Bush were doing the same thing. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #65

Well, considering how pissed off Dems and liberals were when Bush was taking these sort of actions, MadHound Jan 2013 #69

Well, let's see ... I was FOR invading Afganistan initially. I was AGAINST the invasion of Iraq JoePhilly Jan 2013 #99

Your support for these things is not a validation whatchamacallit Jan 2013 #138

I've had some really self-righteous preachers try to JoePhilly Jan 2013 #145

I always like to suggest "name one" when they pull out the hypocrisy card. ieoeja Jan 2013 #147

I like that ... I prefer specifics over generalities. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #148

The OP isn't about you n/t leftstreet Jan 2013 #60

If its about "Dems" ... its about me too. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #61

It's about dead people n/t leftstreet Jan 2013 #78

Then why call out Dems, or claim Obama = Bush (or worse) JoePhilly Jan 2013 #109

How are they getting dead? leftstreet Jan 2013 #150

What's the point of the word "OUCH" at the end of the OP? JoePhilly Jan 2013 #153

You're being silly now. Ouch n/t leftstreet Jan 2013 #156

Wow, you are self absorbed. MadHound Jan 2013 #79

Na, just a slow morning. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #106

I'm awake ... and have been since the 60's ... rtassi Jan 2013 #46

Funny thing about that, Brennan once claimed "no civilians were killed Dragonfli Jan 2013 #52

k&r MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #56

well, most "bipartisanship" is found on the FP/WOT front stupidicus Jan 2013 #62

Meh. Economic issues are more important to me... Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #64

Nice to see that compassion and caring you exhibit. MadHound Jan 2013 #74

Fuck em. I got mine. OnyxCollie Jan 2013 #124

If only those kids were carrying a drone..... n/t 2on2u Jan 2013 #72

The difference is we all know Bush/Cheney were corrupt, lying warmongers. DCBob Jan 2013 #73

"You will know them by their fruits". MadHound Jan 2013 #96

Try to imagine the "fruits" of a McWar/Palin administration? DCBob Jan 2013 #102

Ah yes, Obama as the kinder, gentler warmonger, MadHound Jan 2013 #110

WTF? ProSense Jan 2013 #118

WTF? Dragonfli Jan 2013 #131

Now you're making up things I said? ProSense Jan 2013 #133

If I did I didn't mean to Dragonfli Jan 2013 #141

Bush lied about using drones? JoePhilly Jan 2013 #155

Unfortunately, if the shoe fits he has to wear it. This, the patriot act and secrecy have been arthritisR_US Jan 2013 #75

Nobody needs to "wake up." Get over yourself-people disagree with you. great white snark Jan 2013 #100

I favor Drone strikes. I also want the more advanced Drones in the field asap because they bluestate10 Jan 2013 #139

"Ouch"? LOL, there's nothing there that hurts. Is there supposed to be? NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #117

Apparently, the CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #123

Not for a liberal. It's all sunshine. nt raouldukelives Jan 2013 #132

You are supposed to feel shame because Bush's use of Drones pissed you off ... JoePhilly Jan 2013 #146

LOL! I know Trying to call me a hypocrite here is really stupid, since I feel NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #149

I made a similar point down thread ... JoePhilly Jan 2013 #151

Exactly. We can argue about the merits of the bombings, NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #157

But ... JoePhilly Jan 2013 #162

Some people will find something negative to say about anything George II Jan 2013 #126

Has Congress Officially Declared War On/Against Pakistan Yet? triplepoint Jan 2013 #130

Pak is on deck. OnyxCollie Jan 2013 #135

Drone warfare is not going away. My prediction is that is how our country and other advanced bluestate10 Jan 2013 #136

Just enter a cell phone number and eliminate the target. Chilling. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #182

We should ban and melt down all guns, everywhere. Then move on to things that kill bluestate10 Jan 2013 #140

True. But, being cremated by a Democratic drone is "not as bad" as one sent by a Republican. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #143

The Obama administration considers all men of military age to be "suspected militants." OnyxCollie Jan 2013 #152

Let's see some posts claiming any of what you said. NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #166

I dont even need to read the subject or body, I just see your username and know its a Obama=Bush OP stevenleser Jan 2013 #163

^^^^THIS^^^^ FSogol Jan 2013 #167

!!! babylonsister Jan 2013 #175

An absolute sickness of the soul grips many in our country who are shocked by children dying in a grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #181

You've roused the ire of the 'team players', you disruptor, you. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #190

Well said dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #194