"Just as ruthless and indifferent to the rule of law as his predecessor." Ouch.

[truebluegreen]

173. If we stop doing what we are doing to tick them off,

and then leave, I doubt if they would follow us.

From Afghanistan? Or Iraq? Or Iran? Why would they?--I ask that seriously. It's not like they would want us back. What or whose ideology would demand an attack on us? Absent other provocation?

Osama bin Laden warned us over and over during the 90s to get our bases out of the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. We ignored him, and deservedly or not, paid a heavy price. We used Saddam Hussein against Iran for years--he was "our" SoB in the region. Then he invaded Kuwait (arguably on mixed signals from us) and we kicked him out of there and put weapons inspections and sanctions in place to prevent further armament. Turns out that although he blustered and bluffed his neighbors on the subject, he didn't develop more after we left. And he let inspectors back in when we threatened war again. (They had to leave so Bush could invade.) Why did he do that? Because Saddam didn't want us back.

When they had the Christmas tsunami in the Indian Ocean in 2004, Indonesia did not initially want US warships to provide any aid. Earthquakes in Iran?--same response. Why? Because once we are in, we stay. Who are we protecting Germany from (now--not 20 years ago but now)? Or Italy? Or Scotland? Or Japan? Or South Korea? I read recently that the US was less popular and considered more dangerous than North Korea by that country. China is currently more popular than we are, worldwide.

It's the old saw about how, when you have only a hammer, everything looks like a nail. For decades we have approached every problem as if force (overt or covert) could solve it. And instead all we do is create more problems, especially for ourselves. The CIA calls it "blowback" and that's exactly what 9/11 was.

We don't need to back down in the face of bullies. (I certainly wouldn't advocate that in the face of Republicans, or the NRA, or the Kochs.) And nobody is suggesting we disarm, or even decrease our military to parity with our closest competitor. But on the world stage WE are the bullies and yes, we should back off.