General Discussion

quaker bill

(8,265 posts)

131. I have no problem with the concept

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 08:56 PM

Jan 2013

I think when one takes any generalization and pushes it to the absolute, problems arise. I will posit that there is inherent privledge in being born straight, white and male. I will also state that I have met many such men who have realized little if anything from it. I do not consider myself among them.

I have benefitted from the inherent and tacit privledge given my race, orientation, and gender. I have no doubt about this. My spouse worked longer, harder, and smarter than I ever have and ran smack into the glass ceiling. I watched her struggle with it for years and she never got past it. I on the other hand passed through the barrier the way water goes through a windowscreen. The choices and work I have done in life made that opportunity available, but to get there on roughly the first attempt, twice now in two different organizations, I have no doubt was more than luck and smarts on my part.

I was able to fill a role, because people could see a white male doing it more easily than the other potential options. The fact that I did better than other white males attempting the same thing is my fault, but I have no doubt that I crossed the threshold easier.

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"Man-bashing." My favorite DU pule. [View all] WilliamPitt Jan 2013 OP

Any DU conversation about equality is a good thing leftstreet Jan 2013 #1

Yes. Tom Rinaldo Jan 2013 #2

If I can clarify your post just a little: lapislzi Jan 2013 #3

Actually, that too Tom Rinaldo Jan 2013 #6

Thank you for saying that. lapislzi Jan 2013 #21

Just as I, a white woman, benefit from white privelege duhneece Jan 2013 #132

Yes, like that. I benefit from several built in priviledges... Tom Rinaldo Jan 2013 #149

White privilege should be uncontroversial, imho. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #154

I think the comparison is a good one duhneece Jan 2013 #161

yes. It is a good one. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #168

That's why white privilege must be conflated with male privilege Major Nikon Jan 2013 #192

I noticed you didn't get a response from the other side on this in at least two different requests Major Nikon Jan 2013 #311

Thank you for noticing, but it has been far more than twice. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #313

yep... every man who resists the idea cites a personal exception. refuses to measure it apples to bettyellen Jan 2013 #5

Do people think they should be more wealthy than every single woman and African-American gollygee Jan 2013 #72

Eggsactly The comparisons are outrageously stupid. One said that his two sons were making less money bettyellen Jan 2013 #78

And they don't seem to understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #103

Yes! I pointed that out a few times, and they drop the conversation.... bettyellen Jan 2013 #109

It's a lot like the anti-affirmative action argument ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #112

he ran away BainsBane Jan 2013 #136

They shouldn't just make more money than their wives gollygee Jan 2013 #110

Beyonce and the Kardashians rule with money AND the ability to incite hormonal reactions in men, LOL bettyellen Jan 2013 #115

his example was that white men are the only group who earn less than their parents BainsBane Jan 2013 #138

If you're going to call me out, it's okay to do it by name. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #140

I did so directly to your post BainsBane Jan 2013 #141

Then why are you doing it here? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #151

why are you asking me? BainsBane Jan 2013 #156

I've gotten used to the stage-whisperers telling others what I think. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #157

that's when you clarify yourself BainsBane Jan 2013 #162

There was nothing ambiguous about what I said. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #165

Interestingly ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #79

My point is to refute that argument, because it always pops up Tom Rinaldo Jan 2013 #129

What makes it a false argument? hfojvt Jan 2013 #166

First off I am not "wagging fingers". I am Working Class for one thing Tom Rinaldo Jan 2013 #199

the whole point of this exercise is to wag finges hfojvt Jan 2013 #246

There are no or few privileges associated with being black Major Nikon Jan 2013 #194

you have been given so many examples you ignore. you dont believe in patriarchy, we get that. but, seabeyond Jan 2013 #195

You've also been given examples of female privilege you choose to ignore Major Nikon Jan 2013 #205

"Female privilege" marions ghost Jan 2013 #255

Evidently you haven't looked Major Nikon Jan 2013 #258

And I would argue that despite these negatives marions ghost Jan 2013 #260

Sure you can Major Nikon Jan 2013 #272

It is not ridiculous marions ghost Jan 2013 #281

I explained to you in detail why I didn't respond Major Nikon Jan 2013 #282

It's easy marions ghost Jan 2013 #294

Has nothing to do with privilege Major Nikon Jan 2013 #297

Sure it has to do with privilege marions ghost Jan 2013 #298

Why do you feel the need to shame men in order to make your arguments? Major Nikon Jan 2013 #302

I see marions ghost Jan 2013 #306

Discussing privilege is one of the hardest things to do. Brickbat Jan 2013 #4

I'm not sure it's all that difficult, but it seems to be for some Major Nikon Jan 2013 #48

See post #44. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #49

Not my post Major Nikon Jan 2013 #57

Tom Brady bashing... trumad Jan 2013 #7

i like tom brady. idd wonderful things for my fantasy team last year. lost him this year. seabeyond Jan 2013 #8

Yeah---I bet you have a fantasy. trumad Jan 2013 #11

hey.. that would be my whitten. seabeyond Jan 2013 #18

Not until Feb 4th. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #12

I don't want to live in a world where that's not okay. Iggo Jan 2013 #15

No it is not! edbermac Jan 2013 #75

Men cannot be feminists? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #9

As I am the author, that would be my opinion. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #14

Fair enough DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #19

for the record.... tomp Jan 2013 #184

Maybe that's because he followed that statement of belief with "Fact." GOTV Jan 2013 #185

As far as I'm concerned, it is fact. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #198

Then it's weird that you stepped back to it only being an "opinion" a few posts ago. Do you think GOTV Jan 2013 #285

It's "fact" when it suits him... sibelian Jan 2013 #307

I don't see the value in it either way Major Nikon Jan 2013 #312

I'm pretty sure we're both feminists--according to the dictionary, anyway. dorkulon Jan 2013 #90

Problem is, it's not simple. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #95

It's not a club, Will; it's a way of thinking. It doesn't cost anything. dorkulon Jan 2013 #99

it cost some of us a whole lot. do you know, on this board of progressives, women that speak out seabeyond Jan 2013 #101

I'm not trying to diminish that or claim it's untrue. dorkulon Jan 2013 #105

i thought it an interesting few steps in further insight. and... seabeyond Jan 2013 #114

claiming membership in something without having to pay any of the dues seabeyond Jan 2013 #100

What is the prevailing view r.e. definition of feminism? DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #107

i have more to explore with this, and good question. but, i am out of time. seabeyond Jan 2013 #116

thank you for the reply. n/t DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #119

But this is a ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #108

Try telling that to my husband, who was the head of a women's shelter. Zoeisright Jan 2013 #102

No, any more than white people can be abolitionists as they are neither black nor slaves. DRoseDARs Jan 2013 #65

I'd rather be an Equalist anyway. nt joeunderdog Jan 2013 #113

Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is TalkingDog Jan 2013 #10

love that. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #27

I'm laughing!!! hunter Jan 2013 #33

great graphic! n/t BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #38

That is a perfect graphic, and the linked blog post was excellent! Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #45

Perfect. Just stole and posted on... well, somewhere else. nt jobycom Jan 2013 #60

The best part: Zookeeper Jan 2013 #83

I'd pay real $$ for that tetris game Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #87

Unlimited ammo for a BFG ThoughtCriminal Jan 2013 #126

I'm stealing this! n/t backscatter712 Jan 2013 #153

That is brilliant! And funny. yardwork Jan 2013 #164

I think we need more threads talking about cop privilege snooper2 Jan 2013 #13

*whistle* WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #16

You know. The skirts have it made. I don't know what all the nagging is about. Guy Whitey Corngood Jan 2013 #17

Hear Hear, Mr. Pitt The Magistrate Jan 2013 #20

Exactly. The Brits Have An Expression For That HangOnKids Jan 2013 #24

Ah. So denial of its existence becomes... sibelian Jan 2013 #309

Not Quite Sure What You Are Driving at Here, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2013 #310

+1 ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #22

Here's a shortcut, Will, just point them to this: TygrBright Jan 2013 #23

How it is pointed out is more the issue with me. Throd Jan 2013 #25

The White Male Privilege thing is stupid. Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #26

The idea of "White Male Privilege" is difficult to understand when you pick one specific (if Brickbat Jan 2013 #30

I'd put it this way ... all else being equal ... there is White Male Privilage. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #37

studies have shown that white sounding names get up to 50% more chance of call back than black seabeyond Jan 2013 #40

And studies have shown that applicants for ditch digger and similar unskilled labor eridani Jan 2013 #182

There is no question that white privilege exists Major Nikon Jan 2013 #273

yes, you repeatedly make your point. racism? address. sexism? wha? no such thing. seabeyond Jan 2013 #274

When have I ever claimed sexism doesn't exist ever in any of my posts? Major Nikon Jan 2013 #276

really.... you haev made your position clear. i live in a state of men like you. i get it. seabeyond Jan 2013 #277

Wow, throw in some sexism as evidence that I am sexist Major Nikon Jan 2013 #278

I have to say your analogy is a bad one justiceischeap Jan 2013 #144

You made the case for why Unions are so important RobertEarl Jan 2013 #150

and, chances are that many non-white-male-straight people who wanted that job weren't considered spooky3 Jan 2013 #243

I don't think anyone here is denying that economic class divides the "haves" and "have nots"... YoungDemCA Jan 2013 #225

Well said. A lot of people have difficulty thinking in terms of distributions, degree/extent, etc. spooky3 Jan 2013 #242

Very true. Pule? Zorra Jan 2013 #28

Thank you for this one Warpy Jan 2013 #29

I grew up knowing that to be born white was to be privileged and that to be born black... freshwest Jan 2013 #31

K & R historylovr Jan 2013 #32

*clutches pearls* MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #34

Male privilege or dominance pscot Jan 2013 #35

There are many women who don't get it either. seabeyond Jan 2013 #41

I love you will Pitt sally5050 Jan 2013 #36

K and big R n/t geardaddy Jan 2013 #39

50 points to your house for using the word "pule." MineralMan Jan 2013 #42

+1000000 BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2013 #43

Wish I was as privileged as some people here seem to think I am. blueclown Jan 2013 #44

"25 year old straight white male who still works a crappy, close to minimum wage retail job" Scout Jan 2013 #69

Well stated. Thank you. nt DLevine Jan 2013 #71

Well said. yardwork Jan 2013 #111

You missed the point entirely lunatica Jan 2013 #77

now picture yourself as a female in a minimum wage retail job. noamnety Jan 2013 #148

See post 23 and go to the link tavalon Jan 2013 #215

Even if I didn't like the content of your post I'd have rec'd it for the use of "pule" Lone_Star_Dem Jan 2013 #46

Some of the whining I see when anyone dares to mention male tblue37 Jan 2013 #47

Getting tiresome now LittleBlue Jan 2013 #50

Thanks for the kick. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #51

I hope people see it LittleBlue Jan 2013 #56

Just because you see the threads doesn't mean every DUer does lunatica Jan 2013 #86

Looks like rec-fishing to me. nt Union Scribe Jan 2013 #123

And just maybe there are some privileged white men demwing Jan 2013 #52

That being the case, and THIS being the case..... Smarmie Doofus Jan 2013 #53

You named yourself well. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #55

Thanks, Will. Great post. nt s-cubed Jan 2013 #54

K&R and thanks. nt Chorophyll Jan 2013 #58

thank you SemperEadem Jan 2013 #59

Well done, you! nt jobycom Jan 2013 #61

k/r Solly Mack Jan 2013 #62

THANK YOU. n/t ProfessionalLeftist Jan 2013 #63

I'm grateful you said this Will but many of us saying the same thing get slammed every time. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #64

There Can Be Only One WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #66

Huge Highlander fans here!! riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #67

I could not love you more. nt rivegauche Jan 2013 #68

Preach it, brother. planetc Jan 2013 #70

i would have argued with will, this point, a year ago. not so much now. seabeyond Jan 2013 #84

This is precisely why many feminists say men cannot be feminists... redqueen Jan 2013 #104

It strikes me that this is yet another excuse to argue futilly over a term instead of ... planetc Jan 2013 #128

No, it isn't. redqueen Jan 2013 #143

That was good tavalon Jan 2013 #218

That's kinda like saying you're gay when you're a gay ally. justiceischeap Jan 2013 #147

You're conflating "patriarchy" with "privilege" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #130

One of the problems is the sexes are complementary not equal happyslug Jan 2013 #73

girls cant do math. seabeyond Jan 2013 #91

I was going to bring math up, but it is clearly cultural not innate happyslug Jan 2013 #117

the only thing i pulled out from your post, though interesting read, is when there is a physical seabeyond Jan 2013 #193

Good cultural anthro post. libdem4life Jan 2013 #159

But this "complementary" stuff is used as a facile excuse for any and all gender inequalities. nomorenomore08 Jan 2013 #181

"Girls can't... Boys can't..." Dash87 Jan 2013 #239

perfect. i have two brothers that were more nurturing than their wives. seabeyond Jan 2013 #248

Going down that road leads to an irreconcilable problem. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #263

You better talk to some child Psychiatrists about women and children happyslug Jan 2013 #275

I disagree. MadrasT Jan 2013 #304

I'VE HAD IT WITH MEN Skittles Jan 2013 #74

You are so naughty... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #76

I'VE HAD IT WITH WOMEN Aerows Jan 2013 #85

Mr. Pitt, I love you and always have Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #80

Reintroduce? WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #88

You're quibbling over my word choice... Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #92

Again... WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #93

And I love it when you feign being oblivious...(nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #94

What do you mean? WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #96

Yeah. Just like that...(nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Jan 2013 #98

Great excuse... trumad Jan 2013 #188

Here's how I handle it tavalon Jan 2013 #220

We all get scolded for that tavalon Jan 2013 #219

Now compare all your white men to black men lunatica Jan 2013 #89

He may be covered in grease and grime, Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #120

"...favorite DU pule." It's hard to pick one. Kudos to those who can, especially with all the retread Jan 2013 #81

How about if we invent some robots that it's OK to oppress? tclambert Jan 2013 #82

k&r Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #97

This belongs in Meta next to the puling OPs, but I'm giving it a kick and a rec anyway. yardwork Jan 2013 #106

I was informed that men can't be feminists some time back War Horse Jan 2013 #118

Definition of "feminist" in dictionary.com: Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #121

Sorry - I disagree on several points jimlup Jan 2013 #122

No one EVER talks about "White Female" privilege... Bonobo Jan 2013 #124

many white female acknowledge and discuss white female privilege thru out these threads. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #125

Well we should tavalon Jan 2013 #221

"but a man claiming to be a feminist is the equivalent of a hammer claiming to be a nail" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #127

Great post DaveJ Jan 2013 #134

The problem with issues like "male privilege" or "rape culture" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #139

it is only how you choose to interpret. many many men, whites, understand the concept seabeyond Jan 2013 #142

Being rhetorically kicked in the head is not subject to interpretation. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #152

There is white privilege. I am white. I am not being kicked in the head seabeyond Jan 2013 #155

I'll flat out say it -- I don't get it. DaveJ Jan 2013 #196

not long ago i had to deal with an issue with something in the house. i forget. but, male domain. seabeyond Jan 2013 #200

You just reminded me of a cute story tavalon Jan 2013 #223

"I asked him if he knew anything about plumbing and he said no" chucklin... seabeyond Jan 2013 #224

I suppose so tavalon Jan 2013 #284

How men see it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #237

Here's what "male privilege" gets you Major Nikon Jan 2013 #254

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #259

I know EXACTLY what you mean seabeyond, about marions ghost Jan 2013 #267

yup. seabeyond Jan 2013 #271

I recently had a door to door salesman ask for the "man of the house" MadrasT Jan 2013 #303

I think things are changing-- marions ghost Jan 2013 #305

Pay Equity--the big picture: marions ghost Jan 2013 #290

I have no problem with the concept quaker bill Jan 2013 #131

Thanks for your honesty marions ghost Jan 2013 #291

white man bashing BainsBane Jan 2013 #133

Fess up... greytdemocrat Jan 2013 #135

Will.... 'You've come a long way, baby..." LanternWaste Jan 2013 #137

Hawaiian word of the day: pule mahina Jan 2013 #145

Thank you for your understanding re: men claiming to be feminists. As you are obviously aware, many redqueen Jan 2013 #146

It feels to me gollygee Jan 2013 #158

Yep. It is hard to turn off the conditioning, it is not an on/off switch. redqueen Jan 2013 #190

Love ya, rq, but...no. Zorra Jan 2013 #173

What secluded pockets of society are so out of touch with patriarchy redqueen Jan 2013 #187

Thanks, redqueen. Maybe someone will successfully go about the process of redefining the word to Zorra Jan 2013 #287

Notice that men say things like "we" haven't defined feminism. redqueen Jan 2013 #288

I'm aware of the argument. Thank you. I repeat, Zorra Jan 2013 #292

Eons of patriarchy and internalized misogyny are enormously difficult to dislodge. redqueen Jan 2013 #295

I have told other white males 'this' a dozen + times RobertEarl Jan 2013 #160

My other 'getcha' to white males RobertEarl Jan 2013 #245

"the sexes are complimentary" marions ghost Jan 2013 #293

This message was self-deleted by its author sekha68 Jan 2013 #163

But BEYONCE'S a millionaire!!1 Thus, white and male privilege doesn't exist! Number23 Jan 2013 #167

Sure, one datapoint isn't useful. How about if we use ALL the datapoints? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #170

Jesus Christ, I'd give anything for you to stop responding to me Number23 Jan 2013 #172

If you don't want your opinions challenged, there are several solutions. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #174

The OP doesn't specify any country. That was your interpretation Number23 Jan 2013 #175

Equally politely declined. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #178

Upon stipulation: What if a man leverages that privilege? flvegan Jan 2013 #169

Leveraging the privilege WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #201

You're just redefining a word that already has a perfectly good definition. dorkulon Jan 2013 #247

"Words have meanings." WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #252

Thanks for the lesson; how edifying. dorkulon Jan 2013 #264

To edify once meant to put up a building. From the Latin �dificare, "to build, construct." WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #265

Is that really all you're going to give me? dorkulon Jan 2013 #266

Garble originally meant "to sort out" WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #268

You're just trolling me at this point. dorkulon Jan 2013 #270

I guess we're leaving it there, then. dorkulon Jan 2013 #299

Congratulations! WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #300

What a compelling argument. dorkulon Jan 2013 #301

Someone can completely accept the existence of male privelege... Silent3 Jan 2013 #171

+1 Vinnie From Indy Jan 2013 #177

EXACTLY the existance of white male privilege and female chauvanism are not mutually exclusive JAbuchan08 Jan 2013 #186

Exactly just1voice Jan 2013 #208

How about a gay man Fearless Jan 2013 #176

Far more than just 2000 years. Rex Jan 2013 #179

Your little girl has exactly the right dad eridani Jan 2013 #180

OK..."white male privilege" ibegurpard Jan 2013 #183

For the 100th time... WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #203

Well Mr. Pitt, trumad Jan 2013 #189

I disagree about the feminist thing. JoeyT Jan 2013 #191

Some 30 years ago, the National Lampoon summed it up nicely Burma Jones Jan 2013 #197

HEADS UP: Please see post 201 for elaboration on men being feminists WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #202

201 demonstrates you have your own definition which is not the mainstream definition Major Nikon Jan 2013 #206

I don't expect anything. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #207

You'd probably be understood better if you didn't attempt to pass off your opinions as fact Major Nikon Jan 2013 #214

I assume people are capable of nuance. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #216

The difference between fact and opinion is not nuance Major Nikon Jan 2013 #217

I looked up pule libodem Jan 2013 #204

I looked it up too. philly_bob Jan 2013 #230

Donkey cheese makes me whine libodem Jan 2013 #244

Yes to everything you just said tavalon Jan 2013 #209

The big problem I have theKed Jan 2013 #210

except, you would have to give at least one example of the desire to "bring white males down" seabeyond Jan 2013 #211

Are you say, then, theKed Jan 2013 #213

one example of the desire to "bring white males down". i ask you have an example seabeyond Jan 2013 #226

Have fun wandering down your little path of derailment theKed Jan 2013 #228

you make an argument with a falsehood to derail. i called you on it. you cannot answer. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #232

*sigh* WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #212

If "all were privileged", wouldn't the term "privilege" lose its meaning? YoungDemCA Jan 2013 #235

...I hope so? theKed Jan 2013 #236

It hasn't already? n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #261

See what I don't understand is grantcart Jan 2013 #222

I guess you missed this... YoungDemCA Jan 2013 #227

Yup, never got that whole "great personality" either. grantcart Jan 2013 #249

exactly. 70's, 80's we were on a good path forward. seabeyond Jan 2013 #231

The book "Backlash" by Susan Faludi offers an interesting explanation. spooky3 Jan 2013 #250

thank you spooky3 seabeyond Jan 2013 #251

You're welcome. Notice that the one-star reviews have this in common: spooky3 Jan 2013 #253

ha ha ha. feminazi. ya, thats it. lol. ya. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #256

I think you're confusing "settled" with "resolved" or "fixed". lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #241

From one man to another...well said YoungDemCA Jan 2013 #229

But "there is no misandry on DU." Pab Sungenis Jan 2013 #233

What misandry? YoungDemCA Jan 2013 #234

There is a fine line between challenging male privilege Pab Sungenis Jan 2013 #240

+++1! & Not differentiating the two does NO good service to social/economic justice. It, in fact, patrice Jan 2013 #262

...why are we like this? McDiggy Jan 2013 #238

+1 I don't get it either. I'm not a father; that doesn't mean that I don't understand fathering, nor patrice Jan 2013 #257

Answer one question marions ghost Jan 2013 #269

,.....I thopught about it...honestly, too... McDiggy Jan 2013 #283

I didn't say "live the life of Hillary"-- marions ghost Jan 2013 #289

Sorry, can't agree with you. McDiggy Jan 2013 #314

You need to realize marions ghost Jan 2013 #315

I disagree that men cannot be feminists. Deep13 Jan 2013 #279

WHAT is a p-u-l-e? benld74 Jan 2013 #280

Respectfully, you are confusing woman with feminist juanalderete Jan 2013 #286

A lot of this I agree with but call bs on men not being able to be feminists. uppityperson Jan 2013 #296

Which of us is more pleased with ourselves, Will? sibelian Jan 2013 #308