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In reply to the discussion: Thought-provoking article: "What 'Lincoln' misses and another Civil War film gets right".... [View all]Bucky
(55,334 posts)87. Oh good heavens.
He used the N-word and told racist jokes.
In the 19th century. So did lots of folks. So did LBJ, whose commitment to Civil Rights no sane person can doubt. Private behavior, however coarse by modern standards, is still not the same as public policy, which is entirely what Spielberg's Lincoln movie was about.
He once said African-Americans were inferior to whites.
Once? Hardly "once." He said it a number of times and in a number of ways. That has nothing at all to do with his clear moral stand against slavery. Although he pointed out the institution was bad for whites, consistently his arguments against slavery were always framed as unjust for black Americans.
For the record, he quite talking about racial superiority by the early 1860s. What he said in 1858 running for the Senate (when he made his most famous "not the equal of a white man" statement) was considerably different than what he said while president.
Lincoln evolved on the question. His evolution on slavery and racial relations are quite well documented by a number of historians. Whoever argues against the idea that Lincoln's views and policies changed over time is a fool and holds no weight in a serious historical discussion. After 1863, his rhetoric is quite frankly egalitarian on race issues, if still usually circumspect and politic. But then, the whole point of the movie is to show he was a politician.
He proposed ending slavery by shipping willing slaves back to Africa.
This is another thing he vaguely mentioned as a possibility early in his national career, but which he never proposed as a policy nor lobbied for as a private citizen. It was common, if ultimately ignorant, proposed solution by abolitionists who were put upon with the question: but what are we then going to do with all those people?
There were a few very limited attempts to establish a freedmen colony in the Caribbean Basin during the war. Most ended among corruption by colony managers and horrendous humanitarian nightmares in the actual colonization sites. These were only feeler missions, never a large policy of deportation. In the end, Lincoln did nothing to allay his entirely accurate fears of racial inharmony and he de facto treated freedmen like American citizens--which they were confirmed to be by law with the 14th Amendment.
Meet Abraham Lincoln, "The Great Emancipator" who "freed" the slaves.
If you remove those "quoties," you're a lot closer to the truth than the sarcastic and un-nuanced picture painted with those quotation marks. When it comes to personal enlightenment, no, Abraham was not exactly Albert Schweizer. But on an imaginary scale of 1 to 10, with Schweizer at a 10 and, say, Lester Maddox at a 1, Lincoln judged by his politics lands on the high end of the scale, despite growing up in an age when the average white American was probably south of the 3 tickmark.
Attacking Lincoln for not being enlightened by 21st century norms is a bit like insulting Orville and Wilbur because they couldn't keep it up for very long. Maybe their wives get to complain, but you* just need to shut up and admire them for their progress.
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*[font size="1"]I don't mean YOU you. I mean the guy who wrote the article as well as whoever agrees with these shallow critiques. So maybe I do mean you after all.[/font]
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Thought-provoking article: "What 'Lincoln' misses and another Civil War film gets right".... [View all]
OldDem2012
Jan 2013
OP
Well, Superman is a fantasy character, so that doesn't bother me as much. With Lincoln, he is
plethoro
Jan 2013
#31
I agree with your first paragraph--not the second. A man born of another country playing an American
plethoro
Jan 2013
#52
If it is your opinion that Natural Born Killers was one the best movies of the 90s, we
plethoro
Jan 2013
#69
What does that have to do with it? Thomas Moore was an English hero in England. Lincoln was an
plethoro
Jan 2013
#49
My fault. I meant Thomas Moore not Thomas Cromwell. I am conversing with Cromwell on
plethoro
Jan 2013
#53
Yes, Thomas Cromwell. That's why I talked about his 'master', ie Henry VIII,
muriel_volestrangler
Jan 2013
#54
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, riding through the land. Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, musket in his hand
Bucky
Jan 2013
#82
by the way,Jesus did not look like Brad Pitt. More likely Billy Dee Williams.(Lando, Star Wars)
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#104
Really? You reserve that right? Lol! So, who's funding your movie and when's it coming out?
Dark n Stormy Knight
Jan 2013
#108
the real problem is thinking Quentin Tarentino is an artiste'. No, he is not
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#106
So instead of turning to the class and saying, "See, this is what you are supposed to do.
jtuck004
Jan 2013
#45
the historian in the CNN video questions their portrayal of the 13th amendment battle
Enrique
Jan 2013
#32
Abigail received a slave as gift or inheritance. John said no slave will ever live in my house.
jody
Jan 2013
#6
John Adams was a northerner. He did not live from cotton or the other crops of the South.
JDPriestly
Jan 2013
#42
It appears the growth of a technological economy will divide those with intellectual abilities in
jody
Jan 2013
#58
Are you suggesting that slavery or the master/servant relationship is inevitable in the workplace.
JDPriestly
Jan 2013
#88
I said nothing about a "master/servant relationship" only the impact of a technological economy.
jody
Jan 2013
#90
Actually, in some human produced disaster, brawn could well be just as important as brains.
JDPriestly
Jan 2013
#91
Agree re the Acts but it wasn't clear how a president should use the veto. Washington @2, Adams @0,
jody
Jan 2013
#13
I do not believe that a woman who is a slave can truly consent to sex with her master.
Nye Bevan
Jan 2013
#70
Ummm.... yes, I'm speculating. For some reason I never saw the video surveillance footage.
Nye Bevan
Jan 2013
#73
Here's some FACTS that might help you out (along with some contextualizing speculation)
Bucky
Jan 2013
#84
Spielberg's film gives a non human view of Lincoln, I'll tolerate his faults knowing the good...
uponit7771
Jan 2013
#9
Lincoln was a product of his time. We should surprised that he held belief's common to that time.
Agnosticsherbet
Jan 2013
#27
Yes, I read that Lincoln did not recycle aluminum, tin, paper, glass and cardboard either.
The Midway Rebel
Jan 2013
#29
That Lincoln's views on race prior to becoming president were typical of his time
JDPriestly
Jan 2013
#35
I was expecting this to be a comparison to Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. n/t
ellisonz
Jan 2013
#48
It was a different time. I do not like the glossing over of Lincoln but the nature of
Lint Head
Jan 2013
#64
I loved "Lincoln". I think any film about an important historical figure is going to provoke a lot
Starry Messenger
Jan 2013
#65
... on January 1, 1864 ... Congressman Isaac Arnold, paid a New Years Day call on Mr. Lincoln.
struggle4progress
Jan 2013
#112
... For the first time in my life, and I suppose the first time in any colored man's life,
struggle4progress
Jan 2013
#114