General Discussion

gollygee

(22,336 posts)

26. My biggest issue is your last point

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 02:38 PM

Jan 2013

Male allies will stop supporting feminism unless feminists agree with a definition of "feminist" that includes men? I really think if that's the case, they never really supported it in the first place, honestly. I'm not comfortable changing my views of feminism or my definition of the word feminist for that reason. As I've said before, it isn't the job of feminists to placate men.

And I still think the word should be defined by feminists (and women) - not by people at large. It's our movement, and we should define the word. We will disagree - these are issues where women as a whole and feminists specifically disagree. But I think the definition is up to us.

People can call themselves what they want. I'm not the word police. I'm just trying to explain my reasons for my definition.

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The Utility of Restricting the Term Feminism to Women [View all] el_bryanto Jan 2013 OP

You forgot the F... lame54 Jan 2013 #1

Don't really hold with that el_bryanto Jan 2013 #2

Change comes when you bring people aboard - not alienate them lame54 Jan 2013 #4

Is that the only concern though? el_bryanto Jan 2013 #12

i want to be clear though. even though, over time, i have decided a man cannot be a feminist, seabeyond Jan 2013 #15

Same here. redqueen Jan 2013 #25

Yea that ship slipped into port and out agian Confusious Jan 2013 #68

thank you for this thoughtful, balanced OP seabeyond Jan 2013 #3

It's polarizing. Not a good idea in my opinion. Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #5

Just a question and comment on one point, polly7 Jan 2013 #6

This concept is far from new ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #7

That poll was useless. Should have been restricted to women. redqueen Jan 2013 #8

I do agree that it would have been more useful el_bryanto Jan 2013 #9

Just the fact that it wasn't automatically done that way speaks volumes redqueen Jan 2013 #10

That's a fair point n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #11

another thought. a man titles himself a feminist and there are all types of rewards. seabeyond Jan 2013 #13

That is a good point el_bryanto Jan 2013 #14

true. the pat on the back for the man would not happen in a group of men, here in texas seabeyond Jan 2013 #17

I do think the key point is that woman are punished for declaring themselves feminist. n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #24

You think I would get rewards for calling myself a feminist? dawg Jan 2013 #16

we did clarify that.... living in texas as i do. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #18

I don't call myself a feminist, but Georgia isn't the reason. dawg Jan 2013 #20

Like Jenny's hippie boyfriend from Forrest Gump! dawg Jan 2013 #21

ya, that. there is an element of that. i think the sincerity rings true though. seabeyond Jan 2013 #23

Often a man who declares himself a feminist is a Nice Guy (TM) KitSileya Jan 2013 #32

Do you think that a MTF Transsexual should qualify to be allowed to call herself a Feminist? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #52

It would be very healthy to this discussion WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #19

That is true; but not sure of the utility of including the rest of the world in the discussion el_bryanto Jan 2013 #22

My biggest issue is your last point gollygee Jan 2013 #26

I can see where you are coming from el_bryanto Jan 2013 #28

In my experience Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #27

I have to say most minorities don't have the luxory of doing this dsc Jan 2013 #29

Nobody said that gollygee Jan 2013 #30

"We don't want our movement to be defined or controlled by men" sibelian Jan 2013 #45

It should be clear that this isn't about restricting support for the feminist movement el_bryanto Jan 2013 #31

I don't necessarily think feminist = woman dsc Jan 2013 #33

the gay movement is about gays. the black movement is about blacks. the feminist movement is NOT seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

are you sure that's the case? CreekDog Jan 2013 #43

and being in an oppressed group i think you will find most all feminists involved are concerned seabeyond Jan 2013 #49

i'm not saying you're wrong about feminists, i'm saying you're wrong about... CreekDog Jan 2013 #55

of course they do creekdog, but i think you are missing the point. seabeyond Jan 2013 #58

"declaring yourself a feminist is kind of like declaring yourself an honorary woman" sibelian Jan 2013 #47

I think the issue is the attitude that that engenders el_bryanto Jan 2013 #50

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand the how people actually react to being told to screw off Kurska Jan 2013 #56

I think a certain amount of empathy is required to take this route el_bryanto Jan 2013 #69

I appreciate your post, I don't really have a proper response at this time though. Kurska Jan 2013 #71

interesting. seabeyond Jan 2013 #72

El bryanto is a man and you're a woman? I honestly had no idea. Kurska Jan 2013 #74

foolish and self defeating. how do you expect me to support. seabeyond Jan 2013 #91

I was dismissing the idea of restricting the term to women. Kurska Jan 2013 #92

I'm not the combative type (most of the time) el_bryanto Jan 2013 #77

actually, seabeyond Jan 2013 #89

.... sibelian Jan 2013 #63

I think many of us gollygee Jan 2013 #96

Did you ever think maybe YOUR assumptions and preconceptions about MEN are the problem? Bonobo Jan 2013 #93

Percieved Slights of a personal nature el_bryanto Jan 2013 #106

"Many men have a NATURAL tendency to TAKE OVER." Bonobo Jan 2013 #107

if that is what it takes libodem Jan 2013 #102

We should all just have a gender-neutral term to describe us TransitJohn Jan 2013 #35

and when talking all issues of equality i call it humanist. yours works. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #36

So you think feminism shouldn't even exist as a movement gollygee Jan 2013 #37

and when i am talking womens issues, i am a feminist. seabeyond Jan 2013 #38

Holy cow, way to put words in people's mouths. TransitJohn Jan 2013 #41

From the definition given yesterday, I think the answer is yes. MissMarple Jan 2013 #39

There's a difference between saying "I am a feminist" versus merely "I am not entirely awful." LeftyMom Jan 2013 #40

How I see the distinction: Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #42

"Society has conditioned men to think that they are naturally in charge" sibelian Jan 2013 #44

breathtaking, sweeping generalization datasuspect Jan 2013 #46

WHY IS IT that people who have been the victims of prejudice think they're immune from it themselves sibelian Jan 2013 #48

I perhaps should have clarified that to be American Society el_bryanto Jan 2013 #70

"When man display leadership qualities they are admired... sibelian Jan 2013 #94

The whole premise of the feminist movement seems to be lost seabeyond Jan 2013 #98

For the purpose you describe how do you define the term woman? aikoaiko Jan 2013 #51

Interesting question. Can a pre-op transsexual be a feminist? Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #54

Why do you assume people who disagree with you are obsessed? gollygee Jan 2013 #75

I know there has been huge heated debate about this in feminist circles gollygee Jan 2013 #73

You forgot foolish and self defeating. Kurska Jan 2013 #53

that is not what anyone is saying. and have repeatedly stated they have not said. as a matter of seabeyond Jan 2013 #57

No matter what you think you are saying, the messaging you are sending is just as important. Kurska Jan 2013 #59

do you need a title to support blacks? do you need a title to support gays? of course you do not. seabeyond Jan 2013 #60

It has nothing to do with a title, it has everything to do with not being made to feel welcome. Kurska Jan 2013 #62

O. kay. seabeyond Jan 2013 #64

I see that you're conceding the conversation, wonderful! I'll go elsewhere n/t Kurska Jan 2013 #65

Thank you. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #103

Two things gollygee Jan 2013 #76

I just don't see the need to segregate terms based on gender. Kurska Jan 2013 #78

I'm tired of it being about what will turn men on or off, honestly gollygee Jan 2013 #79

I'm gay, gay rights is my movement. Kurska Jan 2013 #81

I am straight and I hope I'm an ally in the gay rights movement gollygee Jan 2013 #83

In a movement based on equality, I feel like what should be important is your views Kurska Jan 2013 #84

I appreciate your input gollygee Jan 2013 #85

Thank you, I was glad to have the conversation. n/t Kurska Jan 2013 #86

"I'll support you only if you let me define your movement and the terms that are a part of it" sibelian Jan 2013 #97

No. gollygee Jan 2013 #99

From you. sibelian Jan 2013 #100

It's twisting my words gollygee Jan 2013 #101

To be honest, this is starting to turn me off to the label "feminist" LittleBlue Jan 2013 #80

+1 Kurska Jan 2013 #82

The issue is that gollygee Jan 2013 #88

The only people who are making it about issues other than women LittleBlue Jan 2013 #90

Who said I was offended? gollygee Jan 2013 #95

+1000. The divisiveness has turned me off too ..... and I'm a woman. polly7 Jan 2013 #104

Other issues aside, that's not enforceable. Imagine going around demanding that men not be feminist! patrice Jan 2013 #61

I think this whole discussion is a waste of time. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #66

Evidently many people disagree with you n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #67

Have fun. n/t Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #87

This: "But it may be equally likely that a man describing himself as feminist Zorra Jan 2013 #105