"Man-bashing." My favorite DU pule.

[Zorra]

287. Thanks, redqueen. Maybe someone will successfully go about the process of redefining the word to

make it fit the definition they desire. It seems to me that it would be a waste of time and effort; we have much bigger fish to fry.

The thing is, I don't know that any woman can completely understand what it means to be a woman either. I don't seem to be able to, and I've never encountered one who has claimed to know, although I have discussed the subject in depth with quite a few of them, and read much conjecture on the subject. If you can accurately tell me exactly what it means to be a woman, I will be sincerely and eternally grateful, because at my age, I am still trying to figure it out. The interesting thing here is, in these aforementioned discussions, I have heard some men (and these were not women who were born transsexual, and who recognized their nature at any early age), these were men, who never remotely experienced the condition of growing up female, expressed what were, in my estimation, ideas/feelings that seemed to be more insightful and understanding about what it means to be a woman, and on the condition of women, than more than a few women were were able to express to me.

The venerable and prophetic Simone de Beauvoir, one of my favorite "feminist existentialist" thinkers/authors/characters, believed that existence precedes essence, which I believe to be the motivational idea behind her famous quote, "One is not born a woman, one becomes one".

Actually, IMO, the OP, although it was written by a man, and I believe is important and essentially true although somewhat technically inaccurate, is more insightful and knowledgeable about the condition of women (and feminism) than anything I have been able to extract from some women who appear to have done little societal analysis/self-analysis.

So I have been led to consider that consciousness and empathy can sometimes transcend experience with regard to assessment of phenomena or noumena. The concept of understanding appears to me to be a psychological process related to abstract or physical things, and generally requires thought.

Other than personal experiences and thoughts, I have no way to completely understand what it means to be a woman either. Most of what I believe I know is only what I feel and think.

I. Only me.

I only know what it means to be me, and I can only speak from personal experience.

Naturally, as a somewhat educated, very uninhibited and rebellious, primarily lesbian/but technically bisexual woman who has been sometimes described by others as someone who thinks too much, I have an enormous amount of unresolved resentment toward the continuing restrictive mores and conditions, of inequality that this patriarchal system forces upon me/us. Because of this, I'm grateful for any support from sincere male allies who have any reasonable empathy toward, and understanding, of the issues that face women in this society and on this planet, and if they want to refer to themselves as feminists, that's just fine with me, I'd prefer to nurture their interest, concern, advocacy, and participation rather than discourage them.

Part of this nurturing process is helping them to understand that they should never, ever try to co-opt feminism or assume that they can have authority over women in the feminist movement. IMO, it is imperative for any man who wishes to be recognized as a feminist to understand that we are sick and tired of this invasive and all pervasive systemic patriarchy that has caused the overwhelming majority of men to both consciously and unconsciously assume that they have some type of completely natural divinely granted authority/dominance over women. (Unfortunately, as you probably know, far too many women do not recognize or understand this stone cold fact of our past/present world reality either).

From my POV, a man being recognized by women as a co-feminist would necessarily be predicated upon this particular empathic recognition and understanding:

Never presume to know what women need to do in any area related to feminism.

The Onion satire that you posted was perfect.

If a man genuinely and completely understands the history and reasons behind this, I personally could possibly consider them co-feminists, respective of some other conditions as well. Much more so than more than a few women who grew up totally immersed in the patriarchal matrix and never saw it for what it was.

Redqueen, you have my sincerest thanks for your admonition regarding me telling you "no" in my previous subject line. I humbly apologize; I was completely wrong, I had no right to do that whatsoever, and will do my best never do anything like that again in the future.
~ ~ ~

When feminism stops being a living, vibrant, changing movement, and morphs into a stagnant, exclusive, divisive, dysfunctional, authoritarian dogmatic religion primarily dedicated to reciting its own scripture over and over, it loses most of its power to grow as new information is gathered, and subsequently, it loses its power to significantly change itself and anything else as well. Regardless of the conditions I grew up under, and live under at present, I am still responsible for me and I take that responsibility seriously, and one avenue by which I do this is by successfully creating my own independent reality to the greatest extent that I possibly can, and by doing that which is most effective to change the environmental factors that have attempted to put oppressive and restrictive pressure on me as a woman, an LGBT person, and as a dark skinned person in a culture long dominated by light skinned people.

Change comes through individual and collective transcendence, not through puling immanence. Telling men they cannot be feminists is counterproductive and insulting, especially considering what feminist means as defined. Of course most men have not been socialized as females. This does not make them blind or stupid. I don't feel threatened by the few hostile and/or ignorant male poseurs. If a man sincerely wishes to identify as a feminist, or male ally, more power to him.

And to me as well. I cannot and will not be co-opted, so the basically harmless, positive self-identification of others does not affect me. Anyone who sincerely wishes and works to help me attain greater individual and collective freedom is welcome aboard my train.

My rights are their rights.