General Discussion

thucythucy

(9,135 posts)

90. "That it might cause harm...."

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 09:00 PM

Jan 2013

I think in the case of Newtown it was pretty clearly demonstrated that this type of weapon DID cause harm, CAN cause harm, and unfortunately I think there is little doubt it WILL cause harm again.

If a model of washing machine was shown to cause the deaths of twenty children at a time, I can guarantee that washing machine would be taken off the market immediately, regardless of how many had already been sold. We recall hundreds of thousands of defective automobiles at a time, and no one rants about it. "But I WANT my car! Don't you understand, the odds of MY car's gas tank exploding are absolutely miniscule? We need to pursue the path of least harm..." You never hear it.

But somehow, when it comes to guns, it's like we're treading sacred ground even to consider a ban or recall.

The OP is exactly right, this society is fucking nuts.

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In 1966 I was trained with the M-14. I was taught [View all] upaloopa Jan 2013 OP

K&R Sherman A1 Jan 2013 #1

Hear Hear, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2013 #2

Recommended NNN0LHI Jan 2013 #28

+ 1000 loyalsister Jan 2013 #68

Recommended, and thank you. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #3

BIG K&R Ernesto Jan 2013 #4

Bill Mauldin said it best: hedgehog Jan 2013 #5

As a history buff and nephew of 2 wwII vets, I loved Bill Mauldin's books. It made me libinnyandia Jan 2013 #70

I don't follow you. As the daughter of a WWII vet and a niece of others, maddiemom Jan 2013 #87

Bill Mauldin wrote about WWII weren't always treated well when they returned home. libinnyandia Jan 2013 #89

Watch the movie "The Best Years of Our Lives" sweetloukillbot Jan 2013 #94

I didn't see it that way Squaredeal Jan 2013 #151

The movie did eventually have a happy ending... sweetloukillbot Jan 2013 #176

When I got back into college after VN in 1969, I got $130/month on the GI Bill-- Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #102

My Dad's favorite "Willie and Joe" Mopar151 Jan 2013 #93

+1 uponit7771 Jan 2013 #137

"Sort of like the Super Bowl" really nails it. Speck Tater Jan 2013 #6

Same way during Gulf War I Fumesucker Jan 2013 #8

Ditto OIF 2003-2004 pasto76 Jan 2013 #58

I had the same experience many times. upaloopa Jan 2013 #12

I've often wondered about sports fandom and war cheering and whether they're related. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #38

Very well said. pangaia Jan 2013 #74

ok, so here's a strange thing DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2013 #77

Probably has to do with the pace of the game. n/t SwankyXomb Jan 2013 #120

I agree again. pangaia Jan 2013 #192

Mr. Carlin Agrees, Sir.... The Magistrate Jan 2013 #130

yes, that one is a classic. pangaia Jan 2013 #173

Hey... druidity33 Jan 2013 #92

Ask you dad The Wizard Jan 2013 #99

wonderful satire, billy lynn's long halftime walk msedano Jan 2013 #172

K&R Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #7

I never bought a weapon and don't plan on ever owning one but... LiberalLoner Jan 2013 #9

Well I think you are nuts then. Comfortable with? upaloopa Jan 2013 #14

I agree, that's why I don't own one. But it's the only weapon LiberalLoner Jan 2013 #32

Pretty damned harsh, dontcha think??? southshore Jan 2013 #168

Did you ever walk point on a patrol? Bandit Jan 2013 #47

I had both a sawed off Winchester model 12 and a M-79. upaloopa Jan 2013 #56

Different time, different war, and a different way of doing things Victor_c3 Jan 2013 #149

Things have definitely gotten better for our troops. Bandit Jan 2013 #177

don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not envious at all Victor_c3 Jan 2013 #178

Dad told me no one that ever had to wipe the brains of his fellow Marine off his face would ever Ikonoklast Jan 2013 #10

My dad was a helicopter mechanic and door gunner in Vietnam. Turned down some lucrative Erose999 Jan 2013 #159

Absoutely. ellisonz Jan 2013 #11

The comforting news is that they (assault-type rifles) account for a tiny fraction of gun-homicide. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #13

Is all you can do is post stats? Isn't 20 kids dead in upaloopa Jan 2013 #17

Posting stats and facts... as opposed to Logical fallacies? OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #23

Your about a week behind the times. Society is upaloopa Jan 2013 #26

Don't count on it. LAGC Jan 2013 #152

Passing by too fast.. southshore Jan 2013 #169

first of all the fact those things exist BainsBane Jan 2013 #95

I think you've replied to the wrong subthread. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #104

so then you're advocating for prohibiting hand guns? BainsBane Jan 2013 #115

That would appear to be the logical solutions to taking a real bite out of homicides. nt OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #119

you'll get no argument from me BainsBane Jan 2013 #131

We do have a sick culture BobbyBoring Jan 2013 #186

"1 death is a tragedy. One millions deaths is simply a statistic." LanternWaste Jan 2013 #100

And we live in a nation where laws govern hundres of millions of people. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #108

Then banning them will not be a problem.... jpak Jan 2013 #18

And nor will it solve anything. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #25

Yes it will - gun massacre nuts will not be able to use them jpak Jan 2013 #31

Most "gun massacre nuts" are already not using them. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #42

well ban them, take the off the streets and they'll be using them even less win win uponit7771 Jan 2013 #139

How does banning something seldom used accomplish anything?? HooptieWagon Jan 2013 #143

And then you'll have spent all your political capital sir pball Jan 2013 #181

Oh no! If we try to keep people from dying, Dems will lose!!!! AllyCat Jan 2013 #183

Well you again have to attack my timing of events upaloopa Jan 2013 #19

Correct, your chronological awareness doesn't "fucking detract from what you said". OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #29

Listen, Americans are tired of the killing upaloopa Jan 2013 #35

If they're tired of killings, why not support laws that can ACTUALLY put a dent in them? OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #51

It doesn't matter how few or how many. This year they were upaloopa Jan 2013 #55

I'll address it, 1/10-O'-1, BlueNoteSpecial Jan 2013 #43

Protip: It's easier just to type "0.1%" nt OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #59

@ BlueNoteSpecial Jan 2013 #158

3.7% of all rifles vs. 1 in 4 assault rifles = massively disproportionate representation. ellisonz Jan 2013 #48

Not how I remember things Bandit Jan 2013 #50

Armalite developed the AR10 in '57 OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #69

Bravo - that is why they are known as "gun nuts". jpak Jan 2013 #15

Then banning them is pointless. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #24

Banning them will take them away from gun nut massacre types jpak Jan 2013 #33

Perhaps. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #75

Sounds like a plan! Nt jmg257 Jan 2013 #81

It should be a felony to own them jpak Jan 2013 #107

*shrug* Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #112

keeping them is also pointless.. frylock Jan 2013 #61

True...which then makes the question one of approach. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #78

"That it might cause harm...." thucythucy Jan 2013 #90

Sure...but there's the matter of proportion. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #111

Seems to me, with the proposals I've seen thucythucy Jan 2013 #133

If they were banned long ago sellitman Jan 2013 #145

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Skittles Jan 2013 #63

Bravo, Skittles! Bravo! LanternWaste Jan 2013 #73

For someone "not listening," you seem oddly driven to respond. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #79

LOLOL Skittles Jan 2013 #191

Nice strawman. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #193

trotting out the STRAWMAN Skittles Jan 2013 #194

If you don't like your comedy-tier errors pointed out... Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #195

K &R Squinch Jan 2013 #16

Truely great OP. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #20

Yessir. 99Forever Jan 2013 #21

Did you get " The Theory of the Bayonet"? pscot Jan 2013 #22

Yeah, I had to stab some target and yell something. upaloopa Jan 2013 #34

What is the spirit of the bayonet? The Wizard Jan 2013 #105

Spirit? That sounds really New Age pscot Jan 2013 #125

New Age? The Wizard Jan 2013 #135

That also was the spirit of the hand to hand fighter. We had to yell kill kill kill also. upaloopa Jan 2013 #126

+1,000 freshwest Jan 2013 #27

Preach It!!! nt MrScorpio Jan 2013 #30

i agree with you about the... actslikeacarrot Jan 2013 #36

I feel the same way! mailman82 Jan 2013 #37

People don't have a problem with hunting type guns upaloopa Jan 2013 #45

Semi-automatics with detachable magazines is "most guns" Recursion Jan 2013 #62

K&R, one gazillion times! ReRe Jan 2013 #39

K&R. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #40

It's sort of like the mentality of people janx Jan 2013 #41

I too was trained on the M-14 and M-16 in 1966 doc03 Jan 2013 #44

Welcome home alcibiades_mystery Jan 2013 #46

NRA talking drones in 3...2....1..... GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #49

Infantry combat vet here. tabasco Jan 2013 #52

What you said... only more so. Semper Fi. nt Bigmack Jan 2013 #53

War is glorified in our society Major Nikon Jan 2013 #54

War is never fun. In_The_Wind Jan 2013 #57

I doubt I would ever buy a rifle, but if I did it would probably be an AR Recursion Jan 2013 #60

I've been screaming the same thing for years ! jaysunb Jan 2013 #64

Since 9/11, we've trained another 5 million people on the M-16 or equivalent FarCenter Jan 2013 #65

war games mozan Jan 2013 #66

K&R, but paintball is kinda fun. dorkulon Jan 2013 #67

I dunno...The one time I went, almost half in the group were kids Blue_Tires Jan 2013 #174

I agree 100%. I'm a Gulf War vet, although I have no doubt my experiences were as nothing compared Aristus Jan 2013 #71

After 6 months in Vietnam I turned against the upaloopa Jan 2013 #85

"Nothing creates a pacifist quite as effectively as war... " nikto Jan 2013 #147

Thank you for your service and this post. erinlough Jan 2013 #179

... TahitiNut Jan 2013 #72

Thank you tavalon Jan 2013 #76

You bring up a good point. LittleGirl Jan 2013 #80

Thank you ismnotwasm Jan 2013 #82

The M-14 itself is a powerful weapon. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #83

An M-14 standard round The Wizard Jan 2013 #109

"the M-14 ... fires 7.62mm cartridges, the same as the AK-47 ..." AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #117

combat training was designed to make us want to run toward the muzzle flash... msedano Jan 2013 #84

We had to crawl under machine gun fire in basic upaloopa Jan 2013 #88

Loved 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #86

It's going to take more than a band of old fat asses with cool rifles for the "revolution" BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #153

Aww man, and I just maxed out my credit card at Guns-N-Ammo.com too Erose999 Jan 2013 #162

Thanks...talk about central casting BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #167

You Missed 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #165

So the American citizens, as presently armed, constitute a real threat to the military? BeyondGeography Jan 2013 #170

We are now 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #180

Same here madokie Jan 2013 #91

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #96

It was 1966 that our Army switched over from the M14 to the M16 1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #98

They jammed a lot especially if you get into any moisture or dirt. upaloopa Jan 2013 #123

The one they issued to me had a machining error, the bullets would not load 1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #155

Hey that machining error nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #187

I think you are saying I killed innocent people. Maybe I did, I'm not sure. My draft notice upaloopa Jan 2013 #124

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #136

Whoa, he was drafted. What reason did he have to doubt his government was lying to him? Selatius Jan 2013 #138

Post removed because I accidentally hit post before I completed my post Taitertots Jan 2013 #140

I never defended involvement in Viet Nam. My family suffered that war personally. nt Selatius Jan 2013 #141

My previous post was edited... Taitertots Jan 2013 #142

K&R CrazyOrangeCat Jan 2013 #97

What about making "tactical weapons" an elite class, with a license/registration/security deal? Mopar151 Jan 2013 #101

In 1966" leanforward Jan 2013 #103

Did WWI vets think the same about bolt action rifles? hack89 Jan 2013 #106

That's clearly not the point. This is 2013. Last year there were several mass shootings where the upaloopa Jan 2013 #121

And the fixation on rifles obscures a much bigger point hack89 Jan 2013 #134

I'm willing to bet that the AWB will be renewed this year and soon. The NRA the right the gun lobby upaloopa Jan 2013 #164

What if the next mass shooting is a repeat of Va Tech? hack89 Jan 2013 #175

Re: The OP SCVDem Jan 2013 #110

Wow! Powerful stuff! Bay Boy Jan 2013 #171

Perfect. Thank you! MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #113

That's why I stick with civilian sporting rifles like my AR's ileus Jan 2013 #114

K&R. We're In An Era Where A Lot Of Firearms Aren't Designed For Grown-ups. (nt) Paladin Jan 2013 #116

Thank you for this... peace13 Jan 2013 #118

Yeah, because civilians shouldn't enjoy the benefits of incremental improvements in gun technology! krispos42 Jan 2013 #122

I feel your pain. Poor thing. Hugs. Hoyt Jan 2013 #127

I know, I have such unreasonable expectations. krispos42 Jan 2013 #128

6 yr old citizens should have the right to grow up not be murdered in school. If that means you upaloopa Jan 2013 #129

Go shovel your false equivalency someplace else. krispos42 Jan 2013 #132

But privacy is actually important. DanTex Jan 2013 #157

With all due respect, you're not the king of DU. The OP is as welcome as you to share his views Heidi Jan 2013 #160

And I'm sharing my opinion of where his false-equivalency arguments should be krispos42 Jan 2013 #190

I wouldn't mind an M1A because it fits me well riqster Jan 2013 #144

Cowboys and Indians. It's all pretend horror just like in books and movies. Kablooie Jan 2013 #146

Very well put judesedit Jan 2013 #148

"In war they fucking shoot back!" It is all captured there, isn't it? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #150

And that, in a nutshell, is why the use of drones is murder, not an act of war. 1-Old-Man Jan 2013 #156

Well, okay. Is that relevant? Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #163

The Anerican public thinks of war like a football game. Dash87 Jan 2013 #154

I agree 100%. We should be preaching to our children that there is nothing sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #161

War is the greatest sin mankind commits randr Jan 2013 #166

I get the appeal of playing army when you are 11. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #182

I was trained ip5683 Jan 2013 #184

We're not talking about kids playing war. upaloopa Jan 2013 #185

I've not been to war- digonswine Jan 2013 #188

All class upaloopa toby jo Jan 2013 #189