General Discussion

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)

89. actually,

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:05 PM

Jan 2013

i think this is a great thread in understanding. as a matter of fact, in one of the feminist forum, it allowed us to have a conversation to better understanding how we feel about the issue.

the point of bring it to your attention is not a need for any combativeness. i do not know the poster, nor really care. but, i thought it was a good example of concerns. i thought it illustrated the issue a little more finely than others.

and it was not to get you to play referee or even make a comment on it.

after a couple days on these threads and listening to so many different thoughts on the issue, i can live with holding my views in a minority. like i said in another post, it is not like i would ever tell a man he isnt, that claims he is a feminist.

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Highlight:

The Utility of Restricting the Term Feminism to Women [View all] el_bryanto Jan 2013 OP

You forgot the F... lame54 Jan 2013 #1

Don't really hold with that el_bryanto Jan 2013 #2

Change comes when you bring people aboard - not alienate them lame54 Jan 2013 #4

Is that the only concern though? el_bryanto Jan 2013 #12

i want to be clear though. even though, over time, i have decided a man cannot be a feminist, seabeyond Jan 2013 #15

Same here. redqueen Jan 2013 #25

Yea that ship slipped into port and out agian Confusious Jan 2013 #68

thank you for this thoughtful, balanced OP seabeyond Jan 2013 #3

It's polarizing. Not a good idea in my opinion. Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #5

Just a question and comment on one point, polly7 Jan 2013 #6

This concept is far from new ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #7

That poll was useless. Should have been restricted to women. redqueen Jan 2013 #8

I do agree that it would have been more useful el_bryanto Jan 2013 #9

Just the fact that it wasn't automatically done that way speaks volumes redqueen Jan 2013 #10

That's a fair point n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #11

another thought. a man titles himself a feminist and there are all types of rewards. seabeyond Jan 2013 #13

That is a good point el_bryanto Jan 2013 #14

true. the pat on the back for the man would not happen in a group of men, here in texas seabeyond Jan 2013 #17

I do think the key point is that woman are punished for declaring themselves feminist. n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #24

You think I would get rewards for calling myself a feminist? dawg Jan 2013 #16

we did clarify that.... living in texas as i do. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #18

I don't call myself a feminist, but Georgia isn't the reason. dawg Jan 2013 #20

Like Jenny's hippie boyfriend from Forrest Gump! dawg Jan 2013 #21

ya, that. there is an element of that. i think the sincerity rings true though. seabeyond Jan 2013 #23

Often a man who declares himself a feminist is a Nice Guy (TM) KitSileya Jan 2013 #32

Do you think that a MTF Transsexual should qualify to be allowed to call herself a Feminist? Warren DeMontague Jan 2013 #52

It would be very healthy to this discussion WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #19

That is true; but not sure of the utility of including the rest of the world in the discussion el_bryanto Jan 2013 #22

My biggest issue is your last point gollygee Jan 2013 #26

I can see where you are coming from el_bryanto Jan 2013 #28

In my experience Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #27

I have to say most minorities don't have the luxory of doing this dsc Jan 2013 #29

Nobody said that gollygee Jan 2013 #30

"We don't want our movement to be defined or controlled by men" sibelian Jan 2013 #45

It should be clear that this isn't about restricting support for the feminist movement el_bryanto Jan 2013 #31

I don't necessarily think feminist = woman dsc Jan 2013 #33

the gay movement is about gays. the black movement is about blacks. the feminist movement is NOT seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

are you sure that's the case? CreekDog Jan 2013 #43

and being in an oppressed group i think you will find most all feminists involved are concerned seabeyond Jan 2013 #49

i'm not saying you're wrong about feminists, i'm saying you're wrong about... CreekDog Jan 2013 #55

of course they do creekdog, but i think you are missing the point. seabeyond Jan 2013 #58

"declaring yourself a feminist is kind of like declaring yourself an honorary woman" sibelian Jan 2013 #47

I think the issue is the attitude that that engenders el_bryanto Jan 2013 #50

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand the how people actually react to being told to screw off Kurska Jan 2013 #56

I think a certain amount of empathy is required to take this route el_bryanto Jan 2013 #69

I appreciate your post, I don't really have a proper response at this time though. Kurska Jan 2013 #71

interesting. seabeyond Jan 2013 #72

El bryanto is a man and you're a woman? I honestly had no idea. Kurska Jan 2013 #74

foolish and self defeating. how do you expect me to support. seabeyond Jan 2013 #91

I was dismissing the idea of restricting the term to women. Kurska Jan 2013 #92

I'm not the combative type (most of the time) el_bryanto Jan 2013 #77

actually, seabeyond Jan 2013 #89

.... sibelian Jan 2013 #63

I think many of us gollygee Jan 2013 #96

Did you ever think maybe YOUR assumptions and preconceptions about MEN are the problem? Bonobo Jan 2013 #93

Percieved Slights of a personal nature el_bryanto Jan 2013 #106

"Many men have a NATURAL tendency to TAKE OVER." Bonobo Jan 2013 #107

if that is what it takes libodem Jan 2013 #102

We should all just have a gender-neutral term to describe us TransitJohn Jan 2013 #35

and when talking all issues of equality i call it humanist. yours works. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #36

So you think feminism shouldn't even exist as a movement gollygee Jan 2013 #37

and when i am talking womens issues, i am a feminist. seabeyond Jan 2013 #38

Holy cow, way to put words in people's mouths. TransitJohn Jan 2013 #41

From the definition given yesterday, I think the answer is yes. MissMarple Jan 2013 #39

There's a difference between saying "I am a feminist" versus merely "I am not entirely awful." LeftyMom Jan 2013 #40

How I see the distinction: Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #42

"Society has conditioned men to think that they are naturally in charge" sibelian Jan 2013 #44

breathtaking, sweeping generalization datasuspect Jan 2013 #46

WHY IS IT that people who have been the victims of prejudice think they're immune from it themselves sibelian Jan 2013 #48

I perhaps should have clarified that to be American Society el_bryanto Jan 2013 #70

"When man display leadership qualities they are admired... sibelian Jan 2013 #94

The whole premise of the feminist movement seems to be lost seabeyond Jan 2013 #98

For the purpose you describe how do you define the term woman? aikoaiko Jan 2013 #51

Interesting question. Can a pre-op transsexual be a feminist? Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #54

Why do you assume people who disagree with you are obsessed? gollygee Jan 2013 #75

I know there has been huge heated debate about this in feminist circles gollygee Jan 2013 #73

You forgot foolish and self defeating. Kurska Jan 2013 #53

that is not what anyone is saying. and have repeatedly stated they have not said. as a matter of seabeyond Jan 2013 #57

No matter what you think you are saying, the messaging you are sending is just as important. Kurska Jan 2013 #59

do you need a title to support blacks? do you need a title to support gays? of course you do not. seabeyond Jan 2013 #60

It has nothing to do with a title, it has everything to do with not being made to feel welcome. Kurska Jan 2013 #62

O. kay. seabeyond Jan 2013 #64

I see that you're conceding the conversation, wonderful! I'll go elsewhere n/t Kurska Jan 2013 #65

Thank you. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #103

Two things gollygee Jan 2013 #76

I just don't see the need to segregate terms based on gender. Kurska Jan 2013 #78

I'm tired of it being about what will turn men on or off, honestly gollygee Jan 2013 #79

I'm gay, gay rights is my movement. Kurska Jan 2013 #81

I am straight and I hope I'm an ally in the gay rights movement gollygee Jan 2013 #83

In a movement based on equality, I feel like what should be important is your views Kurska Jan 2013 #84

I appreciate your input gollygee Jan 2013 #85

Thank you, I was glad to have the conversation. n/t Kurska Jan 2013 #86

"I'll support you only if you let me define your movement and the terms that are a part of it" sibelian Jan 2013 #97

No. gollygee Jan 2013 #99

From you. sibelian Jan 2013 #100

It's twisting my words gollygee Jan 2013 #101

To be honest, this is starting to turn me off to the label "feminist" LittleBlue Jan 2013 #80

+1 Kurska Jan 2013 #82

The issue is that gollygee Jan 2013 #88

The only people who are making it about issues other than women LittleBlue Jan 2013 #90

Who said I was offended? gollygee Jan 2013 #95

+1000. The divisiveness has turned me off too ..... and I'm a woman. polly7 Jan 2013 #104

Other issues aside, that's not enforceable. Imagine going around demanding that men not be feminist! patrice Jan 2013 #61

I think this whole discussion is a waste of time. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #66

Evidently many people disagree with you n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #67

Have fun. n/t Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #87

This: "But it may be equally likely that a man describing himself as feminist Zorra Jan 2013 #105