General Discussion

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)

111. Just the facts ma'am.

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 04:45 PM

Jan 2013

I'm dealing with facts here and the facts are that how people look has long been a matter of legislation and it's damn near universal.

Whether I think laws against nudity are justified or not is immaterial, it's about as well established as a fact can get that they exist.

The overwhelming social agreement is that appearance can be legislated to at least some extent. Where that extent might extend is a matter of degree, not kind.

I think the arguments that I have made on this thread are as true as I can make them, I don't necessarily agree but I wanted to see how far I could go with the concept.

Mandatory open carry with fairly severe penalties for deliberate concealment would solve a lot of our problems with guns I think.

ETA: My point really is that mandatory open carry would allow for community standards, in the big city people who are carrying likely would be shunned in my experience, they would tire of that pretty quickly if normal humans. In rural areas where guns are thought of differently there would be no social stigma.

Problems solved as far as I can see.

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New 50-state handgun policy: mandatory Open Carry [View all] ancianita Jan 2013 OP

I've argued this before, I want to see any guns that I'm around Fumesucker Jan 2013 #1

What were the benefits of this again? jmg257 Jan 2013 #2

More honesty, lessening a fear of the tool itself by non-owners? ancianita Jan 2013 #5

Thanks! nt jmg257 Jan 2013 #9

I don't trust any private individual that thinks they need a gun in public. RC Jan 2013 #29

I can't imagine... Dryclean Jan 2013 #127

Welcome to DU, Dryclean! CaliforniaPeggy Jan 2013 #128

Thank you for the welcome Dryclean Jan 2013 #141

Give me liberal Stand-Your-Ground and Castle Laws so I can legally shoot someone jpak Jan 2013 #91

OC's would likely be aware of that and not provoke any occasion for that? ancianita Jan 2013 #95

Their very presence is provocative - that is why assholes open carry in the first place jpak Jan 2013 #98

I can see it now. The NRA will get a law passed that says that RC Jan 2013 #27

This is also a "pistol". yesphan Jan 2013 #55

The SCOTUS only gives you the right to tote in the home. n/t ellisonz Jan 2013 #3

Right. But I'm speaking of Open Carry state law. ancianita Jan 2013 #11

Yeah fuck that shit ellisonz Jan 2013 #12

I'm not saying they HAVE to carry when they walk out the house if they own one. I hope you ancianita Jan 2013 #15

I understood you perfectly... ellisonz Jan 2013 #16

Then don't live in Phoenix. RetroGamer1971 Jan 2013 #102

OC is now legal yesphan Jan 2013 #56

noted ancianita Jan 2013 #58

I have seen many, in stores, eating out redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #130

Do you realize you'd be legislating how pepole look? rrneck Jan 2013 #4

Only outside the home Fumesucker Jan 2013 #6

You got a problem with nudism? rrneck Jan 2013 #8

I don't care, walk around nude Fumesucker Jan 2013 #18

So, rrneck Jan 2013 #23

Your complaint was that it was legislating the way people look Fumesucker Jan 2013 #24

Do you support laws regulating how people look? rrneck Jan 2013 #26

Let me get this straight because I'm a little slow Fumesucker Jan 2013 #30

Forcing people to expose what they carry on their persons rrneck Jan 2013 #33

It would be illogical to trust someone who clearly doesn't trust me Fumesucker Jan 2013 #38

Can he trust you to save him if he gets assaulted? nt rrneck Jan 2013 #39

If he wears the gun outside his clothes no one is going to assault him in the first place Fumesucker Jan 2013 #40

Hm, another dodge. rrneck Jan 2013 #41

I've already said he can have the gun if he wears it where it is visible Fumesucker Jan 2013 #42

"polite enough to let me know. " rrneck Jan 2013 #43

The vast majority of people who are shot are near a gun at the time: QED Fumesucker Jan 2013 #44

The safety blanket you demand rrneck Jan 2013 #45

I wear seat belts and drive defensively, I wear a helmet when biking and ride as safely as possible Fumesucker Jan 2013 #46

All reasonable precautions... rrneck Jan 2013 #47

I'm asking to be allowed to steer around a known hazard Fumesucker Jan 2013 #48

"invisible things it was deadly to run into" rrneck Jan 2013 #49

You were the one who brought up the road metaphor and first spoke of fear Fumesucker Jan 2013 #50

What right do you have to demand the talisman be exposed? nt rrneck Jan 2013 #52

... Fumesucker Jan 2013 #68

Still dodging. rrneck Jan 2013 #82

I already said you can have a concealed gun if you're nude Fumesucker Jan 2013 #92

Atmosphere rrneck Jan 2013 #105

Have you thought about hiring yourself out as a projector? Fumesucker Jan 2013 #106

Well lets have an oldie but goodie gungeon format rrneck Jan 2013 #107

There is legislation on how people look in nearly every community in the US Fumesucker Jan 2013 #109

Are laws against nudity justified? rrneck Jan 2013 #110

Just the facts ma'am. Fumesucker Jan 2013 #111

But that's not what I asked you. rrneck Jan 2013 #140

What right do you have theKed Jan 2013 #80

Personal privacy. rrneck Jan 2013 #81

Safety theKed Jan 2013 #85

Your desire for gun privacy is weaker than my need for safety. rrneck Jan 2013 #86

Your two sentences about trust are the words I have been trying to put together to explain AlinPA Jan 2013 #94

Heh heh. ancianita Jan 2013 #7

But it works so well in Hollywood westerns. Kablooie Jan 2013 #10

Totally with you. But those towns are supplied with guns mostly from us. Our weapons industry. ancianita Jan 2013 #13

A nit-pick. Concealed carry is compatible with "guns make society more polite" cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #14

I don't endorse it. My gun owning friends have said it, so I use their rationalizations here... ancianita Jan 2013 #17

There you go. Good argument against mandatory open carry. Which seems macho and stupid. Matariki Jan 2013 #53

Agree 1000%. FLyellowdog Jan 2013 #19

If we want our 2nd Amendment, we gotta act like grownups about carrying guns. ancianita Jan 2013 #20

Oh dear lord..... Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #22

Probably not if it's from Gizmodo. nt ancianita Jan 2013 #31

I Go Back to Young Men and Video Games redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #132

Yep. You're right. "Cool" doesn't scare anyone or promise to be one click away from civil war. ancianita Jan 2013 #134

I have dealt with young people for over 30 years redstatebluegirl Jan 2013 #135

Fair enough. I've seen video games relax and decompress kids with violent, angry lives. Two of ancianita Jan 2013 #136

I don't see a need where private citizens need to carry guns in public, period. Open or concealed. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #21

We do not live in a socialist country. This is the United States of America. xXxDSMer Jan 2013 #142

I was about to call you on all the textbook NRA talking points, but it appears you've been PPR'ed. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #144

Laws about carrying are important but we need to remember what they're for Recursion Jan 2013 #25

I agree OC is the more progressive form of carry. ileus Jan 2013 #28

you're a lunatic. mysuzuki2 Jan 2013 #32

Open fucking cary? Concealed carry rustydog Jan 2013 #34

Who the hell is saying that everyone has to carry a handgun? No. One. Here. Ever. ancianita Jan 2013 #35

I'm much more comfortable with the idea of open carry Aerows Jan 2013 #36

Beyond the privacy boundary of food and self defense, publics have a compelling safety interest in ancianita Jan 2013 #37

I think your neighbor is correct. Too much Wild West in your proposal. Won't end well. Matariki Jan 2013 #51

It may seem unhealthy. It certainly doesn't end well for schools and children, does it. ancianita Jan 2013 #57

I don't think the guy who went into Sandy Hook Elementary was hiding his guns Matariki Jan 2013 #112

I'm not making a premise or an argument. I'm making a proposal with benefits to non-gun owners. ancianita Jan 2013 #113

Carry through with your imagined scenario Matariki Jan 2013 #114

Are you kidding? The guy would've been down and more would still be alive. ancianita Jan 2013 #118

Guy had on a LOT of protective gear Matariki Jan 2013 #119

Right. A real representative example of hard-to-stop crazy. But there's always the head. ancianita Jan 2013 #122

I'm not "intent on", I AM calling it stupid. Matariki Jan 2013 #115

The Pinkertons. ancianita Jan 2013 #117

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #143

IF you as an American citizen are to be allowed to carry in public, HockeyMom Jan 2013 #54

My ongoing, lifelong sentiment exactly! nt ancianita Jan 2013 #59

guns can be shot at somone from a distance samsingh Jan 2013 #60

Oh noes! That just crushes my probability argument, doesn't it! Because you use some ancianita Jan 2013 #61

everyone carrying a gun to satisfy some gun lover's fantasy is pretty silly and scary samsingh Jan 2013 #62

I don't know who you mean.Who here are the "gun lovers." Certainly not me. I'm not even a gun owner. ancianita Jan 2013 #63

okay you win samsingh Jan 2013 #67

I don't have a problem with it. Buns_of_Fire Jan 2013 #64

How incredibly, positive, and absolutely Zoeisright Jan 2013 #65

You can skip the "fucking" part. I want to hear more about the "stupid" part, please. ancianita Jan 2013 #66

Here's the problem I see. Straw Man Jan 2013 #69

So turning to those openly carrying would be useless? Of course concealers always get the jump ancianita Jan 2013 #70

You mean asking the open carriers to save your ass? Straw Man Jan 2013 #71

Not at all. I've not said that gun ownership is to be avoided. I see the need for gun ownership. ancianita Jan 2013 #72

Maybe I misinterpreted this ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #73

Fair enough. My reference to children is an oblique reference to Newtown. I'm interested in adults ancianita Jan 2013 #74

Not sure if concealment ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #75

My first impulse is to say that OC is a humbler display. And fairer by being honest. No one ever ancianita Jan 2013 #87

Sooooo.... xoom Jan 2013 #76

When I see how much CC's put a stop to criminals, then I'll accept your claim. So far I haven't. ancianita Jan 2013 #77

You want valid, reliable proofs to prove your hypothical oppinion wrong? Your Op is what you "think" xoom Jan 2013 #78

What open carry will do is allow me to determine how far I keep myself from armed people Fumesucker Jan 2013 #84

YES!! Why is that? Because legal and political bias establish that frame. ancianita Jan 2013 #88

The victims of most crimes are themselves criminals, so they would be concealed-carrying too Recursion Jan 2013 #79

Yes. ancianita Jan 2013 #83

Anyone openly carrying a handgun in the streets is a threat to society. jpak Jan 2013 #89

If you want to frame it that way, I'll claim that concealed carry is also a threat to society. I ancianita Jan 2013 #90

Give me Stand-Your-Ground and Castle Laws so I can shoot them legally jpak Jan 2013 #93

If' it's mandatory open carry, what are you going to shoot the open carry assholes with? Fumesucker Jan 2013 #96

An AR15 with a 100 round clip backed up with a GLock with a 30 round clip jpak Jan 2013 #99

Practice makes perfect no doubt n/t Fumesucker Jan 2013 #101

Who needs practice pulling a trigger until the ammo runs out? jpak Jan 2013 #103

... Fumesucker Jan 2013 #104

Fine. Have it your way. ancianita Jan 2013 #97

Fire at will then. jpak Jan 2013 #100

Everyone should just wear a suicide vest - problem solved! grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #108

I get the gist of what you are ... 99Forever Jan 2013 #116

Thanks! I appreciate the possibility of fruitcakes in all kinds of places. ancianita Jan 2013 #120

Let's just all get the word "idiot" tattooed on our foreheads. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #121

I'M NOT SAYING MORE! I'm saying that those who wear them out in public should let the public know. ancianita Jan 2013 #123

I live in a state where you're not supposed to "carry" in public either way. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #124

Heh heh. Ya got me. I live in a state that allows both, and the mix is not comfortable ancianita Jan 2013 #125

Great way to figure out who is unarmed and vulnerable. dorkulon Jan 2013 #126

Isn't that what criminals do already? ancianita Jan 2013 #129

Don't read so much into it. dorkulon Jan 2013 #137

Agreed. And handgun manufacturers. ancianita Jan 2013 #138

Yeah, that's what I meant. dorkulon Jan 2013 #139

Sounds like the Wild West Politicub Jan 2013 #131

Fine. I've only been trying to decompress public space and thought the idea might help. ancianita Jan 2013 #133