General Discussion

William Seger

(12,526 posts)

118. No, it really doesn't

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 07:52 PM

Jan 2013

Several years ago, someone posted a link to a good copy of Zapruder on the dungeon board and invited everyone to watch what you say happened -- that the kill shot really seems to come from the front or front side. But instead, when I watched it in slow motion, I noticed what looked like a forward head-snap. So, I grabbed the frames and compared them with an overlay and verified that it really was there. Then, I went looking on the web and found numerous links (e.g. the one I posted) that confirmed that the forward head-snap has been known and carefully analyzed for years.

Once you know it's there, it's obvious even at full speed. The "back and to the left" on the other hand looks more like a Hollywood reaction to a gun-shot because, as I said, it comes too late and it shows acceleration.

The reaction of diehard JFK conspiracists is rather interesting, confirming Jonathan Swift's observation that you can't reason someone out of a belief that wasn't the result of reasoning in the first place.

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'I'm convinced a second gunman was involved in killing my uncle': Robert Kennedy [View all] elehhhhna Jan 2013 OP

I agree with them totally. arthritisR_US Jan 2013 #1

I agree with them, too. BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #26

Oh I know they'll drop one on me and once arthritisR_US Jan 2013 #133

Mmm . . . BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #186

I just finished stuffing my turkey ... having another family arthritisR_US Jan 2013 #189

any heaven05 Jan 2013 #168

I don't know what happened, but the Warren Report is not very believable. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #48

yes, that is when we realized the government would lie to us grasswire Jan 2013 #61

"Lost our innocence" I like that, it's so apt! arthritisR_US Jan 2013 #134

Personally liberalmike27 Jan 2013 #66

Really? Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #79

Find a copy of "A Texan Looks at Lyndon: A Study in Illegitimate Power", by J. Evetts Haley..... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #142

There is no doubt that LBJ Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #160

Read the book and then tell me what you think of LBJ. He wasn't just involved in.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #174

I Believe That Oswald Was The Lone Assassin. Paladin Jan 2013 #164

According to the last Gallup Poll on this subject in 2003, you're among the 19%.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #172

Er, the HSCA's determination that there was a conspiracy is based entirely stopbush Jan 2013 #182

I'm Not Clinging To Anything. Paladin Jan 2013 #187

I could have written what you wrote zappaman Jan 2013 #191

Well Said. (nt) Paladin Jan 2013 #194

Um, the Great Society, Medicare & the Civil Rights Act of 1964... JazzQuipster Jan 2013 #185

There is an interesting book on the history of Halliburton that could explain a connection JDPriestly Jan 2013 #206

Why would anyone think Johnson, a Texan, Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #215

I don't know what the truth was, but I don't think the Warren Commission bothered to ferret it out. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #222

On that we absolutely agree. Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #223

You don't think the Warren Commission got it right? zappaman Jan 2013 #120

You're asking the right questions, but don't expect any answers stopbush Jan 2013 #183

I was alive at the time. I know precisely where I was when the assassination happened. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #207

Conspiracies within conspiracies... AntiFascist Jan 2013 #217

Interesting. Never liked Nixon. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #221

Thoughtful and astute, IMO. Many will decry you arthritisR_US Jan 2013 #132

I agree and I believe that "our" CIA had everything to do with it. dotymed Jan 2013 #161

Have you ever read the Warren Report? Be honest. stopbush Jan 2013 #180

I won't be looking for your tin foil hat. Just because you're paranoid AnnieK401 Jan 2013 #163

agreed. spanone Jan 2013 #2

He was a kid when it happened; Rory wasn't even born. duffyduff Jan 2013 #3

I was watching it on TV as an adult. There were a lot of questions even then that did not get jwirr Jan 2013 #4

But isn't this about JFK, not RFK? pangaia Jan 2013 #12

I was referring to JFK. My children were already old enough to be watching with us. I was also jwirr Jan 2013 #13

Ah, my misunderstanding. pangaia Jan 2013 #39

Watched what on TV? The after the fact news coverage? AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #42

Exactly ... brett_jv Jan 2013 #174

Jack Ruby shoots Lee Harvey Oswald dead on live television: allrevvedup Jan 2013 #181

That's always been a sticking point to me union_maid Jan 2013 #200

And don't forget that Ruby died in prison just 3 years later Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #218

History has often been proven to be wrong. RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #5

"the powers that be" RomneyLies Jan 2013 #7

I know an attorney at law, a man with a 190 IQ BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #28

A lot of smart people believe in stupid shit. n/t RomneyLies Jan 2013 #37

And a lot of dumb people think they know it all. nt laundry_queen Jan 2013 #95

And tinfoil hats actually AMPLIFY the government mind rays. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #96

Metallic foil is not my color. nt laundry_queen Jan 2013 #97

. RomneyLies Jan 2013 #98

Yup, they do. truebluegreen Jan 2013 #139

Smart people ask questions and think. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #208

"the powers that be" cartach Jan 2013 #45

"Corporate Masters" RomneyLies Jan 2013 #47

Why is that? RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #50

It's woospeak. n/t RomneyLies Jan 2013 #52

what the heck is woospeak? n/t RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #54

"the powers that be... RomneyLies Jan 2013 #57

History is written by the winners. truebluegreen Jan 2013 #140

Sorry, but that does not define the term to me RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #147

I gave it RomneyLies Jan 2013 #148

You did not give a definition, you gave an example ... brett_jv Jan 2013 #176

Yeah, it reveals that I don't know RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #184

Not to worry hootinholler Jan 2013 #203

Wouldn't "corporate powers" in your sig line, dotymed Jan 2013 #165

You're wrong. The whole RFK family is convinced the second gunman was the armed guard. See below. leveymg Jan 2013 #11

After the murder of Kennedy I don't believe alot of what our government tells us. Especially southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #32

I'm right with you on that. RoccoR5955 Jan 2013 #51

I know it changed my life. I was around 14 or 15 and I don't think I ever was able southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #72

Yeah, totally ... in fact a rouge I tried yesterday gave me a terrible rash ... brett_jv Jan 2013 #177

I wasn't a kid. I was already married. It really turned me into a doubter and a cynic about the JDPriestly Jan 2013 #209

I agree with you. There is so much shit going on in this country we don't even know. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #213

If we only knew.. dotymed Jan 2013 #167

I lived at Ft Campbell during the time of Desert Storm. So much was going on. southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #196

When I was young, I broke up with a guy because he was going into the military. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #210

You did the right thing for you. I grew up in a military family. My mother married my southernyankeebelle Jan 2013 #212

Robert Kennedy, Jr. was 6 at the time (born in 1954). JDPriestly Jan 2013 #53

Age 9, not 6. Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #58

Aged 6 when Kennedy became president -- ran for president. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #211

Of course. I misunderstood what you were dating. Jackpine Radical Jan 2013 #214

Uh oh! ellie Jan 2013 #6

...starting with this thread peace frog Jan 2013 #14

I don't know anyone who doesn't think the Warren Report was a joke.. monmouth3 Jan 2013 #8

... or at least flawed enough to be highly suspect. peace frog Jan 2013 #15

You've read the 26 volume report? zappaman Jan 2013 #123

No, I have not. However after the recap of that report it was apparent to me it was a POS. The monmouth3 Jan 2013 #169

Only on DU do I meet people who take it seriously Tumbulu Jan 2013 #17

I think some people are just that against anything that hints at ... LisaLynne Jan 2013 #18

Yes, people are paid to come on an anonymous forum zappaman Jan 2013 #125

Do you know anyone who has actually read it? zappaman Jan 2013 #122

One thing that always makes me laugh about this Wolf Frankula Jan 2013 #9

Wasn't Bush the Smarter head of the CIA? BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #29

Bush was CIA head in 1976 Wolf Frankula Jan 2013 #69

Who can forget Zapata oil ...... think Jan 2013 #85

Food for thought... 2naSalit Jan 2013 #137

LOL! You believe everything you're told. DevonRex Jan 2013 #87

Think a minute ArcticFox Jan 2013 #145

Appointed to head the CIA Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #220

IIRC, a GROUP came to Hoover and told Hoover to stop. Festivito Jan 2013 #33

I have no doubt that a few people in high positions had files on Hoover. No doubt. KittyWampus Jan 2013 #70

Oh yeah. DevonRex Jan 2013 #105

Exactly. KittyWampus Jan 2013 #130

The Bush Crime Family created the power by blackmail system melody Jan 2013 #152

My ex-boss was a Robert F. Kennedy Fellow, a Hickory Hill regular, and he said the whole family leveymg Jan 2013 #10

Sorry, but this thread's about liberalhistorian Jan 2013 #20

Bobby also believed that Jack's assassination was the result of a conspiracy. RFK, Jr.'s views are leveymg Jan 2013 #31

who was that guard? grasswire Jan 2013 #64

He was moonlighting from Lockheed Aircraft Corp. His name was Thane Eugene Cesar. FBI report> leveymg Jan 2013 #74

thanks grasswire Jan 2013 #101

UR welcome. Here's the LA Co. Coroner's diagram of the bullet entry points and paths (not graphic) leveymg Jan 2013 #107

To this day the memory of that night shocks me. Rose Siding Jan 2013 #143

What an incredibly stupid plot William Seger Jan 2013 #78

There's a documentary called "THE SECOND GUN" about this Ty Templeton Jan 2013 #154

They were protecting the GUN LOBBY!!1!!! brett_jv Jan 2013 #179

Unfortunately, Robert F Kennedy Jr. also believes that vaccines cause autism Pale Blue Dot Jan 2013 #16

You mischaracterize Tumbulu Jan 2013 #19

How? nt Pale Blue Dot Jan 2013 #21

You should read the actual articles and statements from him on the issue Tumbulu Jan 2013 #23

Then I invite all the readers of this thread to also read them. Pale Blue Dot Jan 2013 #27

Again, you mischaracterize. Read his actual words, not what some blogger Tumbulu Jan 2013 #34

Yes, please read RFK's 66-page paper and 179 fully documented footnotes. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #38

Well, considering just how false the first sentence is jeff47 Jan 2013 #63

We all have opinions but you need to cite sources allrevvedup Jan 2013 #108

If you pretend to know anything about this issue jeff47 Jan 2013 #117

Yeah, but....but skepticscott Jan 2013 #121

A paragraph from wikipedia doesn't cut it. n/t allrevvedup Jan 2013 #124

When your claim skepticscott Jan 2013 #128

It's full of references. More than the PDF you provided. jeff47 Jan 2013 #131

CDC, 2012: Yes, Thimerosal remains in childhood vaccines and flu vaccines. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #173

Except "multi-dose forumations of influenza vaccine" are generally not used. jeff47 Jan 2013 #197

Nope. "Multi-dose" means mutliple does in one vial allrevvedup Jan 2013 #201

There's two commonly-used definitions jeff47 Jan 2013 #202

Strike 3, yer out. CDC: vaccine "in multi-dose VIALS" contains thimerosal. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #216

Are the Relevant Scientists liberalmike27 Jan 2013 #71

No, relevant excludes frauds like Mann. jeff47 Jan 2013 #135

It's very much useful in this conversation cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #36

I wouldn't call Salon's editor-in-chief bogus necessarily, allrevvedup Jan 2013 #40

So many of us who lived through the JFK assassination have doubts. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #60

LOL. There's no "evidence-based thinking" at the Salon link you posted. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #35

"JFK and the Unspeakable" by James Douglass... drokhole Jan 2013 #22

Saddest book I've ever read. Boomerproud Jan 2013 #44

i am also convinced. barbtries Jan 2013 #24

That's what our own govt says, "The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #25

Conclusion was based entirely on the exboyfil Jan 2013 #73

If my brother had been assassinated so brazenly, in public, I believe I would think long and hard... truebrit71 Jan 2013 #205

I doubt they've read the Warren Commission's report. All 11 volumes. Hamlette Jan 2013 #30

I doubt you have either. It's a sloppy piece of fiction, as was Bugliosi's "work". nt. OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #82

Allen Dulles should be a name that concerns anyone who takes the Warren report seriously think Jan 2013 #89

Caro states in "Passage of Power" that Dulles was recommended for the Commission by RFK, nyquil_man Jan 2013 #92

And his source is? This would be appreciated. /nt think Jan 2013 #94

Check Caro's book. He usually has extensive endnotes. nyquil_man Jan 2013 #99

Dulles resigned after the Bay of Pigs think Jan 2013 #104

And was presented with the National Security Medal nyquil_man Jan 2013 #106

Allen Dulles was a complete scum bag but yes he got a shiny medal think Jan 2013 #109

Maybe the President shouldn't be giving shiny medals to scumbags: nyquil_man Jan 2013 #112

Completely agree. /nt think Jan 2013 #113

"Technically", Dulles was forced out (resign or be fired), as was Richard Bissell.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #110

And Gen. Charles Cabell, Mc Mike Jan 2013 #157

RFK jr Marblehead Jan 2013 #41

Simple requests skepticscott Jan 2013 #43

Who do YOU THINK YOU ARE telling anyone to STFU and come back when they can? Your onecent Jan 2013 #46

In other words skepticscott Jan 2013 #49

THE EVIDENCE IS ALL OVER THE PLACE... russspeakeasy Jan 2013 #59

Give me the names skepticscott Jan 2013 #81

Son, let me help you out with this. alberg Jan 2013 #144

What will happen if they disobey you? demwing Jan 2013 #56

I am not an expert on this topic either, but Thom Hartmann co-wrote a book that explores JDPriestly Jan 2013 #62

"Some evidence" skepticscott Jan 2013 #84

Thom Hartmann seemed to distance himself from the book when I heard him mention it cpwm17 Jan 2013 #114

You're only 'skeptical' about other peoples' skepticism regarding the official story. Mc Mike Jan 2013 #77

Nice try at deflection skepticscott Jan 2013 #83

I don't need website proof of climate change, so you're offering me nothing, times 12. Mc Mike Jan 2013 #90

More deflection. Too funny skepticscott Jan 2013 #93

Wow zappaman Jan 2013 #127

I get it. 'Us' is 'everyone'. That's who you speak for. Mc Mike Jan 2013 #156

Find E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession, and then.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #86

So give me the names skepticscott Jan 2013 #88

"So give me the names" NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #91

I've done research on the JFK asassination.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #111

Funny, I don't see any of the names I asked for skepticscott Jan 2013 #116

Funny, I don't recall you mentioning E. Howard Hunt's deathbed confession or the.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #126

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #129

The burden of proof is on you to present evidence on who murder JFK cpwm17 Jan 2013 #149

All "real evidence" like the late Arlen Specter's "Single Bullet Theory".... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #178

What, exactly, did they find? JazzQuipster Jan 2013 #188

So, tell me how the nearly pristine Magic Bullet was connected forensically to JFK's killing.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #204

You didn't give any evidence on who murdered JFK cpwm17 Jan 2013 #199

those are not simple requests. tomp Jan 2013 #166

Where were you watoos Jan 2013 #55

yeah, I was in high school Celebration Jan 2013 #68

This is the same idiot who thinks vaccines cause autism. Odin2005 Jan 2013 #65

The last shot... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #67

Wrong William Seger Jan 2013 #76

when you watch this in action MFM008 Jan 2013 #100

No, it really doesn't William Seger Jan 2013 #118

ha..... TheGov97 Jan 2013 #75

Alex Jones mimi85 Jan 2013 #80

Maybe they should interview GHW Bush before malaise Jan 2013 #102

I've never bought the "lone, crazed gunman" idea for any Warpy Jan 2013 #103

Don't forget than another nut skepticscott Jan 2013 #119

It was a "she", not a "he" that tried to shoot Ford. Sara Jane Moore. Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2013 #136

Squeaky Fromme, also. nt. Mc Mike Jan 2013 #159

I'm not exactly sure how many gunmen there were, but the investigation was botched Mrs. Overall Jan 2013 #115

Whoa, this opens up a whole new can of worms davesliberal1977_gg Jan 2013 #138

Probably aliens..... kaboom15 Jan 2013 #141

George H. W. Bush? Kurovski Jan 2013 #146

and yet again PatrynXX Jan 2013 #150

There was nothing plausible about the official story from minute one. Waiting For Everyman Jan 2013 #151

Um, yeah, it isn't rocket science tavalon Jan 2013 #153

It was the CIA ! B Calm Jan 2013 #155

Three words that destroy any credibility of the Official Story as endorsed by the Warren Commission: MessiahRp Jan 2013 #158

There is also other footage, shot from the other side of Elm St. Mc Mike Jan 2013 #162

come on heaven05 Jan 2013 #171

John Jr.'s plane crash was suspicious to me.. fadedrose Jan 2013 #170

Yes zappaman Jan 2013 #190

Oh come on. He was handsome and a Kennedy but not the sharpest tool in the shed. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #193

He published the "Conspiracy Issue" of George in October 1998. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #195

Before he was married, he was the best catch a girl could make... fadedrose Jan 2013 #198

Stephen King has about the most vivid imagination around, Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #192

Stephen King's source-materials were dubious... MinM Jan 2013 #219