General Discussion

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)

206. When a post starts out, "So you think...." you know it has to be a logical fallacy.

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:45 AM

Jan 2013

"So if Bernie Sanders were elected President, and had to "cave" to a Democratic Congress, you would hold his feet to the fire, right, and never ever have his back?" You are making the assumption that "having his back" and "holding his feet to the fire" are mutually exclusive. They are not. Holding your Congressional representative's feet to the fire (asking them to honor their promises) is your obligation as a participating citizen. It would be nice after working to "support" a candidate and getting them elected one could relax and sit back and watch American Idol. But that isnt practical. As I see it, we choose a candidate that supports our values and then, once elected WE HELP THEM REMEMBER THAT THEY SUPPORT OUR VALUES.

As far as "having his back", I would say that I would have Pres Obama's back if he took the risk to strengthen SS by raising the cap. He would get a lot of resistance but I would "have his back". But I am guessing that your definition of "having his back" would mean that should he cut SS, you would support the decision irregardless of the reason. If I am wrong about that, please clarify.

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I'm Sorry... But I Gotta Ask... People Here Keep Saying We Have To Have The President's Back... [View all] WillyT Jan 2013 OP

He had me since hello. And still does. And will 100 years from now. graham4anything Jan 2013 #1

No matter what you are ... dawg Jan 2013 #4

Well said dawg. Well said! n/t sheshe2 Jan 2013 #18

Badfinger ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #21

Me, too, Graham. narnian60 Jan 2013 #5

+ 1000! sheshe2 Jan 2013 #16

+1 Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #24

you sound like a stalker Skittles Jan 2013 #39

Bless your tiny little heart. n/t JTFrog Jan 2013 #197

tiny? Skittles Jan 2013 #259

One person's sad sam, progressoid Jan 2013 #47

^^^that^^^ BlueNoteSpecial Jan 2013 #235

He had you at hello. How quaint, how cute, how sad. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #74

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - And Thank You !!! WillyT Jan 2013 #76

Thank you for the OP. Keep em coming. nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #78

times a zillion rhett o rick and OP roguevalley Jan 2013 #105

... Phlem Jan 2013 #80

+1000000 truebluegreen Jan 2013 #87

just let the man handle it, he knows all, sees all, i trust him, bla bla HiPointDem Jan 2013 #91

No one is saying that but you. randome Jan 2013 #93

actually, many people on this forum have said it (except for 'sees all') HiPointDem Jan 2013 #101

Are you implying that the POTUS Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #128

In democracies, it doesn't matter that the President has information we don't have; we are still HiPointDem Jan 2013 #132

I think you might have covered two logical fallacies. Putting words in someone's mouth rhett o rick Jan 2013 #150

Nice post. I think everyone recognizes we won't get all we want. A Simple Game Jan 2013 #227

When they have nothing they Cha Jan 2013 #293

Actually, I DO trust him. Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #123

my problem isn't with you trusting him, it's with you trying to shut down criticism from others HiPointDem Jan 2013 #137

Bull crap!.....you easily are in the category of shutting down positive discussions re: Obama. Sheepshank Jan 2013 #207

He does a great deal of "speaking out"... sendero Jan 2013 #175

+1000 Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #94

Add me to the list of what you said. RC Jan 2013 #134

It's pretty sickening Puzzledtraveller Jan 2013 #139

"Blind worship isnt in the Democratic nature." dorkulon Jan 2013 #145

Nuff said. nt raouldukelives Jan 2013 #195

Absolutely correct. Hero worship is over dotymed Jan 2013 #217

Rick slow down BrainMann1 Jan 2013 #251

Bless you for telling me to "slow down". I havent heard that in decades. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #253

THANK YOU Skittles Jan 2013 #260

oh please heaven05 Jan 2013 #279

Lol, and you are what is caled a 'blind supporter' Logical Jan 2013 #104

Jury Decision on this post 1-5 to keep ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #199

PP, how do you find the results of an alert reflection Jan 2013 #211

Only the jurors gets the results directly every time ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #243

Thanks! reflection Jan 2013 #294

Wow, that was alerted! n-t Logical Jan 2013 #226

Wow it's sad that this post was alerted on. pam4water Jan 2013 #246

The juries are a popularity contest - if you're popular you can say shit. If not, you get hidden. riderinthestorm Jan 2013 #283

You're a "cut and runner", now there's a neo-con meme I ain't heard in a while!!!! grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #109

+1 pam4water Jan 2013 #247

Right? Who says "cut and run" but the far right????? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #270

Don't forget, "I server at the presidents pleasure." XD pam4water Jan 2013 #275

Just fetching JReed Jan 2013 #154

so this is how you see Obama? Enrique Jan 2013 #205

LOL! nt laundry_queen Jan 2013 #238

Bawhahaha +1 pam4water Jan 2013 #252

He always had our back. NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #2

What you said. All of it. Hekate Jan 2013 #6

This congress should just be sent home as unfit to serve. It would be a tremendous cost RKP5637 Jan 2013 #108

All the GOP in the House, at any rate, and they are the majority. Hekate Jan 2013 #117

Yep, that sure would be a good place to start!!! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2013 #131

The House led by Newt Gingrich wasn't so wonderful Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #161

As far as I am concerned, Newt started it, wrote the playbook ... Hekate Jan 2013 #229

I had so much hope when Clinton was elected Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #286

I felt the same. nt Hekate Jan 2013 #288

A newt is a slimy lizard Art_from_Ark Jan 2013 #289

K&R Absolutely. Skidmore Jan 2013 #8

Right on. The president needs us to have his back more than ever Politicub Jan 2013 #9

i don't recall him asking voters to get his back. i recall him asking something different of us. HiPointDem Jan 2013 #95

I have his back...because he has Ours! He always will! sheshe2 Jan 2013 #20

very true sad-cafe Jan 2013 #26

+1 freshwest Jan 2013 #224

Well said! greatauntoftriplets Jan 2013 #30

Oh but, now you're talking the reality of the situation.. Cha Jan 2013 #142

nothing but excuses....sorry that doesn't cut it anymore bowens43 Jan 2013 #181

"nothing but excuses....sorry that doesn't cut it anymore" NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #200

Actually, he had the torture's backs zipplewrath Jan 2013 #220

True that! pam4water Jan 2013 #256

What would you like him to do? ellisonz Jan 2013 #3

Let The Intelligence Oversight Committee Do It's Job... WillyT Jan 2013 #15

Lead on climate change pscot Jan 2013 #23

THANK YOU !!! - Forgot To Put That In My Post... WillyT Jan 2013 #27

"especially the one's that kill women, children, and wedding parties..." ellisonz Jan 2013 #48

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #52

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #62

Well... At Least I Don't Believe In "The Ends Justify The Means" WillyT Jan 2013 #66

I prefer to choose my ends. ellisonz Jan 2013 #67

Yeah... Women, Children, And Wedding Parties... WillyT Jan 2013 #72

I voted for the lesser of two evils, IMO, both corporatist. dotymed Jan 2013 #297

"...the people he is trying to kill...are horrid people who have killed and truth2power Jan 2013 #77

If you believe this information to be faulty... ellisonz Jan 2013 #82

I think you should read that whole article more closely. It's a mish-mash truth2power Jan 2013 #298

Gerrymandering is all that is needed to prevent Dems from NorthCarolina Jan 2013 #225

Fix health care like he promised he would if we passed Obamacare crapsurance!!!!!!! grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #111

Homework Assignment for You: How many votes did "Obamacare crapsurance" pass by in both houses. ellisonz Jan 2013 #112

Obama said, ""If a mandate was the solution, we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #183

Since nobody had his back last term RomneyLies Jan 2013 #7

Great point.. bama_blue_dot Jan 2013 #185

Right. That's why we re-elected him, cuz we didn't have his back. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #186

He was re-elected DESPITE the fact that the whiny Left/Libertarians infesting this site BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #231

Take the progressive vote out of the equation and he lost. Fact is most of the issues grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #239

I'm a progressive. I have long given up calling myself a Liberal after FiredogLake and DKos BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #248

Interesting grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #267

K&R. MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #10

Unfortunately, he has the MIC's back. Vattel Jan 2013 #11

I have his back. Terra Alta Jan 2013 #12

+ 1000 BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #234

I don't know your story, but the president has all of our backs Politicub Jan 2013 #13

OK... I'll Bite... The President Also Has The 14th Amendment, And (I Guess) The Trillion Dollar Coin WillyT Jan 2013 #19

The obstruction goes beyond the budget Politicub Jan 2013 #31

What's the long view for the Patriot Act, indefinate detention and domestic surveillance? rhett o rick Jan 2013 #250

I'm not sure, but neither of those things diminish my support for the president Politicub Jan 2013 #280

You try to twist disagreement with specific issues into "bashing". rhett o rick Jan 2013 #284

Then go on with your more genuine support Politicub Jan 2013 #285

Just stand up for your beliefs and let me stand up for mine. nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #287

So you're both a constitutional and economics expert now? Geeze. randome Jan 2013 #75

no, he's a citizen with an opinion, just like you. There's no analogy between computer programming HiPointDem Jan 2013 #136

this sad-cafe Jan 2013 #29

Thanks Politicalcub nm Cha Jan 2013 #35

Beautifully, perfectly said. Especially the bit imploring the OP to "educate himself" Number23 Jan 2013 #130

He has and does and will, imo. (aside) There are 3 branches of government, as you know. pinto Jan 2013 #14

Yes it is high time. alarimer Jan 2013 #17

You're not alone. amandabeech Jan 2013 #262

WillyT, after four months of DU spitting venom at the newly elected president... Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #22

Like I Said... He Asked Us To Hold His Feet To The Fire... To "Push" Him... WillyT Jan 2013 #25

Well, you didn't say that in the OP, but go for it. Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #32

His Feet Aren't Here (on DU) To Be Held To The Fire Amonester Jan 2013 #65

... Cha Jan 2013 #144

Finally, seeing the OP for what it is. Sheepshank Jan 2013 #210

Now you are trying to have it both ways treestar Jan 2013 #113

+1000 CakeGrrl Jan 2013 #125

That's the basic point. What kind of world do people live in where one kicks and screams at patrice Jan 2013 #119

PBO does have my Back ..that's WHY I Cha Jan 2013 #28

I totally agree. sad-cafe Jan 2013 #33

"Cheerleader!" sheshe2 Jan 2013 #43

But, Cha Jan 2013 #138

I accept, Cha...but it looks like we will have to fight the fight, along with cheerleading... sheshe2 Jan 2013 #141

"corrupt"? ... Cha Jan 2013 #143

Holding public servants accountable is the responsibility of the people. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #34

THANK YOU !!! WillyT Jan 2013 #36

So, I am corrupt, since I support my President! sheshe2 Jan 2013 #44

Don't know about you personally but yes, truebluegreen Jan 2013 #83

The only Corrupt people that I know of is the GOP. sheshe2 Jan 2013 #118

They like to use those nasty words that describe republicons Cha Jan 2013 #148

That they do...A**HOLES! sheshe2 Jan 2013 #162

Really? HangOnKids Jan 2013 #171

My, my. Did I strike a nerve? truebluegreen Jan 2013 #153

Did you strike a nerve...sure. You just accused me of being corrupt...ie: a criminal! Really? sheshe2 Jan 2013 #159

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Jan 2013 #169

You got a Cha Jan 2013 #174

Poor thing. truebluegreen Jan 2013 #202

Already with the ignore? Sheepshank Jan 2013 #209

She will be a lot better off. Cha Jan 2013 #292

Is he not a public servant and accountable? Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2013 #155

+1 forestpath Jan 2013 #50

+1 HiPointDem Jan 2013 #97

Yes, and it's bizarre too. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #149

Are you really implying that the Obama supporters on DU are like Sheepshank Jan 2013 #214

No. UnrepentantLiberal Jan 2013 #216

and yet the thread here is saying DUs practice blind obedience Sheepshank Jan 2013 #221

+1 pam4water Jan 2013 #255

How CAN he have OUR back if we don't have his? The GOP is trying to erode his support and turn his okaawhatever Jan 2013 #37

Don't worry, the GOP will probably try to impeach him jberryhill Jan 2013 #38

That's Really Interesting... Since I Voted For Him... WillyT Jan 2013 #40

We support him...he supports us, yes. And he is. So, what's your point? I don't get it. Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #41

And Apparently... You Never Will... WillyT Jan 2013 #42

You don't have to have been here very long Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #51

Do You Think The Constitution Of The United States Is Still Valid ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #55

Do you think that your constant whining Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #57

That's Me... Always "Whining" About The U.S. Constitution And Violations Of Oaths And Laws... WillyT Jan 2013 #60

No. That's you Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #71

Please... Do Not Lower Yourself To Pretend To Know Me Or My Motivations... WillyT Jan 2013 #73

I am assuming that the phrase Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #88

Oh, You Old War Horse You... Ya Got Me... WillyT Jan 2013 #96

I'll take that to mean Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #99

And I Am So Glad You Are Amused... And Glad I Could Bring Some Joy Into Your Life... WillyT Jan 2013 #103

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #107

AHHH the empty comeback. Replacing actual information with sarcasm. Sheepshank Jan 2013 #213

The operative word being "us." Not "me." "Us," as in the American citizens. Not Democrats, Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #192

+1 sheshe2 Jan 2013 #198

HA! I thought I was the only one who noticed...have been noticing for some time n/t Sheepshank Jan 2013 #212

and heaven05 Jan 2013 #265

You mean like the 2nd Amendment? You're ticked off at gun control? nt Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #191

I don't know what this particular poster's complaints are. There are many complaints Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #190

That's a weak way to criticize Obama. No, I don't know what your complaints are. Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #188

He's had our backs from day one of his first term Summer Hathaway Jan 2013 #45

No matter what the ODSers say or do, I will NEVER turn my back on this president! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #46

K&R forestpath Jan 2013 #49

Yes. Especially children, teachers, workers and seniors. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #53

He certainly had the autoworkers back in Michigan and Ohio bluestateguy Jan 2013 #54

Good Point... What About Those Comfortable Shoes... Walking With Labor In Wisconsin ??? WillyT Jan 2013 #56

I don't know what you are talking about bluestateguy Jan 2013 #59

From 2007... WillyT Jan 2013 #64

Hmmm...<crickets> truebluegreen Jan 2013 #92

So, basically, because he hasn't been able to do everything, he's not had our backs... Drunken Irishman Jan 2013 #179

+1000!!! sheshe2 Jan 2013 #269

I don't want the Prez, whoever he/she may be, getting involved in state politics. Not his job. Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #194

the autoworkers who now work for $11-14/hour instead of $26-30? HiPointDem Jan 2013 #100

HiPointDem, in the 1980s experienced workers made 20 an hour Mimosa Jan 2013 #165

Many people have learned from life that relationships need reciprocity & Have functioned under that patrice Jan 2013 #58

1 man, and 300 milion people sitting on their lazy asses, doing essentially nothing. liberalmuse Jan 2013 #61

A lot of people are out working as hard as they can... BlueCheese Jan 2013 #69

NO. Obviously you don't understand what it means NashvilleLefty Jan 2013 #63

I really can't stand cults of personality. BlueCheese Jan 2013 #68

Thank You For That !!! WillyT Jan 2013 #70

The assumption that anyone who supports this President is engaging in a cult of personality is patrice Jan 2013 #90

It would be insulting... BlueCheese Jan 2013 #164

"our" expectations? treestar Jan 2013 #124

And offering a chained CPI to the republicans when SS has Autumn Jan 2013 #133

+1 forestpath Jan 2013 #189

I really can't stand those who accuse others of having "cults of personality" Cha Jan 2013 #140

Are you saying there aren't cults of personality around politicians? BlueCheese Jan 2013 #166

WELL SAID + 1MILLION humbled_opinion Jan 2013 #79

He should but we aren't the ones he has to answer to. MrSlayer Jan 2013 #81

Ain't That The Truth WillyT Jan 2013 #86

+ My household. n/t truedelphi Jan 2013 #89

How do you describe "our" back treestar Jan 2013 #84

We also were pissed because we knew bu$h was a Fraud, a silver spoon... Amonester Jan 2013 #129

apparently not hfojvt Jan 2013 #85

President Barack Hussein Obama knows things you do not know, negative nellies & willyT. hopemountain Jan 2013 #98

The fan clubbing in this thread is downright embarrassing. Marr Jan 2013 #102

We must assume some are paid trolls. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #114

I'm really sick of this "paid shills" notion. dorkulon Jan 2013 #147

20 Habits of Paid Trolls: grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #228

1 way to avoid having to back up your arguments: dorkulon Jan 2013 #242

Well, I have to agree with you there! grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #244

So you think there is something wrong, ipso facto, with supporting treestar Jan 2013 #115

I think there's something wrong with "having the back" of a politician-- yes. Marr Jan 2013 #120

well who are they? treestar Jan 2013 #122

Bullshit. Marr Jan 2013 #126

That sounds about right. Hekate Jan 2013 #121

When a post starts out, "So you think...." you know it has to be a logical fallacy. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #206

Speaking of Bernie Sanders, his appointments would likely have been very different. amandabeech Jan 2013 #266

Appointing conservatives cant lead to goodness. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #271

Yup. amandabeech Jan 2013 #273

Not as embarrassing as the freeperlike attacks on a sitting Democratic President. JTFrog Jan 2013 #201

When the sitting Democratic President acts like a Republican I would hope he gets criticism. Dawgs Jan 2013 #236

It is time he has ours DonCoquixote Jan 2013 #106

yes samsingh Jan 2013 #110

Yes! YES! 840high Jan 2013 #116

I trust the president to have our back. hrmjustin Jan 2013 #127

Threads like this do NOTHING but pollute this web site Number23 Jan 2013 #135

But, but, but, Cha Jan 2013 #151

"Big shit stirring thread." And that's all it is Number23 Jan 2013 #156

Whoops. Just saw that the OP, after high-fiving every single post in this thread that shit on the Number23 Jan 2013 #157

Exactly.. start shit and get brought down Cha Jan 2013 #160

I always thought JReed Jan 2013 #146

He has my back. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #152

Indeed it is Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2013 #158

I thought he was supposed to have our backs Mimosa Jan 2013 #163

K&R, it is long past time for Obama to start championing liberal causes quinnox Jan 2013 #167

You make an excellent point 99th_Monkey Jan 2013 #168

lots of anger WillyT looks like you struck a nerve Kingwithnothrone Jan 2013 #170

Nicely said. Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #176

Well.... sendero Jan 2013 #178

"throw the chum in the water" JTFrog Jan 2013 #203

We haven't forgotten the whiny Left that ensured that enough people BlueCaliDem Jan 2013 #232

If Democrats can't get the voters to vote for them JAbuchan08 Jan 2013 #276

yay! another shit-stirring thread scheming daemons Jan 2013 #172

du rec. nt xchrom Jan 2013 #173

I'll support him when he fights for me. I'm still waiting. Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #177

I agree with you completely. He has sold us out several times. bowens43 Jan 2013 #180

You are way too appreciative of those who share your opinions. great white snark Jan 2013 #182

Bingo Bobbie Jo Jan 2013 #187

Noticed that too, huh? While all the while, WillyT's cheering squad bemoans the President's Number23 Jan 2013 #249

I'd be happy if we had each other's back lunatica Jan 2013 #184

Obama hates us. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #193

/facepalm JTFrog Jan 2013 #196

I hate to disagree with you fadedrose Jan 2013 #204

Oh it's you again..... Sheepshank Jan 2013 #208

Thanks For Kicking Willy's Thread HangOnKids Jan 2013 #215

YUP...everyone needs to get a handle on Willi and his cheer club. n/t Sheepshank Jan 2013 #218

lol.. you're right. Here's another kick. Cha Jan 2013 #254

Great post, WillyT.....let's see how the ides of March turns out.....nft plethoro Jan 2013 #219

Yup. another_liberal Jan 2013 #222

Treason!!! Blasphemy!! Heretic!!! Zorra Jan 2013 #223

no heaven05 Jan 2013 #264

Obama does have your back. It's the republican't part of Congress that's screwing us. Now they want judesedit Jan 2013 #230

Did the republican congress pick all of those Wall Street guys for his administration? Dawgs Jan 2013 #237

Indeed, those choices were his and his alone Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2013 #241

your heaven05 Jan 2013 #233

What is his plan for the sequester? grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #240

and heaven05 Jan 2013 #261

he releases his plans at the last minute and uses the time-crunch as an excuse to bow to neocons grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #268

he heaven05 Jan 2013 #277

! grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #290

K&R pam4water Jan 2013 #245

Sigh.... warrprayer Jan 2013 #257

I thought he did and does. Maybe I missed something. nt kstewart33 Jan 2013 #258

He does have our back.... PennsylvaniaMatt Jan 2013 #263

We elected John2 Jan 2013 #272

How profound. babylonsister Jan 2013 #274

VP Biden has the President's Back as do WE The People, babylonsistah.. Cha Jan 2013 #291

Just curious, but how many of your 43,000+ posts have been rants against the President?.... OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #278

I'm sorry I got here late WillyT. I wish I had been around to have your back... Luminous Animal Jan 2013 #281

K&R woo me with science Jan 2013 #282

Kick woo me with science Jan 2013 #295

Hey, ProSense Jan 2013 #296

The President has nominated a republican for the post of Secretary of Defense, Zorra Jan 2013 #299

Kerry is a Republican? ProSense Jan 2013 #300

Whoops, thanks. Corrected. Anyway, so what if the neocons Zorra Jan 2013 #302

You know what makes me puke: ProSense Jan 2013 #301

Consider the possibility that someone having the audacity to question the President Zorra Jan 2013 #303

Oooh, ProSense Jan 2013 #304