General Discussion

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

89. He was not the best.

Tue Jan 15, 2013, 11:57 PM

Jan 2013

Doping is not an on/off switch. Not everyone's programs were the same. Some people did more, some people did less. And all indications are that USPS had the best doping program.

The problem with the argument that they all did it and he was the best is that it changes the sport from an athletic competition to something else. It's not about who has more talent and who trains hardest. It is about who has the best doping program. Who responds best to PEDs. Which team is able to get away with more without tripping the tests. Who is willing to put more stuff in their body, take more risks.

"They say" that the most talented rider of the era was Ullrich. In fact, I've heard speculation that Ullrich was clean, or almost clean, during the first few years that Lance beat him (starting in 99, after Festina), and he only started doping again after he kept losing. Just speculation, but it would be amazing if true.

Really, we'll never know for sure who was the best. Lance and USPS were the best at certain things, but not bike riding.

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Highlight:

Fuck Lance Armstrong.. [View all] Stuart G Jan 2013 OP

I'm a firm believer that the cover-up was worse than the crime in this case. sadbear Jan 2013 #1

I was never a world class athlete. Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #5

*apologies Helen Reddy Jan 2013 #7

Cheating is cheating,... Skidmore Jan 2013 #35

He should be in jail for the fraud he perpetrated with his business partners. reformist2 Jan 2013 #2

I can understand some folks feeling that way... OneMoreDemocrat Jan 2013 #3

I agree, he cheated, but there's not one clean person in cycling... joeybee12 Jan 2013 #18

And probably caused his own testicular cancer in the first place with steroids and testosterone Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #53

i associate armstrong with the lying and slanderous remarks about his fellow teammates.. frylock Jan 2013 #20

Livestrong hasn't funded any cancer research since 2005. DanTex Jan 2013 #30

You're entitled to admire him, I suppose. LiberalAndProud Jan 2013 #60

Do some homework. GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #61

Also, the confusion is intentional: jsr Jan 2013 #67

He may have done good, but the people he sullied calling them liars rustydog Jan 2013 #94

Wonder if he cheated using his bicycle equipment too CE5 Jan 2013 #4

How does the bike fake a doping test? Brother Buzz Jan 2013 #15

I'm saying that he might have rigged his bike with some sort of cheating device. CE5 Jan 2013 #29

Tons of rules, and inspectors poke at everything Brother Buzz Jan 2013 #41

I don't condone what Lance did, however, I believe they are all doping. Even with doping he still Pisces Jan 2013 #6

they all doped, but not all of them lied and defamed their fellow teammates like lance did frylock Jan 2013 #21

Sir Bradley Wiggins (the 2012 Tour de France winner) HATES doping FunkyLeprechaun Jan 2013 #37

Why is it that so many people believe in this "win at all costs" mentality? AZ Progressive Jan 2013 #8

$100 million jsr Jan 2013 #11

obesity Whisp Jan 2013 #17

Yeah he could have just won three or four Tour de France CE5 Jan 2013 #31

he was doping for all of them. They all were. Doesnt excuse any of it. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #40

He never would have admitted it if not caught. Avalux Jan 2013 #9

this, right here.. frylock Jan 2013 #23

As someone not a big sports fan, can you post a link to closeupready Jan 2013 #47

here you go.. frylock Jan 2013 #51

Great, thanks. closeupready Jan 2013 #54

You're missing The Greatest Story of Redemption Ever Told jsr Jan 2013 #10

Why was the US Postal Service sponsoring a bicycle racing team in Europe in the first place? FarCenter Jan 2013 #12

Your question is confusing. a la izquierda Jan 2013 #19

The USPS is in bad financial shape. How would supporting a cycling team be good for their marketing? FarCenter Jan 2013 #25

US Postal hasn't supported a team in years. a la izquierda Jan 2013 #55

What politician connects Thomas Weisel and the US Postal Service FarCenter Jan 2013 #56

Why would the USPS be sponsoring anything? smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #75

Maybe Weisel was in cahoots with some congressperson on the Postal Service committee FarCenter Jan 2013 #80

Because the Tour de France is the pinnacle of world cycling? And because of Lance Armstrong. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #87

That is going to make people buy more US postage? mail more stuff? FarCenter Jan 2013 #93

The USPS is a brand just like FedEx and UPS wtmusic Jan 2013 #109

i don't want to fuck Lance Armstrong. I'm just not that into him. Who else do you have? n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #13

BWAAAAHHAAAAAAHAHAHA!!! tblue Jan 2013 #28

The only way I would have any respect for him, would be if he had confessed *before* being busted. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #14

He followed the laws of greed Whisp Jan 2013 #16

The odd part is, he's actually a phenomenal athlete. I had reservations about his wins, but believed Gregorian Jan 2013 #22

Remember, everyone he "beat" was also doped up. Atman Jan 2013 #24

Triplets of Belleville - you are right - great movie! n/t Whisp Jan 2013 #27

Yeah. I just don't have the energy to be outraged tblue Jan 2013 #32

One of my favorite animated films. closeupready Jan 2013 #49

Sports heroes Lex Jan 2013 #26

totally agree rurallib Jan 2013 #33

I'll tell Muhammad Ali the next time I see him. I would also tell Arthur Ashe, Jesse Owens, ... 11 Bravo Jan 2013 #69

Yeah, I'm sure you and Muhmmad Ali hang Lex Jan 2013 #73

He is a stud muffin. I love lance. stumpremover462 Jan 2013 #34

Stud muffin? undeterred Jan 2013 #83

most of you never followed cycling wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #36

Pantani. There's a place in my heart for him. Gregorian Jan 2013 #45

I still ride steel wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #62

We now know that Armstrong blood doped before this Ventoux climb taught_me_patience Jan 2013 #72

and Pantini didn't? wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #74

How could I ever forget that epic climb. I have a Colnago knockoff from 1967. Gregorian Jan 2013 #86

He was not the best. DanTex Jan 2013 #89

"They say" is just that "they say" wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #95

And "I think" is just "I think". DanTex Jan 2013 #97

and your proof is ? wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #102

Neither of us have any proof. DanTex Jan 2013 #108

No, not all cyclists doped. wtmusic Jan 2013 #103

Pantani and Urich both tested positive wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #111

Both were made irrelevant by EPO. wtmusic Jan 2013 #112

top athlete's are assholes - Jordan, Brady, Nicklaus,Russell, Bonds wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #113

Hampsten quit in '95, Mercier in '97 wtmusic Jan 2013 #115

high and mighty wilt the stilt Jan 2013 #116

They should throw him in solitary and make him eat nothing but Nutraloaf... backscatter712 Jan 2013 #38

I believed in him even when they were stripping his titles. Xithras Jan 2013 #39

Why on Earth would you have believed that? Codeine Jan 2013 #76

Stupidity mostly. Xithras Jan 2013 #99

The concept of the "sports hero" is relic of primative human society. Dawson Leery Jan 2013 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jan 2013 #43

I think he wants to face the music Taverner Jan 2013 #44

...and he's gonna rat on people...fuck him spanone Jan 2013 #46

Who do I look like? Cheryl Crow?nt Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #48

Not only is he a disgusting pig and a phoney, he's a Bush lover. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #50

Always wondered about that joesdaughter Jan 2013 #58

I'm not sure, but he did a "Newt Gingrich" and left her while she was still in recovery. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2013 #59

I did not know that- thanks for the info. n/t joesdaughter Jan 2013 #71

George Carlin - "Fuck Lance Armstrong!" SoCalMusicLover Jan 2013 #52

Carlin was light years ahead of most people malaise Jan 2013 #57

George knew. Whisp Jan 2013 #81

He raised $500 million for cancer research. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #63

That's a myth jsr Jan 2013 #65

Yikes. WilliamPitt Jan 2013 #68

He still owns all of his accomplishments. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #64

I love the 'It is OK because everyone was doing it' crap! n-t Logical Jan 2013 #77

It's not relevant; his success was due to his work and talent. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #78

And your though logic is why so much is fucked up in this country. They cheated so lets cheat! Logical Jan 2013 #82

Don't make assumptions. RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #84

He could hire the best people to help him cheat...that should count for something! wtmusic Jan 2013 #104

The betrayal Control-Z Jan 2013 #66

And likely to get sued Londoncalling Jan 2013 #70

Yup amuse bouche Jan 2013 #79

I read in The Sunday Times Londoncalling Jan 2013 #98

I would sue his arrogant amuse bouche Jan 2013 #100

Would that be "Fuck Lance Armstrong" because... TheMadMonk Jan 2013 #85

I never believed he wasn't a snake. ellisonz Jan 2013 #88

I can't help feeling bad for all the honest racers deprived of their shot at #1 due to this ass clow zonkers Jan 2013 #90

Lesson to be learned, perhaps? Don't look for heroes. BE a hero. randome Jan 2013 #91

He can still ride his bike longer and faster while on dope than anyone else. But who gives fuck. lonestarnot Jan 2013 #92

Hell no! dawg Jan 2013 #96

He's not my type, really. MineralMan Jan 2013 #101

This has been a good year for the mask to fall eilen Jan 2013 #105

Check out what The Onion store is selling: FSogol Jan 2013 #106

Check out Charlie Rose last night. Excellent analysis by writers following him LuckyLib Jan 2013 #107

Like I wrote in another thread: Tour de Martyr. nt Javaman Jan 2013 #110

I could care less if these guys juice. GoneOffShore Jan 2013 #114

With all the things going on on the planet, this is way down on my list to be upset about Marrah_G Jan 2013 #117