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Recursion

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50. This works really well with a "points" system

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:06 PM

Jan 2013

Let's say a gun gets a limit of 50 points. The gunmaker can "spend" those points on any of these categories:

(These numbers are just thrown out there, and using my illustrative categories rather than Scuba's)

Rate of fire
Bolt action is free
Pump and lever action are 10 points
Semi-automatic is 20 points

Muzzle energy (hash out multiple chamberings later)
1 point per 300 foot-pounds

Form factor
Handguns cost 20 points
Carbines cost 15
Full-length costs 10

Magazine capacity
No magazine is free
Internal magazines at 1 point per bullet
Accepting detachable magazines costs 20 points

I don't know. Maybe it's too complex, but it's very interesting to think about.

So you could have a .50 BMG, but it would have to be a single-shot bolt-action. Or you could have an AR-15 that fires subsonics.

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A "high firepower weapons ban" [View all] Scuba Jan 2013 OP

I really appreciate your post and attempt to move the conversation forward. I've been confused KittyWampus Jan 2013 #1

Agreed. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #60

Too restrictive. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #2

"more people are murdered by being beaten to death" Lex Jan 2013 #3

Media event murders are covered by my last suggestion. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #4

Should we also hold secret trials of those arrested for "rampage" shootings? onenote Jan 2013 #11

Good question. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #24

It would never survive constitutional scrutiny onenote Jan 2013 #45

Gun killings are the fault of the media! But *never ever ever* due to the gun! villager Jan 2013 #31

So as long as there is a break in between ... Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #102

No relevance to mass shootings that happen within minutes. nt Lex Jan 2013 #123

So .... Yes? Coyote_Tan Jan 2013 #153

I would think any meaningful progress ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #142

Then you'd be wrong, Straw Man. Lex Jan 2013 #150

OK, just as long as we're clear. Straw Man Jan 2013 #151

"Magazines can be printed on a 3-D printer. Have fun trying to outlaw them." Hugabear Jan 2013 #5

One solution would be to outlaw sale of guns that can even accept a magazine. Make all bullets stevenleser Jan 2013 #7

Well, that must be why all firearm related homicide in California is so low... waitasec... AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #108

Please continue... nt stevenleser Jan 2013 #127

Continue what? AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #134

Still not the same thing. But you knew that. nt stevenleser Jan 2013 #137

No, you described California's assault weapons ban. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #138

My Grandfathers Model 1892 rifle holds 14 rounds oneshooter Jan 2013 #121

The solution would depend on the gun stevenleser Jan 2013 #124

All of my collection is locked in 650# fireproof safes. oneshooter Jan 2013 #126

Restrictions on 3-D printers? GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #9

The technology exists to do so Hugabear Jan 2013 #17

How often will your police come around and inspect my printer? N/T GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #23

Depends - if you get caught with an illegal magazine in your possession Hugabear Jan 2013 #25

Most gun violence comes from the 1st round, not the 30th. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #32

Airplane crashes are rare but they get a lot of attention. Same with mass shootings Recursion Jan 2013 #75

Not all attention is rational. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #140

Some of the printers are open sources and will never support such restrictions ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #37

People are building these printers from the ground up, on their own with their own open source AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #139

Vaginas can be printed on 3D printers too, good luck "usin" one. Jus sayin, the 3D printer excuse is uponit7771 Jan 2013 #70

Take a look at this one: GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #91

Great job. GeorgeGist Jan 2013 #132

Make some suggestions then ... Scuba Jan 2013 #8

I think the item we agree on would take care of most of the problems. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #14

"As for printing magazines, make it a crime." guardian Jan 2013 #86

Are you kidding me? Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #12

The media ban would have to be very narrow to be Constitutional. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #20

That's a ridiculous suggestion. thucythucy Jan 2013 #106

You Can Have A Gun To Protect Yourself, But You Cannot Have A WMD Yavin4 Jan 2013 #21

WMD is used to mean nukes, poison gas, biological agents, radioactive fallout. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #29

WMD stands for Weapons of Mass Destruction Yavin4 Jan 2013 #39

So when Bush was claiming Saddam had WMDs... GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #47

Worldwide, Machine Guns Kill More People, in particular children, than a dirty bomb Yavin4 Jan 2013 #51

WMDs are by definition indiscriminate...guns not so much. N/T beevul Jan 2013 #112

What was discriminating about the victims in Aurora and Newtown? Yavin4 Jan 2013 #114

Bullets are not self guided. beevul Jan 2013 #116

So No One Has Ever Been Killed by a Stray Bullet? Yavin4 Jan 2013 #117

Improperly aimed is still aimed. beevul Jan 2013 #118

So if guns are now WMD, what are nukes, gas, and germs? N/T GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #135

I know you won't like hearing this... wercal Jan 2013 #155

You can't have a WMD because it is impossible to use defensively without killing innocent people. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #141

Whoa there ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #143

Too bad. Buy a 22. Deal with it. The free for all is coming to an end. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #41

You really think so? hack89 Jan 2013 #59

the tide has turned. Too many dead children. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #80

So why are at least 12 Senate Democrats saying they will not support an AWB? hack89 Jan 2013 #81

How the NRA is winning - article in the Washington Post hack89 Jan 2013 #82

Thank you, you are one of the people that have convinced me.. Kalidurga Jan 2013 #77

Your mind was already made up before you read any of my posts. N/T GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #94

Yes, I just said that. Kalidurga Jan 2013 #104

I did make two suggestions. Try reading again. N/T GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #136

Not sure how this would work. For example Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #87

Hmmmm.... Scuba Jan 2013 #88

Most folks up north do not trust their lives to pepper spray. Drahthaardogs Jan 2013 #107

Pepper spray will really help... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #131

I think you have to add muzzle velocity/muzzle energy to this list instead of Caliber stevenleser Jan 2013 #6

Please explain why that is a relevant metric ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #35

Muzzle Energy is often described as the destructive power of a given firearm or load stevenleser Jan 2013 #38

So you are arguing for banning/restricting hunting rounds ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #44

No. Edited to add... stevenleser Jan 2013 #46

The point you are missing is that you need that for large animals ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #83

When you go to hunt for hippos, elephants and whales, you get a special permit that allows use of stevenleser Jan 2013 #85

Elk, deer, moose are all larger game animals ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #89

Easy, use a points system Recursion Jan 2013 #40

This is in the right direction theKed Jan 2013 #76

Great idea ..... oldhippie Jan 2013 #10

Where do you think the limit should be set? Scuba Jan 2013 #13

They already vote republican by a vast majority. Really not a big threat. Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #42

It IS a big threat. NickB79 Jan 2013 #145

22% of democrats own guns. Some small percentage of those are "gun nuts". Warren Stupidity Jan 2013 #149

This is a good idea SpartanDem Jan 2013 #15

Too hard...someone would have to make a list with specs of every weapon ever made. nt jmg257 Jan 2013 #16

You forgot the satire thingy. Scuba Jan 2013 #18

Cause I was serious...Ok - I see where you are coming from. Please jmg257 Jan 2013 #52

Don't know. See Recursion's post # 50 for an interesting suggestion of how that might be determined. Scuba Jan 2013 #57

Sheesh - that is even worse! Holy shit!!! jmg257 Jan 2013 #64

Thanks, these suggestions are worthy of further discussion. Scuba Jan 2013 #67

No, that's the beauty of Scuba's idea: it doesn't require that Recursion Jan 2013 #36

Caliber is a bad metric hootinholler Jan 2013 #19

Best I've seen rrneck Jan 2013 #22

Please see my post #27, which I meant to reply to yours. Scuba Jan 2013 #28

"fire power" based on ammuniation isn't that simple. SayWut Jan 2013 #26

You're apparently better versed than I on these details. What would you suggest? Scuba Jan 2013 #30

It would help if I knew exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish. SayWut Jan 2013 #49

If you can't be constructive, perhaps this isn't the thread for you. Scuba Jan 2013 #56

I offered my knowledge of the subject, and my opinion of why your idea is full of holes. SayWut Jan 2013 #69

Muzzle energy is probably the best metric Recursion Jan 2013 #34

Unenforcible and problematic. SayWut Jan 2013 #63

I suggested a "points" system earlier Recursion Jan 2013 #66

You're right. SayWut Jan 2013 #73

Thanks. I used to proofread, even... Recursion Jan 2013 #74

The problem with the point system you suggest, is that there are too many variables. SayWut Jan 2013 #78

There are. And restricting types of guns isn't my personal thing Recursion Jan 2013 #79

My 1875 Sharps rifle uses a 530gr cast lead bullet oneshooter Jan 2013 #122

I could see an easy work-around for that though NickB79 Jan 2013 #146

so now Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #154

Yes, to perhaps inappropriately use a "shooting" metaphor, there is no silver bullet solution ... Scuba Jan 2013 #27

Well rrneck Jan 2013 #48

Or we have to mandate all firearms transfers go through an FFL Recursion Jan 2013 #72

It gets real complicated real fast. rrneck Jan 2013 #111

I get that, and I don't mind sticking with transfer of actual legal ownership Recursion Jan 2013 #129

I can see that. And the trace data would be invalueable. rrneck Jan 2013 #130

I really appreciate this thread. Some thoughts about rate of fire. Recursion Jan 2013 #33

I suspect rate-of-fire has to come from the base design. I doubt one can retro-fit that ... Scuba Jan 2013 #43

Rapid-firing is low-powered. HooptieWagon Jan 2013 #58

Which is why ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #144

So let's assume that 3 people break into my home. I can only shoot one shot every five seconds ... spin Jan 2013 #95

This works really well with a "points" system Recursion Jan 2013 #50

Good concept. I'm not an expert but does an AR-15 then get ... Scuba Jan 2013 #62

Oh, yeah, the numbers were completely off the top of my head Recursion Jan 2013 #65

What do you think of this? ... Scuba Jan 2013 #68

jmg257 has a point, and his way is simpler Recursion Jan 2013 #71

Include the range of fire ... the weapon's effective kill distance. JoePhilly Jan 2013 #53

Except murders basically never happen outside of 15' Recursion Jan 2013 #55

Maybe we use a standard size school room, or movie theater? JoePhilly Jan 2013 #61

Just ban black guns. HooptieWagon Jan 2013 #54

Can we stop with the endless litany guardian Jan 2013 #84

Strawman much? nt Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #90

It's satire, not a straw man guardian Jan 2013 #92

No, it's strawman. You just added some satire in there for good measure. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #93

I think the majority of those making such proposals do want a blanket ban. guardian Jan 2013 #96

Oh, snap girlfriend! Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #97

Just as I thought guardian Jan 2013 #98

You're the one putting thoughts in people's heads. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2013 #99

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #100

You started the subthread with snark/satire and then complain about snark? Fumesucker Jan 2013 #133

Some here clearly do ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2013 #101

Uh-huh. Straw Man Jan 2013 #148

I don't want to ban them all. That's an NRA talking point. Why do you repeat it? Scuba Jan 2013 #105

That's NOT an NRA talking point! NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #109

A few DU members do not make decisions for the President or Congress... Scuba Jan 2013 #110

The poster was grumbling about Posts on DU. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #113

Add muzzle velocity cthulu2016 Jan 2013 #103

Caliber category is a little wierd. OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #115

Nice Try On Your Part. But You See What's Happened To Your Thread. Paladin Jan 2013 #119

There are some constructive posts. I knew the antis would try to muddy the waters ... Scuba Jan 2013 #120

Wait, what? 2ndAmendmentRights Jan 2013 #125

A very fine point, if this does not seem reasonable let's go for a bb gun Thinkingabout Jan 2013 #128

Have you ever considered ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #147

good ideas samsingh Jan 2013 #152

I like the concept, JoeyT Jan 2013 #156