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geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
86. Why do you hate the planet? Boating is much worse for the environment.
Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:53 PM
Jan 2013
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2006/dec/20/cruises.green

Climate Care, carbon offsetting company

“According to our calculations, a cruiseliner such as Queen Mary 2 emits 0.43kg of CO2 per passenger mile, compared with 0.257kg for a long-haul flight (even allowing for the further damage of emissions being produced in the upper atmosphere). Sometimes our instincts about what’s best for the environment are wrong and this shows the importance of calculating the actual carbon emissions from different activities and making our decisions - both as individuals and government policy - based on the real numbers. We would certainly welcome the cruise liner industry taking a closer look at their carbon footprint. As these figures show, it is not negligible.”

Richard Hammond, the Guardian's green travel columnist

"Quite aside from the carbon emissions, there is a high cost to the ocean. The cruise industry has a poor record in terms of waste water treatment and disposal, and therefore it has to clean up its act if it is to be considered as an environmentally friendly means of travel. The size of the industry is also crucial: cruising is the fastest growing sector of the travel industry. In 2003, 9.3 million passengers took a cruise while the International Eco-tourism Society projects that 17 million passengers will do so in 2010.”

Gwyn Topham, author of Overboard: the stories cruise lines don't want told

“Mile for mile, the carbon footprint for a cruise is worse - and many passengers will take planes to join a cruise. Since the big cruise lines were hit with massive fines in the US for polluting waters a few years ago, they have made improvements - but ships are not facing that same kind of scrutiny outside Alaska and California. The overall benefits to the ports of call are questionable. And while environmentalists do generally agree that new ships are greener, it takes a long time to adapt older ships and in many areas - such as cleaner fuel, better waste treatment systems - campaigners think cruise lines aren't doing nearly enough.”

Tricia Barnett, director of Tourism Concern

"It’s not greener, and it's a much broader issue than carbon emissions alone. Cruise ships are the ultimate all-inclusive holiday experience where everything is paid for before you board. So the benefits to locals when you dock are minimal, but they have to deal with the waste that the cruise ship leaves behind. While you're on board huge amounts of electricity will be used to provide everyone with the services they expect.”

Justin Francis, Responsible Travel

“You might naturally assume that a ship would emit less carbon dioxide than a long-haul flight but it’s not the case. On a typical one-week voyage a cruise ship generates more than 50 tonnes of garbage and a million tonnes of grey (waste) water, 210,000 gallons of sewage and 35,000 gallons of oil-contaminated water. Some of this is pumped into ocean and some treated.
The cultural impact of large numbers of tourists descending on, in some cases, small destinations has also been overlooked. People are after simple answers, simple solutions. But we’ve oversimplified it with flying: if people really want to reduce their carbon, they can make a larger difference by lagging their boiler or taking showers not baths, rather than cutting out a flight to somewhere which needs it.”

George Monbiot, environmental campaigner and author

“There are remarkably few figures. But George Marshall of the Climate Outreach Information Network has conducted a rough initial calculation for the Queen Elizabeth II. Cunard says the ship burns 433 tonnes of fuel a day, and takes six days to travel from Southampton to New York. If the ship is full, every passenger with a return ticket consumes 2.9 tonnes. A tonne of shipping fuel contains 0.85 tonnes of carbon, which produces 3.1 tonnes of carbon dioxide when it is burnt. Every passenger is responsible for 9.1 tonnes of emissions. Travelling to New York and back on the QEII, in other words, uses almost 7.6 times as much carbon as making the same journey by plane.”

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I use USPS for shipping Fumesucker Jan 2013 #1
The pounds CO2 per mile traveled per person for flying is about the same as driving a car at 38 MPG. NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #2
And don't fly alone, either! frazzled Jan 2013 #5
Take train tama Jan 2013 #33
tama... as soon as we have a train that can travel the same speed as a jet, I'm on board. n/t a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #70
Ah, the Gray Gentlemen, the Time Thieves tama Jan 2013 #77
People actually think we'll always have air travel... NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #92
That's not practicable in many cases frazzled Jan 2013 #90
And not to mention tama Jan 2013 #95
to visit my son i have to fly riverbendviewgal Jan 2013 #144
Umm, no. MadHound Jan 2013 #7
Airlines would do good to do folding props until they get altitude, take off energy is REALLY high uponit7771 Jan 2013 #126
Um, nothing in your post varies from what I wrote. NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #156
I stand by the general points drawn from the data in my post. NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #157
What if I drive an electric car in a nuclear or hydroelectric powered neighborhood... OneTenthofOnePercent Jan 2013 #148
ZNC! NYC_SKP Jan 2013 #150
I have quinnox Jan 2013 #3
I don't fly unless I absolutely, positively HAVE to. HughBeaumont Jan 2013 #4
Agreed! Sekhmets Daughter Jan 2013 #29
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #6
+1. closeupready Jan 2013 #22
You forgot to say he's fat and it snowed last week so har har you librul dummies and he's fat. 2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #102
One small correction; A HERETIC I AM Jan 2013 #8
Dont attack air travel, support Better solutions: Enviro Friendly Jet engines + High Speed Rail stevenleser Jan 2013 #9
We would be best served by a system that uses already existing rights of way Fumesucker Jan 2013 #12
Yes, existing rights of way. IIRC, most trains I have taken in Europe travel alongside highways. stevenleser Jan 2013 #14
You don't need new tech for more efficient aircraft, turbo-prop engines are more efficient and... JVS Jan 2013 #17
I think there are two issues, the noise you mention and the perception of it being older and less stevenleser Jan 2013 #18
No thanks. I like getting a little thing called a paycheck. B2G Jan 2013 #10
Sure. When all the concerned celebrities and politicians give up their private jets. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #11
Then why tama Jan 2013 #34
If me stopping flying generated the same publicity as Al Gore and Bono would Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #37
Weird "logic" tama Jan 2013 #42
I notice you didn't cite any RW public person. 2ndAmForComputers Jan 2013 #103
The standard character assassination strategy tama Jan 2013 #108
They were the first two names that sprang to mind Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #125
So, will we have a new fleet of cross-Atlantic liners that can make the trip in 3 days? sinkingfeeling Jan 2013 #13
No thanks. zappaman Jan 2013 #15
Clouds look pretty much same everywhere - if you get window seat tama Jan 2013 #35
If I could drive to Palau or Australia or, this year, Thailand...I would. n/t zappaman Jan 2013 #43
By ship... tama Jan 2013 #45
If my vacations was over a month long, maybe. zappaman Jan 2013 #49
When my friends were in traveling age tama Jan 2013 #55
That's pretty awesome! zappaman Jan 2013 #57
Nice bit of attitude there, MadHound Jan 2013 #47
Sorry, but flying is a reality. zappaman Jan 2013 #48
Rationalizing your selfish attitude, hmm. MadHound Jan 2013 #50
ummm... zappaman Jan 2013 #52
I do what is necessary to keep my carbon footprint as small as possible, MadHound Jan 2013 #60
Bully for you! zappaman Jan 2013 #62
In truth tama Jan 2013 #61
I agree! zappaman Jan 2013 #63
K&R The first step to solving a problem is to understand that you have a problem. Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #16
I would never see my family Prism Jan 2013 #19
No thanks. closeupready Jan 2013 #20
Airflight is a drop in the bucket. China spews more carbon in an hour... Taverner Jan 2013 #21
Sad, but likely true. AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #153
I know you mean well, MadHound, Blue_In_AK Jan 2013 #23
Heh RobertEarl Jan 2013 #24
Completely wrong. People are just demanding better solutions than "Dont use airplanes for anything" stevenleser Jan 2013 #25
Yeah, keep on trucking RobertEarl Jan 2013 #31
Translation: "It has to be my way." No, it doesn't. Those are perfectly good solutions. stevenleser Jan 2013 #36
Not my way RobertEarl Jan 2013 #41
If I can get there in 2 days or less driving, I drive liberal N proud Jan 2013 #26
Absolutely would not give up air travel, ever Godhumor Jan 2013 #27
I don't get vacations long enough to drive anywhere. LeftyMom Jan 2013 #28
I am sure in a few years... AsahinaKimi Jan 2013 #30
One good thing about 911.........no air traffic for a few days thelordofhell Jan 2013 #32
Not over lower Manhattan. n/t DeadEyeDyck Jan 2013 #68
Some people say things that are absolutely stunning, don't they? alphafemale Jan 2013 #137
The responses to this thread are stunning, MadHound Jan 2013 #38
Hell, if convenience is now something to be ashamed of, why don't we go back to horse and buggy? Godhumor Jan 2013 #44
Let's see, what is that tradeoff? MadHound Jan 2013 #46
So, screed about cars, too Godhumor Jan 2013 #59
Shhhhh...the OP has created their own perfect world for themselves zappaman Jan 2013 #53
At certain phase tama Jan 2013 #71
ok zappaman Jan 2013 #73
I guess he has a windmill Sissyk Jan 2013 #113
Amish are doing fine tama Jan 2013 #106
Yeah. They run the best puppy mills. nt alphafemale Jan 2013 #138
Maybe you should take a math class before advancing idiotic ideas geek tragedy Jan 2013 #88
No... greytdemocrat Jan 2013 #107
Are you stunned that Al Gore travels around by private jet? (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #134
Thanks tama Jan 2013 #39
Hey, my first car was a 1952 DeSoto! Oh, and flying IS about the worst thing you can do to the Kip Humphrey Jan 2013 #40
One more reason why I want them to bring back the airships... Ian David Jan 2013 #51
OTOH, airplanes are mass transit of a sort Hekate Jan 2013 #54
Be nice if there was a choice. MindPilot Jan 2013 #56
see this vid: air traffic in 24 hours... Whisp Jan 2013 #58
No problem union_maid Jan 2013 #64
Carbon Tax FreeJoe Jan 2013 #65
I quit flying when my last out-of-state relative died SoCalDem Jan 2013 #66
hmmmm zappaman Jan 2013 #67
Hmmm, looks like your conscience is rattling your cage. MadHound Jan 2013 #69
Project much? zappaman Jan 2013 #72
LOL, your very post belies your words, MadHound Jan 2013 #74
LOL! zappaman Jan 2013 #75
I'm part of the problem, too tama Jan 2013 #89
How do I get to London next month? Glassunion Jan 2013 #76
Boat. MadHound Jan 2013 #78
You realize that the large sea going vessel Godhumor Jan 2013 #83
Why do you hate the planet? Boating is much worse for the environment. geek tragedy Jan 2013 #86
Boats are definitely better for cargo than they are for people for energy efficiency. Silent3 Jan 2013 #91
All ships have crews that need all of that (well, room service???!!!) tama Jan 2013 #99
And for every one member of the crew... Silent3 Jan 2013 #131
Interesting yes tama Jan 2013 #136
Crossing and cruising are two very different trips. MindPilot Jan 2013 #104
A boat would not be economical. I also can't afford the time off of work to make the roundtrip. Glassunion Jan 2013 #94
Maybe you can fly over with your gilded angel wings? zappaman Jan 2013 #79
+infinity alphafemale Jan 2013 #145
And how do I get back to Hawai'i? KamaAina Jan 2013 #96
Take the tunnel. Glassunion Jan 2013 #98
Broom donheld Jan 2013 #160
One thing they found in the week after 9/11 Warpy Jan 2013 #80
And don't have children. And don't eat meat or cheese. And stop using the Internet geek tragedy Jan 2013 #81
Well said! zappaman Jan 2013 #82
If you use a refrigerator or a washing machine, you're like Hitler. nt geek tragedy Jan 2013 #84
heh RobertEarl Jan 2013 #93
Electricity and houses and meat didn't exist 100 years ago? geek tragedy Jan 2013 #97
Who said houses and meat didn't exist? Only you, geek RobertEarl Jan 2013 #117
Well, sure the rest of the planet would be better off if 4 billion people geek tragedy Jan 2013 #121
See? There is our difference RobertEarl Jan 2013 #127
"It really Is. That. Simple." zappaman Jan 2013 #128
No. Its ecologically minded RobertEarl Jan 2013 #133
Self hating humans tama Jan 2013 #141
No. I did my part by not procreating. I'm flying. n/t MadrasT Jan 2013 #85
Wrong, wrong, wrong. mn9driver Jan 2013 #87
Facts are good... SidDithers Jan 2013 #101
Wow. 378 pounds of co2! RobertEarl Jan 2013 #105
Aviation is 2% of world carbon emissions. geek tragedy Jan 2013 #109
... zappaman Jan 2013 #110
Check this tama Jan 2013 #115
But check this: geek tragedy Jan 2013 #118
Easy solution: tama Jan 2013 #129
Aviation 2% and computers 2%? RobertEarl Jan 2013 #123
Looked and found this: tama Jan 2013 #112
But did you read this part? geek tragedy Jan 2013 #116
Yep, see my reply to your post ;) tama Jan 2013 #124
I flew recently Travis_0004 Jan 2013 #120
Don't worry RobertEarl Jan 2013 #130
Your Prius will blow nearly 500 pounds of CO2 into the atmosphere, making the same trip. mn9driver Jan 2013 #132
See Tama's post RobertEarl Jan 2013 #135
I have family overseas so I have to sometimes gollygee Jan 2013 #100
But I cannot drink gin and tonics, non-stop, to JFK. DollarBillHines Jan 2013 #111
I last flew in 1998 IDemo Jan 2013 #114
I'm amazed at moparlunatic Jan 2013 #119
you think only Republicans fly on airplanes? nt geek tragedy Jan 2013 #122
Yes. name not needed Jan 2013 #142
I believe those are bears you are thinking of Godhumor Jan 2013 #146
If true progressives tama Jan 2013 #154
"LOL" is such a cliche. But this is a rare occasion when I actually did (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #159
it's fine for me. I don't have to travel much BainsBane Jan 2013 #139
Sixteen reccs out of 140 comments pscot Jan 2013 #140
This is the most entertaining thread on DU in a long time Godhumor Jan 2013 #143
Eat Less Meat waterwatcher123 Jan 2013 #147
I think I will be more careful about when I fly now...... Swede Atlanta Jan 2013 #149
Would that I could nt Xipe Totec Jan 2013 #151
Did you know the internet causes as many emissions as the entire airline industry? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #152
Without internet tama Jan 2013 #155
Did you know... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #158
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