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In reply to the discussion: Why do so many people idolize V for vendetta's anarchy? It is not democratic to blow up buildings [View all]Leopolds Ghost
(12,875 posts)104. Here's some interesting Guy Fawkes Day poems from the era before Guy Fawkes became "safe"
Part of the original goal in making Guy Fawkes a "safe" figure of fun, as opposed to an object of hatred,
was not so much anarchy (although Anglo-Saxons in general have a long tradition of being notoriously
skeptical of authority) to tamp down on the following state sanctioned sentiment of the 1600s-1800s:
Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.
Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, t'was his intent
To blow up the King and Parli'ment.
Three-score barrels of powder below
To prove old England's overthrow;
By God's providence he was catch'd (or by God's mercy*)
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holla boys, Holla boys, let the bells ring.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, God save the King!
And what should we do with him? Burn him!
In more common use the "bonfire cry" is occasionally altered with the last three lines (after "burning match"
A traitor to the Crown by his action,
No Parli'ment mercy from any faction,
His just end should'st be grim,
What should we do? Burn him!
Holla boys, holla boys, let the bells ring,
Holla boys, holla boys, God save the King!
A penny loaf to feed the Pope
A farthing o' cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down.
A fagot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar.
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head.
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hoorah!
Hip hip hoorah hoorah!
Thank God they were Law-Abiding Brits!
A variant on the foregoing:
Remember, remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason, why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
Remember, remember, the fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot!
A stick or a stake for King James' sake
Will you please to give us a fagot
If you can't give us one, we'll take two;
The better for us and the worse for you!
Note that the emphasis is on treason to the British monarchy, not on his anti-authoritarian sentiments or lack thereof; this makes sense, for in fact Guy Fawkes was merely a pop culture symbol. The only anti-authoritarians of the time were radical Protestants who opposed the monarchy, opposed the aristocratic system, and opposed the Church of England.
Many of these moved to the United States, where their descendants have sadly betrayed their centuries-old quest to create a better world free of corporate and state oppression. In the American colonies, great divide was between the Puritans and Roundheads of the North (commoners, merchants, and opponents of the Crown who fled to the colonies) versus the Cavaliers of the South (landed gentry and their Scotch-Irish [font color="grey"]slaves[/font] indentured servants.)
Another piece of popular doggerel:
Guy, guy, guy
Poke him in the eye,
Put him on the bonfire,
And there let him die
Or, today used frequently, instead of "Put him on the bonfire", "Hang him on a lamppost".
No Terrorist Appeasement Here...
[font size="5"]"Death For You... Life For Our Crop!"[/font]
Suddenly beggars started dressing up as Guy Fawkes in the 19th century...
...a variant, sung by children in Lancashire whilst begging "A Penny For The Guy":
Remember, remember the fifth of November
It's Gunpowder Plot, we never forgot
Put your hand in your pocket and pull out your purse
A ha'penny or a penny will do you no harm
Who's that knocking at the window?
Who's that knocking at the door?
The following is a song sung when knocking on doors asking for money to buy fireworks, or combustibles for a bonfire (known as "Cob-coaling"
Here comes three jolly rovers, all in one row.
We're coming a cob-coiling for t' Bon Fire Plot.
Bon Fire Plot from morning till night !
If you'll give us owt, we'll steal nowt, but bid you goodnight.
They also burned (the considerably more respectable, albeit no less violent in his youth) George Washington in effigy for some time period around after the Revolutionary War, so I regret to report that morality does not seem to be the operating excuse for determining who gets condemned and/or burned at the stake in popular celebrations.
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Why do so many people idolize V for vendetta's anarchy? It is not democratic to blow up buildings [View all]
graham4anything
Jan 2013
OP
Reread the Declaration of Independence. Our country was founded on treason and anarchy.
rhett o rick
Jan 2013
#6
Bringing up the "debates" to provide evidence of legitimacy is indicative of missing the point
TheKentuckian
Jan 2013
#78
Sorry to be the one to break it to you. By-the-way look up the definition of
rhett o rick
Jan 2013
#94
Exactly--the colonists really did try to reason with the crown. King George put his boot up their
MADem
Jan 2013
#24
That's something of a simplification. Both sides misunderstood what the other was aiming at....
Moonwalk
Jan 2013
#103
There were plenty of radicals at the time of the American Revolution. They didn't win the debate
Leopolds Ghost
Jan 2013
#85
The colonists were British subjects and even some of the representatives at the Continental Congress
rhett o rick
Jan 2013
#57
I proudly wear my avitar to remember the actual good that was done in America.
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#26
Wasn't good to be anyone in the way of V who was in Big Ben at the time
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#110
so it's his fault that the cops will shoot somebody who is not threatening them?
hfojvt
Jan 2013
#18
V knew perfectly well the cops were looking for a guy in a black cloak and a Guy Fawkes mask.
backscatter712
Jan 2013
#68
I think the guy ordering the troops to stand down was likely following protocol
Hippo_Tron
Jan 2013
#97
why does he seem like a villain? he was an ordinary soldier, & as such, unlikely to have been
HiPointDem
Jan 2013
#115
Because there are a hell of a lot of angry people on both sides of the political spectrum.
randome
Jan 2013
#10
except for one chemistry grad student and a few unimportant janitors you are saying???
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#25
BTW, there's a pretty good discussion in the Socialist Progressives group.......
socialist_n_TN
Jan 2013
#51
Precisely the opposite problem. What the ancient Greeks called democracy is now labeled anarchy
Leopolds Ghost
Jan 2013
#90
We don't live in ancient greece though. And the founders did not set up one person/one vote
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#108
I've never seen the movie or read the book, but I'm tired of seeing those masks everywhere n/t
arcane1
Jan 2013
#53
Immediate gratification, instead of disciplined and work-wo/manly commitment to change of the
patrice
Jan 2013
#63
Using violence against tyranny is justified. Using violence against a democracy isn't.
redgreenandblue
Jan 2013
#89
sheesh, complain, complain, yet you are free/open to write on a board google searched worldwide
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#121
Don't vote for Jeb Bush and it never will. Don't vote 3rd party and it never will.
graham4anything
Jan 2013
#124
Here's some interesting Guy Fawkes Day poems from the era before Guy Fawkes became "safe"
Leopolds Ghost
Jan 2013
#104