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Leopolds Ghost

(12,875 posts)
104. Here's some interesting Guy Fawkes Day poems from the era before Guy Fawkes became "safe"
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 06:54 PM
Jan 2013

Part of the original goal in making Guy Fawkes a "safe" figure of fun, as opposed to an object of hatred,
was not so much anarchy (although Anglo-Saxons in general have a long tradition of being notoriously
skeptical of authority) to tamp down on the following state sanctioned sentiment of the 1600s-1800s:

Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know of no reason
Why the Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.
Guy Fawkes, Guy Fawkes, t'was his intent
To blow up the King and Parli'ment.
Three-score barrels of powder below
To prove old England's overthrow;
By God's providence he was catch'd
(or by God's mercy*)
With a dark lantern and burning match.
Holla boys, Holla boys, let the bells ring.
Holloa boys, holloa boys, God save the King!
And what should we do with him? Burn him!

In more common use the "bonfire cry" is occasionally altered with the last three lines (after "burning match&quot being supplanted by the following;

A traitor to the Crown by his action,
No Parli'ment mercy from any faction,
His just end should'st be grim,
What should we do? Burn him!
Holla boys, holla boys, let the bells ring,
Holla boys, holla boys, God save the King!


A penny loaf to feed the Pope
A farthing o' cheese to choke him.
A pint of beer to rinse it down.
A fagot of sticks to burn him.
Burn him in a tub of tar.
Burn him like a blazing star.
Burn his body from his head.
Then we'll say ol' Pope is dead.
Hip hip hoorah!
Hip hip hoorah hoorah!

Thank God they were Law-Abiding Brits!

A variant on the foregoing:

Remember, remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason, why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.

Remember, remember, the fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot!
A stick or a stake for King James' sake
Will you please to give us a fagot
If you can't give us one, we'll take two;
The better for us and the worse for you!

Note that the emphasis is on treason to the British monarchy, not on his anti-authoritarian sentiments or lack thereof; this makes sense, for in fact Guy Fawkes was merely a pop culture symbol. The only anti-authoritarians of the time were radical Protestants who opposed the monarchy, opposed the aristocratic system, and opposed the Church of England.

Many of these moved to the United States, where their descendants have sadly betrayed their centuries-old quest to create a better world free of corporate and state oppression. In the American colonies, great divide was between the Puritans and Roundheads of the North (commoners, merchants, and opponents of the Crown who fled to the colonies) versus the Cavaliers of the South (landed gentry and their Scotch-Irish [font color="grey"]slaves[/font] indentured servants.)

Another piece of popular doggerel:

Guy, guy, guy
Poke him in the eye,
Put him on the bonfire,
And there let him die

Or, today used frequently, instead of "Put him on the bonfire", "Hang him on a lamppost".

No Terrorist Appeasement Here...

[font size="5"]"Death For You... Life For Our Crop!"[/font]

Suddenly beggars started dressing up as Guy Fawkes in the 19th century...

...a variant, sung by children in Lancashire whilst begging "A Penny For The Guy":

Remember, remember the fifth of November
It's Gunpowder Plot, we never forgot
Put your hand in your pocket and pull out your purse
A ha'penny or a penny will do you no harm
Who's that knocking at the window?
Who's that knocking at the door?

The following is a song sung when knocking on doors asking for money to buy fireworks, or combustibles for a bonfire (known as "Cob-coaling&quot . There are many variations,

Here comes three jolly rovers, all in one row.
We're coming a cob-coiling for t' Bon Fire Plot.
Bon Fire Plot from morning till night !
If you'll give us owt, we'll steal nowt, but bid you goodnight.

They also burned (the considerably more respectable, albeit no less violent in his youth) George Washington in effigy for some time period around after the Revolutionary War, so I regret to report that morality does not seem to be the operating excuse for determining who gets condemned and/or burned at the stake in popular celebrations.

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Moore himself is troubled by that Recursion Jan 2013 #1
What franchise is that? Marr Jan 2013 #65
Pirates of the Caribbean Recursion Jan 2013 #66
Ah, I never saw the ones with the East India Company. Marr Jan 2013 #71
Yeah it's only alluded to in the first one Recursion Jan 2013 #72
The third film has the greatest negotiation scene. Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #106
Let me help you with that MattBaggins Jan 2013 #69
You mean "Vendetta". Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #2
Even if choice A and choice B.. sendero Jan 2013 #31
Politicians work for what gets them elected Chathamization Jan 2013 #59
I vacillate... sendero Jan 2013 #70
Apathy's a problem Chathamization Jan 2013 #76
Except when "the people" include corporations. krispos42 Jan 2013 #34
Because of the perception theKed Jan 2013 #49
Wasn't the building filled with bad guys? nt MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #3
Well, bad only if you're Catholic Marengo Jan 2013 #40
I think the OP was referring to the movie MannyGoldstein Jan 2013 #42
Random thought I had yesterday: XemaSab Jan 2013 #4
One quibble riqster Jan 2013 #32
Which makes the film even more like Fight Club XemaSab Jan 2013 #82
I agree... Dr Hobbitstein Jan 2013 #5
Uh, anarchists punks are not right wingers.., a la izquierda Jan 2013 #75
Anarchists punks Dr Hobbitstein Jan 2013 #92
Reread the Declaration of Independence. Our country was founded on treason and anarchy. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #6
So President Obama did not win two democratic elections? Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #9
Bringing up the "debates" to provide evidence of legitimacy is indicative of missing the point TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #78
Obama was chosen well before the elections Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #81
Sorry to be the one to break it to you. By-the-way look up the definition of rhett o rick Jan 2013 #94
It was hardly anarchy frazzled Jan 2013 #14
Exactly--the colonists really did try to reason with the crown. King George put his boot up their MADem Jan 2013 #24
Well, he seemed pretty fond of the conquired Quebecois Sen. Walter Sobchak Jan 2013 #83
That's something of a simplification. Both sides misunderstood what the other was aiming at.... Moonwalk Jan 2013 #103
Common misconception tama Jan 2013 #27
I think perhaps the misconception is yours frazzled Jan 2013 #41
There were plenty of radicals at the time of the American Revolution. They didn't win the debate Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #85
Huh? frazzled Jan 2013 #93
I don't think you quite grok the intent of the mask. Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #101
The colonists were British subjects and even some of the representatives at the Continental Congress rhett o rick Jan 2013 #57
Organized armed revolt is not the same as anarchism frazzled Jan 2013 #64
I stand corrected. I check the internets and see what you are saying. rhett o rick Jan 2013 #99
Thanks for the thanks! frazzled Jan 2013 #100
Shhh, dont spread it around. Not sure it's legal. nm rhett o rick Jan 2013 #102
Do you understand the meaning of anarchy? enlightenment Jan 2013 #52
Yes I think I do rhett o rick Jan 2013 #61
That's true, but your avatar blew up Indochina DerekG Jan 2013 #7
I proudly wear my avitar to remember the actual good that was done in America. graham4anything Jan 2013 #26
Well, I guess it was a good thing to be an American under LbJ... a la izquierda Jan 2013 #73
Wasn't good to be anyone in the way of V who was in Big Ben at the time graham4anything Jan 2013 #110
Interesting thoughts... I will say this Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #105
At least get the movie's title right. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #8
Fawkes wanted to make it illegal to be a Protestant Recursion Jan 2013 #11
The creation and use of symbols doesn't always make sense. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #12
I don't think V was very much of a villain hfojvt Jan 2013 #15
He was very much an anti-hero, and at times, he was incredibly cruel. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #16
so it's his fault that the cops will shoot somebody who is not threatening them? hfojvt Jan 2013 #18
V knew perfectly well the cops were looking for a guy in a black cloak and a Guy Fawkes mask. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #68
what did he do to Evey? hfojvt Jan 2013 #74
Ah, then the scalding with hot steam must have been good clean fun... backscatter712 Jan 2013 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author backscatter712 Jan 2013 #62
I think the guy ordering the troops to stand down was likely following protocol Hippo_Tron Jan 2013 #97
why does he seem like a villain? he was an ordinary soldier, & as such, unlikely to have been HiPointDem Jan 2013 #115
Because there are a hell of a lot of angry people on both sides of the political spectrum. randome Jan 2013 #10
I don't see many people "idolizing" it Scootaloo Jan 2013 #13
I don't appreciate being likened to those monsters... Comrade_McKenzie Jan 2013 #17
If you're going to get your panties in a knot over a COMIC BOOK Matariki Jan 2013 #19
you mean . . . Batman and Superman are fictional?!? That hurts. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2013 #54
Where is the anarchy? hfojvt Jan 2013 #20
except for one chemistry grad student and a few unimportant janitors you are saying??? graham4anything Jan 2013 #25
I work as a janitor myself hfojvt Jan 2013 #39
Alan Moore is anarchist tama Jan 2013 #28
maybe Chevy Chase is too hfojvt Jan 2013 #43
You are free tama Jan 2013 #44
actually, not really hfojvt Jan 2013 #46
What makes art art tama Jan 2013 #48
to me that sounds like hfojvt Jan 2013 #58
To me that sounds tama Jan 2013 #67
dialogue would involve hfojvt Jan 2013 #116
No intention to attack, quite the opposite tama Jan 2013 #119
In the film - which is what most people know intaglio Jan 2013 #21
Wow, can you get anymore apples to oranges with a post? Rex Jan 2013 #22
Because V was fighting what was basically, a neo-Nazi government. AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #23
The American Revolution was not very Democratic either stultusporcos Jan 2013 #29
Oh, but that was a GOOD revolution! So many are BAD (Cuba, e.g.)! *sarcasm* WinkyDink Jan 2013 #47
and what of China? ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2013 #55
Anarchy is democracy tama Jan 2013 #30
anarchy is NOT the democratic party, which this particular site is graham4anything Jan 2013 #33
Do you have problem tama Jan 2013 #35
You simply don't understand what anarchy is all about Harmony Blue Jan 2013 #36
There has been a meme floated about lately...... socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #50
BTW, there's a pretty good discussion in the Socialist Progressives group....... socialist_n_TN Jan 2013 #51
anarchy on either side is not the democratic way. It is anarchy graham4anything Jan 2013 #84
Precisely the opposite problem. What the ancient Greeks called democracy is now labeled anarchy Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #90
We don't live in ancient greece though. And the founders did not set up one person/one vote graham4anything Jan 2013 #108
Blowing up buildings is not anarchism, that was a right wing theocrat Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #125
Libertarians are NOT anarchists Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #98
LBJ was infinitely more liberal than Obama. n/t Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #86
This site is not the democratic party. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #91
this particular site is not the democratic party n/t fishwax Jan 2013 #111
I Dunno---Maybe Because It Was Just A Fucking Movie? Paladin Jan 2013 #37
Based on a well respected graphic novel Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #88
The book is brilliant Nevernose Jan 2013 #38
I think someone is metaphorically challenged. marmar Jan 2013 #45
Ya think? Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #114
I've never seen the movie or read the book, but I'm tired of seeing those masks everywhere n/t arcane1 Jan 2013 #53
Well, institutional democracy is one form... Deep13 Jan 2013 #56
..... obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #60
Immediate gratification, instead of disciplined and work-wo/manly commitment to change of the patrice Jan 2013 #63
Within the context of the movie, what the hell else was to be done? TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #107
What are you talking about? tama Jan 2013 #120
Thanks for the timely post. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #77
v is an anti-hero part of a long tradition in superhero comic books Phillip McCleod Jan 2013 #79
suttler is bush; creedy is cheney and dwp6577 Jan 2013 #80
It's like when the Rebel Alliance blew up the Death Star in Star Wars. limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #87
Using violence against tyranny is justified. Using violence against a democracy isn't. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #89
that sounds like the NRA simplicity. graham4anything Jan 2013 #109
Words have meanings. redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #118
sheesh, complain, complain, yet you are free/open to write on a board google searched worldwide graham4anything Jan 2013 #121
Point to where I said that the USA is a tyranny? redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #123
Don't vote for Jeb Bush and it never will. Don't vote 3rd party and it never will. graham4anything Jan 2013 #124
US tama Jan 2013 #122
That is easy to answer. Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #95
It wasn't very democratic for the American colonists Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #96
Thank you for pointing this out(+1) Lady Freedom Returns Jan 2013 #117
Here's some interesting Guy Fawkes Day poems from the era before Guy Fawkes became "safe" Leopolds Ghost Jan 2013 #104
Our founding fathers were at one time traitors davidn3600 Jan 2013 #113
I would... deathrind Jan 2013 #126
Sometimes the only viable solution is to blow shit up. bowens43 Jan 2013 #127
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