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NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)

160. The ecosystem is a necessary system for life

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:26 PM

Jan 2013

And destroying it will lead to pain, famine and death (IPCC AR4 based studies are predicting billions of deaths from this "lunch&quot . Why would we hand off a world of misery to our children and other species? Its just stupid. You don't have to like nature to realize we need it.

The natural system has evolved over billions of years to utilize biological waste as inputs for further biological activity in a delicate, complex system. We are altering the landscape faster than evolution can keep up with our waste, and thereby creating imbalances that are killing life and causing sickness.

Its not even about aggregate impacts over time. With 8 billion people producing and consuming what we do on average, its is all breakdown all the time, on a downward slope into what is being projected as the worse catastrophe in human history. If that sounds like "lunch" to you despite the science, apparently we have little more to discuss.

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We should tax wealth apart from income...and put a backstop to prevent capital flight [View all] srican69 Jan 2013 OP

How are you going to get every person in the US to file an asset listing yearly? dkf Jan 2013 #1

If it's such an onerous task Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #9

what if you own bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #10

I don't know & I don't care Cirque du So-What Jan 2013 #12

Try cleaning up someone's estate. It's a huge pain. dkf Jan 2013 #17

For gods sake, it's in their insurance records! grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #30

Because people insure everything they own. dawg Jan 2013 #39

They overestimate, because they are dishonest, which is how grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #74

"hoard the foods???" n't a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #103

goods. There's plenty of gov't computing power to record insurance, real estate taxes, stock gains leveymg Jan 2013 #128

I disagree... You're simply penalizing savers... a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #130

We agree! Let's go back to the FDR taxes - 90 percent on $1 million or above. leveymg Jan 2013 #135

that's not even a half-arsed try at a redirect... a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #136

What do you know about half-arsed tries? ;-) leveymg Jan 2013 #141

No it isn't. All the financial stuff is who knows where. dkf Jan 2013 #40

Uh, no. Most people have not kept insurance valuations current pnwmom Jan 2013 #94

OMG. No one knows the value of their toys more than the hoarding class. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #120

That's what I immediately thought of, too. n/t pnwmom Jan 2013 #92

It's not supporting the rich. It's supporting savers versus spenders. dawg Jan 2013 #41

"I don't know & I don't care" oldhippie Jan 2013 #51

I'll take punchlines for $800, Alex Fla_Democrat Jan 2013 #117

"I don't know and I don't care" naaman fletcher Jan 2013 #69

Try documenting and valuing everything you own. dkf Jan 2013 #15

and bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #21

It would be an administrative nightmare. dawg Jan 2013 #26

the wealthy have tons on money locked up in paintings ... but imagine the industry such a law will srican69 Jan 2013 #32

You got one word wrong there. dawg Jan 2013 #34

While I'm Not Going to Disagree With You But, How Would That Work? dballance Jan 2013 #2

every time wealth tax proposed here, every time cite 5th Amendment... AngryAmish Jan 2013 #3

How about a 10 million threshold or a 100 million .. srican69 Jan 2013 #14

There's really no reason to not plan for inheritance taxes TexasBushwhacker Jan 2013 #149

is this on bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #4

In some instances dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #5

Exactly. Savers would suffer. Spenders would be untouched. mainer Jan 2013 #7

intention is not punish savers .. but to get those who have gotten really wealthy to do their bit srican69 Jan 2013 #13

This is what the estate tax is for. dawg Jan 2013 #42

The bar needs to be over a million spinbaby Jan 2013 #16

agreed ... the number is besides the main point srican69 Jan 2013 #19

The number is NOT besides the main point mainer Jan 2013 #24

small business owner is Republicanese for corporation CE5 Jan 2013 #50

It's not a buzzword -- small businesses really do exist starroute Jan 2013 #54

I'm a small business owner mainer Jan 2013 #56

My husband is self-employed. Can't get a smaller business than that. (And yes, it is a business.) GreenPartyVoter Jan 2013 #127

Sure make the bar 50 million and adjust for inflation grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #35

Would also tax dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #23

Like everything else is. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #36

like you pay income tax on full income ( after fica tax has been paid)? ... then Yes srican69 Jan 2013 #37

Would also probably be unconstitutional without an Amendment. dairydog91 Jan 2013 #46

You mean like my spending money from my wages is taxed twice? Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #105

That might depend on what you buy. dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #106

Like what? Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #108

so sad bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #6

The US is a third world country. Just look at our elections, healthcare, poverty. Scuba Jan 2013 #43

Third world country Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #125

Perhaps you need to visit southern Mississippi or rural Wisconsin... Scuba Jan 2013 #126

I used to travel alot Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #129

You don't get it. "No running water, no sewage systems" etc is true for lots of Americans. Scuba Jan 2013 #131

Kinda like the Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #132

If they stopped with the false equivalencies, they wouldn't have much to work with... a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #138

Something like what you said ... in the early years it was not as much of a problem, but RKP5637 Jan 2013 #8

That's what inheritance taxes were/are for, and that's why it needs to be tightened Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #11

I don't worry about income disparity ... holdencaufield Jan 2013 #18

very funny ... srican69 Jan 2013 #20

The word "obtuse" comes to mind. Wednesdays Jan 2013 #57

Tax people on the increase in their wealth. dawg Jan 2013 #22

At 65, with an expected lifespan of 85, assets of a million... mainer Jan 2013 #25

Does Costco sell caviar? holdencaufield Jan 2013 #27

And that's if you want to leave *nothing* for your children. dawg Jan 2013 #28

I have elderly relatives who have a "net worth" of more than half a million, because of their house, Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #31

Did you ever look at the net worth of members of Congress and the Senate? Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #29

DING DING DING ..... That is the final word on this thread .. srican69 Jan 2013 #33

Tax on over50 mil in assets would simply be a claw back on stolen money, IMHO grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #38

If someone dies with a $50 million dollar estate, we'll get a pretty big chunk of that. dawg Jan 2013 #44

I thought the "death tax" was nullified during Shrub's reign Wednesdays Jan 2013 #59

Only for one year. dawg Jan 2013 #62

We should 40 million as payback to the society that generated the wealth, I believe. grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #73

I think 50% over $5 million would be about right. dawg Jan 2013 #82

So Nancy Pelosi is a thief? Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #75

Yep, all those huge piles of idle money need to be fragmented and put back in circulation. bemildred Jan 2013 #45

Several Facts, Sir, Before This Is Spun Completely Up Its Fundament... The Magistrate Jan 2013 #47

amen.. srican69 Jan 2013 #48

In a nation in which Walmart is the largest employer ANY accumulated wealth is disproportionate Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #52

how bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #66

You Might As Well Argue From Superlative Athletes, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2013 #70

hm... bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #79

So You Concede You Cannot Defend the Actual Distribution of Wealth, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2013 #81

ok bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #83

You Are No Better At Expressing An Opponent's Points Than At Anything Else, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2013 #86

Oh, Well Done Sir! bemildred Jan 2013 #159

I agree. Tax wealth in whatever way we can. Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #49

Wouldn't that encourage accelerated production NoOneMan Jan 2013 #53

This thread sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #63

do you mean that bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #68

No sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #88

"There is no direct correlation between taxation and production" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #72

Who said anything sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #90

So, yes, you think the wealthy will not use their capital to adjust to this continuous wealth tax? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #95

No sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #98

By increasing the velocity of capital in the system NoOneMan Jan 2013 #99

I really don't sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #111

"but if it did that would be fine with me" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #112

You are suggesting sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #114

"if we make them poorer they will actually have fewer resources with which to kill us all" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #116

We already possess sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #121

Now thats a romantic cultural narrative NoOneMan Jan 2013 #124

Is it your position sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #134

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #139

I posit that we need to scale back our consumption and growth or we will die NoOneMan Jan 2013 #144

Its my position that if we knew better, NoOneMan Jan 2013 #143

I am very sympathetic sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #150

And I am to yours NoOneMan Jan 2013 #154

The world sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #156

It doesn't need you to advocate for it NoOneMan Jan 2013 #157

Sad but true. AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #152

Until I see real world proof... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #155

All biological activity sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #158

The ecosystem is a necessary system for life NoOneMan Jan 2013 #160

You are correct sulphurdunn Jan 2013 #164

"climate change may be averted" NoOneMan Jan 2013 #165

I definitely support this in theory, but the devil is in the enforcement details Wednesdays Jan 2013 #55

That would destroy many urban fringe farmers and small businesses. Xithras Jan 2013 #58

In practice this is probably not true Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #91

How many farmers do you know? mainer Jan 2013 #163

We should remind them that Lenin seized the White Russians' assets Taverner Jan 2013 #60

That's why it's been drummed into all of us for 130 years Wednesdays Jan 2013 #65

I think you hit on the winning argument: "Not as bad as the bolshevik revolution". (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #84

This will go a long way towards getting our deficit under control. Undaunted Jan 2013 #61

A Sales Tax with Exemptions for Food, Healthcare, Education, Clothing, and Housing Would Be Better Yavin4 Jan 2013 #64

The state I grew up in had sales tax exemptions for food and medicine Wednesdays Jan 2013 #67

exemptions up to a certain amount perhaps Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #89

Tax all money the same: income, dividends and capital gains. nt abelenkpe Jan 2013 #71

Real estate? Farmland? These are all forms of wealth mainer Jan 2013 #76

Hence the adsurdity of the suggestion dipsydoodle Jan 2013 #107

Farmers are already payiing tax on their land, tractors, Downwinder Jan 2013 #146

I suspect a "wealth tax" would be ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #77

one bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #78

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #80

hm... bigapple1963 Jan 2013 #85

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #87

Every business owner faces the same risks, but only the investor class enjoys low taxes on the profi Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #93

The vast majority of people hit by a wealth tax would be retirees, who are already pnwmom Jan 2013 #96

This already exists Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #97

"why should an American citizen..." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #100

Which is why I think the US should do what France has done. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2013 #102

Thatd work for me! NoOneMan Jan 2013 #104

Totally agree... Deep13 Jan 2013 #101

Hear! Hear! indepat Jan 2013 #109

Please define "wealthy" mainer Jan 2013 #110

If you have assets worth 1 million you are WEALTHY Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #115

And the retiree whose wealth is all tied up in his home... mainer Jan 2013 #118

He can sell his million dollar home and buy an entire street in most of the country. Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #147

I don't know where you live in the country mainer Jan 2013 #162

Psssssssst Fla_Democrat Jan 2013 #133

I'll leave you to do the math as far as how many centuries it would take Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #148

I'm a socialist - of course we should tax wealth OutNow Jan 2013 #113

+1 Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #119

Wealth Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #122

well, yeah. What you said. mainer Jan 2013 #123

It's an old trick, from a 165 year old playbook... n/t a geek named Bob Jan 2013 #140

Don't be confused - you are not rich OutNow Jan 2013 #142

Funny Lurker Deluxe Jan 2013 #145

Ah, but some people here do consider him rich mainer Jan 2013 #161

Terrible Idea - Will Never Happen FreeJoe Jan 2013 #137

yes yes yes limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #151

Tax the rich? No way Jose. tama Jan 2013 #153