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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
79. This is the result of the Experience of the American Revolution
Mon Jan 21, 2013, 03:47 AM
Jan 2013

When Von Steuben entered in Service of George Washington he wrote the "Blue Book" which was how the US Army units were to be organized to fight. As a general rule, in armies of the time period, books like the "Blue Book" were classified Top Secret if not higher. The reason for this is given the nature of the weapons, while the main weapons that caused most injuries were cannon and musket fire, the Bayonet was still viewed as the weapon that won battles, The Bayonet would retain that position till the invention of the Rifle Musket (and the Minie ball) in 1848 (and that was due to the adoption of the Percussion firing system, invented in 1806, adopted by the British Military in 1830, US Army in 1842).

The key to a bayonet charge was to hit the other side in flank of a unit. Units would fall back on their centers, thus if you hit two units in each other flanks both would retreat toward their own centers and open a gap between the unit, that the attacking units could exploit. Thus in defense, units lined up in such a way as to appear to be one continuous line. Thus any charge would not know where two units meet and thus the attacking unit did not know if it was attacking one unit at its center, which would force the unit backward but united, or between two units, so that the flanks would retreat toward each unit's center.

Thus army units were given four flags, two at the center and one on each flank. The flanks of each unit would be covered by two flags, one from each unit. Thus when the enemy looked at your line, all they saw was a serious of two flags with the men behind the flags (one flag from each unit on that unit's flank, and then two in the center that the men were taught to rally around.

What flag went where was important, thus classified. The men of the unit were taught the importance of each flag, but only as far as needed (i.e. the unit's flag was the one the men were taught to rally around, the other three flags were known but ignored by most of the men as unimportant).

Given the above, in all armies the equivalent of the "Blue Book" was classified as to be known only to regimental commanders and to be destroyed if the unit was over run, This was the classification Von Steuben wanted his "Blue Book" to be given by George Washington. George Washington decided instead to publish it, so that militia commanders could buy copies and form they militia units along the same line.

This "Tradition" was known to the authors of the Constitution AND the First Congress which wrote the Bill of Rights. It was also known that Militia could have weapons other then what the US Army had, but it was preferred that the Militia have the same weapon due to the ease that makes in re-suppling the army in the field. In fact the US Army during the Revolution switched from .75 caliber Brown Bess muskets, Colonial American had used when the British was the main source of Weapons used by American forces, to .69 caliber muskets when France became the main source of US weapons. Both were still in use when Congress passed the 1792 and the 1795 Militia act . In Both acts Congress ruled every "free male" was in the Militia and had to have a .69 caliber musket (And exception was made for Rifleman, but Rifle units had to be supported by at least two musket equipped regular infantry units, another rule issued by George Washington based on experience during the Revolution).

Now, in the recent opinions of the Supreme Court the above was ignored by both the majority and the dissent. One reason was none of the above were the result of any LEGAL decisions by the Courts. In my opinion both Sides were uncomfortable with the idea that the understanding of how the Militia was to be formed and organized and gone through a radical rewrite during the Revolution and that George Washington's handling of the "Blue Book" was part of that change.

On top of the above change, the Court also did not want to accept that how the Militia was organized north and south of the Mason Dixon line were radically different for over 15o years by the time of the Revolution. In the North, the Militia was as good as any regular Army unit and that had been the tradition since the 1600s, thus military function was its most important function (Strengthen by the fact the French were in Canada till 1763).

In the South the Militia's main job was NOT to perform military operations but its related function as the "Sheriff;s Patrol". The main function of the Sheriff's Patrol was to prevent slave revolts by spending a night a month patrolling an assigned area (often a road intersection), with free range to due as they saw fit to any non-white (This included killing any non-white). Thus when you read about the "Useless Militia" during the Revolution it is always in reference to the Southern Militia for when you compare it to the Northern Militia it was "useless".

In many ways the Constitutional Convention wanted to expand Northern Militia standards to the South, but the South resisted the move, so instead it was agreed to leave the First Congress be given the option on how the militia was to be formed. The First Congress did the same, wrote how the militia was to be formed, but then told the states to do so. This was the Militia Act of 1792. The Militia Act of 1792 was the law till 1903 when the present Federal Act came into play. The present act divided the Militia into two groups, the members of the National Guard and the "Reserve Militia". All males between the ages of 18 and 45 are in one or the other. The reason for this was to provide legal cover for the National Guard (Some question if the National Guard was constitutional before 1903). The rest of the Militia was to be organized as and when needed as per Hamilton in the Federalist papers.

On the other hand, during the ratification of the US Constitution, the opposition to the US Constitution made a big deal about the centralization of the Militia with the Federal Government. This was a BIG deal in Pennsylvania, the last colony to organize its militia, Pennsylvania only did it in 1758. This was AFTER four year of fighting on the frontier after Braddock's defeat in 1754. During that four year period, the Pennsylvanian Frontier was undefended. The Quakers that controlled the PA General Assembly refused to form up the Militia. To address this problem Ben Franklin told the people on the frontier to form their own Militia units. Thus when opponents to the US Constitution brought up the Militia clause, it made a big effect in Pennsylvania. In many ways the Second amendment was adopted to address the fear of what would happen if the Federal Government did NOT form up the Militia. i.e. if the Federal Government did what it in 1903, those parts of the Militia NOT in the National Guard, can be formed as the State sees fit, or if the state does NOT form up the Militia , the people themselves can.

On the other hand, the authors of the Second Amendment also did NOT want the Second Amendment to interfere with how the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT would form up the Militia. Thus the wording of the Second, to maintain maximum right of the Federal Government to form up the Militia but permit the states and the people to form up the Militia but only if the Federal Government does not.

The above would indicate that the Reserve Militia could be restricted to a certain type of weapon, but it would have to be compatible with what is used by the Regular US Army. i.e the M16. On the other hand an argument can be made for another position, see the following:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=370038

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

A very logical argument to me. n/t JimDandy Jan 2013 #1
Yeah, but we already have well regulated militia brush Jan 2013 #42
Forwarded to the White House. Not sure if anyone else is aware of this. Good find. ToxMarz Jan 2013 #2
Yes. No one at the White House has a copy of the constitution. harmonicon Jan 2013 #12
Dammit..... A HERETIC I AM Jan 2013 #19
Well.... there was National Treasure and Nicholas Cage did LiberalFighter Jan 2013 #75
Maybe they could try lemon juice on a pdf? Wednesdays Jan 2013 #80
You just cracked the entire case wide open. JaneyVee Jan 2013 #3
"You just cracked the entire case wide open." AAO Jan 2013 #8
Unfortunately it is NOT common knowledge. obxhead Jan 2013 #47
True, I meant to those of us who are sane. Meaning, not the rightwing. JaneyVee Jan 2013 #58
I suspect there are people Jenoch Jan 2013 #64
It is sad, if those who want to discuss the 2nd amend would not be aware of the Militia clauses. jmg257 Jan 2013 #85
And what if they do? Spryguy Jan 2013 #59
Not really. The National Guard has to be effective in their jmg257 Jan 2013 #4
One could argue that . . . MrModerate Jan 2013 #23
True...The constitution identifies the existing Militias as they were...State jmg257 Jan 2013 #35
The National Guard is not "the Militia" jmowreader Jan 2013 #28
The Wolverines are NOT the Constitutional Militia. The Militias were State entities jmg257 Jan 2013 #39
From Merriam-Webster Dictionary pandr32 Jan 2013 #51
Does wikipedia now have the same status as federal law? DeltaLitProf Jan 2013 #81
As has been noted before . . . another_liberal Jan 2013 #5
The S.Ct. has already ruled, I believe, that the Congress can limit the KINDS of guns... Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #6
Interesting. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #7
You do know an AK-47 is Bay Boy Jan 2013 #9
Facepalm.. Nt Heimer Jan 2013 #50
+1 SunSeeker Jan 2013 #55
I assume you are trying to tell me something... Bay Boy Jan 2013 #89
In the DC V. HELLER ruling... derby378 Jan 2013 #10
I wonder if they could constitutionally seize weapons Nevernose Jan 2013 #13
I think the Fifth Amendment limits eminent domain to land or real estate for "public use" derby378 Jan 2013 #15
Weapons are seized from criminals . . . another_liberal Jan 2013 #26
Property is seized if used in the act of a crime. It's not specific or limited to weapons. RB TexLa Jan 2013 #30
Granted that. another_liberal Jan 2013 #34
It would be a rare legal act to make something illegal and then remove the items that were RB TexLa Jan 2013 #38
LSD was legal for decades . . . another_liberal Jan 2013 #43
They didn't do it with personal possession of alcohol in the 20's. I said it would be rare. RB TexLa Jan 2013 #52
During Prohibition . . . another_liberal Jan 2013 #60
Like I said rare but not impossible. RB TexLa Jan 2013 #63
Because... ReRe Jan 2013 #41
I guess that's true . . . another_liberal Jan 2013 #46
Duh.... ReRe Jan 2013 #66
From what I recall in some law classes from way back... 2naSalit Jan 2013 #72
Thank you! ReRe Jan 2013 #73
Thanks, glad you liked that. 2naSalit Jan 2013 #74
I have to correct myself on something... ReRe Jan 2013 #76
Good question though 2naSalit Jan 2013 #77
Night-Night... ReRe Jan 2013 #78
+1 uponit7771 Jan 2013 #16
Depends on how many opinions from courts are out there Cleita Jan 2013 #11
Dingdingding! We have a winner! shenmue Jan 2013 #14
Are current Armed Forces Constitutionally different from the "Militia" you reference therein? yodermon Jan 2013 #17
Very much different jmowreader Jan 2013 #29
It seems to me that "keeping arms" is not the same as "owning arms" and since the Jumping John Jan 2013 #18
Tht's part of the problem/evolution of the amendment. jmg257 Jan 2013 #27
Yes but it was the states (colonies) that allowed the ownership of arms and Jumping John Jan 2013 #44
Neither the States or the feds could deny the people arms for Militia service. jmg257 Jan 2013 #53
But the states could choose to exclude some people from the militia. I am sure British Jumping John Jan 2013 #67
Colonial militia service was voluntary. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #68
No it wasn't voluntary. Jumping John Jan 2013 #70
I was referring to the revolution. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #71
We are talking about after the Constitution was written; its affects on the Militias. jmg257 Jan 2013 #82
Militias were also abandoned as military tactics changed. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #45
Agreed. Even Washington knew the militia sucked. But that was the whole jmg257 Jan 2013 #56
Bookmarking.... Great post! nt Firebrand Gary Jan 2013 #20
As an related aside, Shankapotomus Jan 2013 #21
No, it can't. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #40
k/r limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #22
Keep reading. bluerum Jan 2013 #24
The truly interesting sentence is this... Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2013 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #31
Not sure how it is intimately related to the militias, other then the Militias were to reduce jmg257 Jan 2013 #84
It's the sunset clause that's so interesting Benton D Struckcheon Jan 2013 #86
Both posts are very informative, but his suggestions are not likely practical. Besides, jmg257 Jan 2013 #87
Before part you quote, says: elleng Jan 2013 #32
You might be interested in the following... PoliticAverse Jan 2013 #33
It means that Congress can do those things if it called the militia up for Federal service. NutmegYankee Jan 2013 #36
What is it that shall not be infringed? The Blue Flower Jan 2013 #37
Here try it this way... You'll feel better... jmg257 Jan 2013 #62
They all want to be disiplined... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #48
Although the OP H2O Man Jan 2013 #49
yes, and even Scalia has said as much BainsBane Jan 2013 #54
Nothing to add at this point. Heimer Jan 2013 #57
Thoughtful, yes, but also intheflow Jan 2013 #88
The 2nd Amendment was there to prevent the need for a standing army. But we got one anyway. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #61
Recommended and Kicking. Ruby the Liberal Jan 2013 #65
You *DO* realize who "the people" are, right? What part of "the right of the *people*" Ghost in the Machine Jan 2013 #69
A few things...foremost the 2nd amendment did not give us anything... jmg257 Jan 2013 #83
This is the result of the Experience of the American Revolution happyslug Jan 2013 #79
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