General Discussion

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)

35. What an odd question.

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:51 PM

Jan 2013

If a President or whoever is participating in prayer, they aren't writing legislation at that moment, they are praying.

Religion is a basis for legislation whenever someone proposes a law that is bluntly based on some religion's scriptural direction. For example, banning gay marriage because its "an abomination to God" or some BS like that.

Of course there are moral ideas that overlap secular moralism and religious moralism, like murder and theft for example. But we don't outlaw murder and theft simple because the Bible says its wrong. There are many, secular, nonreligious premises for the conclusion that murder and theft are bad for society.

So I don't care if my President or any citizen of this country publically celebrates their religion as long as they aren't trying to implement laws that are specifically born from that religion's teachings with no obvious secular overlap.

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NOTICE: I do not pray! [View all] MineralMan Jan 2013 OP

I deny the existence of your agenda. nt onehandle Jan 2013 #1

Such is your right. MineralMan Jan 2013 #2

You've convinced me. onehandle Jan 2013 #8

You are your dog's loyal servant. MineralMan Jan 2013 #42

In infinite gratitude to Mother Nature tama Jan 2013 #167

reminds me of the cat and dog joke... thesquanderer Jan 2013 #137

well, maybe you should quinnox Jan 2013 #3

I did, when I was a child. MineralMan Jan 2013 #5

I'll pray for you... JoeBlowToo Jan 2013 #37

And I will think for you... MineralMan Jan 2013 #44

It's comforting to know that I am in your thoughts... JoeBlowToo Jan 2013 #165

Yes, it's so much better to be ignored when you're going through intheflow Jan 2013 #169

As an atheist, I object to our elected leaders ceding responsibility to god. sadbear Jan 2013 #4

'God' is simply another word for 'conscience'. randome Jan 2013 #7

Not even remotely FreeState Jan 2013 #23

For the majority of 'believers', I think what I stated is true. randome Jan 2013 #58

It's so confusing with all these gods being bandied about. sadbear Jan 2013 #60

You pretend they're all one....that has Multiple Personality Disorder. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #70

Who is the Holy Ghost the ghost of???? Someone holy? A particularly nice white bird? Walk away Jan 2013 #112

He's the one most ignored despite his awesome mission. gtar100 Jan 2013 #120

He was interviewed by someone from Fox News so...he was misquoted. randome Jan 2013 #126

It is the female of the family Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #148

Socrates tama Jan 2013 #168

'God' is simply another word for 'conscience'. amuse bouche Jan 2013 #73

Pretty close to correct vlyons Jan 2013 #98

I have no doubt many people believe that Major Nikon Jan 2013 #122

I haven't actually seen any of them do that, actually. MineralMan Jan 2013 #9

Just my interpretation of all prayer. sadbear Jan 2013 #14

Blessings are what causes nice things. Curses do the opposite. MineralMan Jan 2013 #29

"Take the wheel, Jesus," is not the vibe I get from the President. nt msanthrope Jan 2013 #12

But he obviously feels the pressure to create that appearance, doesn't he? sadbear Jan 2013 #16

I do not see the obviousness you claim. Perhaps he genuinely likes going to services. msanthrope Jan 2013 #36

Not really. He appears to be a man MineralMan Jan 2013 #39

He does. But that doesn't make HIM the problem. Thank you for your concern. kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #78

And where did I say he was? sadbear Jan 2013 #83

Some people do find solace in their beliefs. My Mom was one of them. gateley Jan 2013 #136

Too bad. This is a religious country. Get over it. phleshdef Jan 2013 #18

How do you know it's not a basis for legislation? sadbear Jan 2013 #20

What an odd question. phleshdef Jan 2013 #35

Religion is used as a basis for legislation. Chef Eric Jan 2013 #119

Thats not "religion being used as a basis" for legislation. phleshdef Jan 2013 #121

The legislation is based on religion. Chef Eric Jan 2013 #149

We are talking about 2 entirely different things. phleshdef Jan 2013 #158

Just like this is a slave-owning country. Get over it. jeff47 Jan 2013 #123

Thats a disgusting insult to the people that had to endure slavery on your part. phleshdef Jan 2013 #124

That's only because you're trying really, really hard to protect your lame argument. jeff47 Jan 2013 #128

I don't have to protect it. Its a valid argument and one you are completely unable to rebuttal... phleshdef Jan 2013 #133

Again, you just don't like the implications of your argument jeff47 Jan 2013 #143

I LOVE the implications of my argument, and you are clueless on separation of church and state phleshdef Jan 2013 #164

They don't. In any case, any God/ess worth their salt places responsibility squarely on human beings Hekate Jan 2013 #32

+1 RedCappedBandit Jan 2013 #129

Thanks for that one. sadbear Jan 2013 #132

I mind if it 's part of a national public ceremony. I don't care that you don't mind. HERVEPA Jan 2013 #6

And I don't care that you do mind. Isn't America wonderful that way? The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2013 #10

I find it boring but otherwise I can't work up any anger over it lunatica Jan 2013 #15

You must be constantly troubled, then. It seems to be part of MineralMan Jan 2013 #17

Because something exists and doesn't bother most people doesn't make it right. HERVEPA Jan 2013 #41

And yet, Martin Luther King, Jr. was a minister. He was a believer. MineralMan Jan 2013 #48

Which is totally non-responsive to my point. HERVEPA Jan 2013 #69

It's not wrong, actually. MineralMan Jan 2013 #76

+1000000 kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #89

Thanks! MineralMan Jan 2013 #93

Well said guardian Jan 2013 #110

That is yout r opion, not a fact. HERVEPA Jan 2013 #115

Well said! Mad_Dem_X Jan 2013 #127

Unfortunately, no jeff47 Jan 2013 #130

Rick Warren wanted Gays killed , those praying yesterday didn't want atheists killed JI7 Jan 2013 #151

So if Warren only wanted them to continue to be second-class citizens, that would be OK? (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #157

not ok, but not as bad as wanting them killed, but those praying didn't call for atheists to be 2nd JI7 Jan 2013 #159

Actually, they did. jeff47 Jan 2013 #161

so your saying Chuck Schumer was treated as 2nd class citizen at the inauguration because he is JI7 Jan 2013 #163

That will change soon! BobbyBoring Jan 2013 #138

Why shouldn't national public figures have the freedom to celebrate their religion as much as... phleshdef Jan 2013 #40

It doesn't. But haters gotta hate. kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #96

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's" is what this atheist says. nt msanthrope Jan 2013 #11

I think Cesar died some time ago. MineralMan Jan 2013 #34

What a Joker you are. nt (wink) msanthrope Jan 2013 #45

And I'll bet he still looks marvelous. marginlized Jan 2013 #61

No doubt! MineralMan Jan 2013 #62

Fine. Tax the wealthier churches. But prayer is free. Hekate Jan 2013 #38

I think you missed my point. I don't care what the President chooses as a necessary ritual. msanthrope Jan 2013 #50

The video of Michelle Obama rolling her eyes at something said to her in a social setting is popular Fumesucker Jan 2013 #13

Oh, my eyes have been whirling around like slot machine symbols MineralMan Jan 2013 #21

I have no face and I must roll my eyes Fumesucker Jan 2013 #31

Well, there's that. Always conveniently ignored for 2000 years. But Matthew 6:6 is not kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #91

Are you saying you are a better person than Michelle Obama? Fumesucker Jan 2013 #106

I'm more of an agnostic...I pray, but don't know to whom fadedrose Jan 2013 #19

Life can be a pretty raw deal if death is the reward. I think many would RKP5637 Jan 2013 #92

That's my favorite theory Viva_La_Revolution Jan 2013 #170

Yep!!! The collective energy concept is quite interesting. Also ... I wish the RKP5637 Jan 2013 #171

I think the alien had some college.... fadedrose Jan 2013 #172

Yep, he's got some time, the final exam isn't 'till the end of the semester. n/t RKP5637 Jan 2013 #173

Likewise. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2013 #22

Solipsicity! HereSince1628 Jan 2013 #24

Spam deleted by Kali (MIR Team) soft_eyes Jan 2013 #25

Wow, you're still around? sadbear Jan 2013 #28

Pizza delivery! Rex Jan 2013 #66

U r ded. nt onehandle Jan 2013 #47

Who is George? fadedrose Jan 2013 #49

Where is George? MineralMan Jan 2013 #51

Beats me. I can't figure out why people want to be thrown out fadedrose Jan 2013 #54

I know. MineralMan Jan 2013 #56

That is pretty much it... Tikki Jan 2013 #26

praying is one of the most useless activities humans do... snooper2 Jan 2013 #27

Yet even great men and women do it. ProSense Jan 2013 #52

Just because they do it doesn't make it useful HERVEPA Jan 2013 #71

See, that's an opinion. ProSense Jan 2013 #74

And great men and women don't do it, also... Tikki Jan 2013 #72

True, but that wasn't the point. ProSense Jan 2013 #80

Calling something useless is not necessarily condemning them. Tikki Jan 2013 #87

It is IMO a catharsis for many ... n/t RKP5637 Jan 2013 #97

Oh, c'mon, even an atheist like you can MadHound Jan 2013 #30

a true classic quinnox Jan 2013 #33

Why do you think I don't have parachute pants? MineralMan Jan 2013 #53

Oh, it wouldn't surprise me at all, MadHound Jan 2013 #59

I have not seen them for some time, but I could lay hands on them MineralMan Jan 2013 #67

Hey, you never know, the leisure suit and big lapels could be making a comeback, MadHound Jan 2013 #68

And I still have my Nehru jacket. MineralMan Jan 2013 #79

I have no belief in an afterlife. randome Jan 2013 #43

Evidently, ProSense Jan 2013 #46

Tolerance? That's so...archaic. MineralMan Jan 2013 #55

NOTICE: I do not care! Rex Jan 2013 #57

On the court thing, some people still swear oaths that way. MineralMan Jan 2013 #64

I will have to remember that line, if ever needed. Rex Jan 2013 #65

It depends on the state. jeff47 Jan 2013 #125

Mine was common law and didn't work out at all. Rex Jan 2013 #134

You don't have to. Just say you'll affirm your oath MineralMan Jan 2013 #140

Yeah, tried that. Got a bible. jeff47 Jan 2013 #144

Oh, I love situations like that. I insist on my rights. MineralMan Jan 2013 #146

2001 (nt) jeff47 Jan 2013 #155

I've testified in court on a few occasions and there was never a bible in sight. kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #101

I was wondering if it was kept about for traditional purposes. Rex Jan 2013 #111

Of all things, this thread is trending on DU's Home page. MineralMan Jan 2013 #63

Doesn't the Christian Bible command its followers... bvar22 Jan 2013 #75

It does, in Matthew 6. However, it also MineralMan Jan 2013 #81

I wouldn't place shrimp on the same level FreeState Jan 2013 #90

Ah, nitpicking, I see. MineralMan Jan 2013 #99

No. That isn't "nitpicking". bvar22 Jan 2013 #174

Matthew 6 is straight from the lips of Jesus himself. sadbear Jan 2013 #95

Well, it is attributed to Jesus, certainly. MineralMan Jan 2013 #107

Is there a Christian out there who believes Jesus didn't say this? sadbear Jan 2013 #116

Yes, indeed, everything attributed to Jesus MineralMan Jan 2013 #141

Were you contemptuous of Kucinich for ProSense Jan 2013 #88

Now, now. There's no need to be calling people to account MineralMan Jan 2013 #108

Seems like Martin Luther King Jr. did some serious preaching out in public onenote Jan 2013 #152

I pray. hrmjustin Jan 2013 #77

If it helps you, then I encourage you to MineralMan Jan 2013 #82

i beg god for shit datasuspect Jan 2013 #84

Constipated, eh? MineralMan Jan 2013 #85

MM, I don't mind either. "Whatever gets you to the light. . ." DinahMoeHum Jan 2013 #86

I prefer the expression, "Whatever blows your dress up..." MineralMan Jan 2013 #103

I don't mind that you don't pray. nt. NCTraveler Jan 2013 #94

Thanks. We should get along famously, then. nt MineralMan Jan 2013 #100

Thank you wryter2000 Jan 2013 #102

WGAS! corneliamcgillicutty Jan 2013 #104

Who, indeed? MineralMan Jan 2013 #114

That's okay. This country was founded on Freedom of Religion. You're in the clear. I do wonder how judesedit Jan 2013 #105

Agnosticism is only one that makes sense. ErikJ Jan 2013 #113

It's easy to be an atheist. You could try it, and you'll see. MineralMan Jan 2013 #117

Actually, all of the primates have all those things, too. MineralMan Jan 2013 #145

I do pray and don't care that you don't. It is sort of like I am straight and am perfectly happy appleannie1 Jan 2013 #109

Thanks. That makes things so much easier, MineralMan Jan 2013 #118

whatevs limpyhobbler Jan 2013 #131

Yeah, fer shure. MineralMan Jan 2013 #147

It's mystifying loyalsister Jan 2013 #135

You're shocked that you don't pray!? Silent3 Jan 2013 #139

I don't mind that people pray either. Kalidurga Jan 2013 #142

I suppose I qualify as an agnostic War Horse Jan 2013 #150

I don't believe in a conventional Biblical God libodem Jan 2013 #153

Each person has his or her own way of thinking. MineralMan Jan 2013 #154

Yes libodem Jan 2013 #160

I don't usually either unless I'm in a pinch. . . . BigDemVoter Jan 2013 #156

I don't mine either madokie Jan 2013 #162

I was born this way Laochtine Jan 2013 #166