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In reply to the discussion: I agree with Anonymous about this... Do you? [View all]LiberalLovinLug
(14,755 posts)71. Just a few counterpoints to some of yours
"Can I prove people died? Nope. Did people die? Yep. Why? Because of the wide volume of information Manning leaked."
Brilliant deduction Watson! Sounds like. Do people die smoking Marijuana? Yep. Why? Because of the sheer volume of marijuana smoked. Here's a quote for you to chew on:
Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is this awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.
Robert Gates, Unites States Secretary of Defense
"Except the army had already investigated the incident and released a public report before Manning leaked anything."
Yes a report on the killing of the Reuters journalists and the wounding of the two children. That report, with no video because the army refused to hand it over to Reuters, was a whitewash. None of the Apache soldiers were ever charged. It also ignored all the other casualties, only brought to light from this release.
"That's because 9/11 happend due to lack of intelligence sharing."
I see you are not immune to whacky conspiracy theories.
So it had nothing to do with the Bush administrations lack of interest in pursuing warnings from Richard Clarke, the AGs admonishment of FBI director Pickard to stop talking about Bin Laden and some "supposed threat", the ignoring of the CIA in the August 6th report "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US..." that Condi Rice at first denied ever seeing.
"Except that wasn't the choice at hand. And if the problem was just the collateral murder video, why leak Castro's favorite ice cream? Why not only leak what you felt was the illegal act?"
And when, per say, do you think Manning had the time to comb through the mounds of information to pick out, in his subjective view, the parts that were criminal, or even ethically or morally wrong? That was what Wikileaks was for. They had the wherewithall and time and staff to take it to the next stage. Besides which, does knowing Castro's favorite ice cream negate any other hard information or something? I don't get your argument.
"It also suffers from Manning not actually leaking anything that reveals "bad" activity."
Seriously? I guess it depends on your definition of "bad". Revelations of coverups from relations with Tunisia's dictator, ignoring torture by Iraq security - a violation of the UN Convention Against Torture , to revealing lies about keeping tabs on civilian deaths in Iraq. Even things like the State Department's work on behalf of multinational textile corporations pressuring Haiti to NOT go through with a minimum wage increase. I mean of all the people that need a raise.... I call that "bad". There are many other examples of bad behaviour unearthed. Here's some: http://www.bradleymanning.org/learn-more/what-did-wikileaks-reveal
If Authoritarians like yourself are scared to death of these low-level leaks, I wonder what would happen to your head if some actual top secret leaks revealing more severe anti-constitutional, and criminal behavior was leaked?
Brilliant deduction Watson! Sounds like. Do people die smoking Marijuana? Yep. Why? Because of the sheer volume of marijuana smoked. Here's a quote for you to chew on:
Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is this awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.
Robert Gates, Unites States Secretary of Defense
"Except the army had already investigated the incident and released a public report before Manning leaked anything."
Yes a report on the killing of the Reuters journalists and the wounding of the two children. That report, with no video because the army refused to hand it over to Reuters, was a whitewash. None of the Apache soldiers were ever charged. It also ignored all the other casualties, only brought to light from this release.
"That's because 9/11 happend due to lack of intelligence sharing."
I see you are not immune to whacky conspiracy theories.
So it had nothing to do with the Bush administrations lack of interest in pursuing warnings from Richard Clarke, the AGs admonishment of FBI director Pickard to stop talking about Bin Laden and some "supposed threat", the ignoring of the CIA in the August 6th report "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US..." that Condi Rice at first denied ever seeing.
"Except that wasn't the choice at hand. And if the problem was just the collateral murder video, why leak Castro's favorite ice cream? Why not only leak what you felt was the illegal act?"
And when, per say, do you think Manning had the time to comb through the mounds of information to pick out, in his subjective view, the parts that were criminal, or even ethically or morally wrong? That was what Wikileaks was for. They had the wherewithall and time and staff to take it to the next stage. Besides which, does knowing Castro's favorite ice cream negate any other hard information or something? I don't get your argument.
"It also suffers from Manning not actually leaking anything that reveals "bad" activity."
Seriously? I guess it depends on your definition of "bad". Revelations of coverups from relations with Tunisia's dictator, ignoring torture by Iraq security - a violation of the UN Convention Against Torture , to revealing lies about keeping tabs on civilian deaths in Iraq. Even things like the State Department's work on behalf of multinational textile corporations pressuring Haiti to NOT go through with a minimum wage increase. I mean of all the people that need a raise.... I call that "bad". There are many other examples of bad behaviour unearthed. Here's some: http://www.bradleymanning.org/learn-more/what-did-wikileaks-reveal
If Authoritarians like yourself are scared to death of these low-level leaks, I wonder what would happen to your head if some actual top secret leaks revealing more severe anti-constitutional, and criminal behavior was leaked?
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You're having a lot of trouble wrapping your head around the fact that this incident was legal.
jeff47
Jan 2013
#73
Jeremy Hammond and possibly Barrett Brown. Swartz and Manning already having been mentioned.
Fire Walk With Me
Jan 2013
#39
Don't forget the guys who brought down the global economy not getting arrested, while
Squinch
Jan 2013
#3
Not to mention all of the people who lost their homes to foreclosure based on the....
OldDem2012
Jan 2013
#32
plus a gazillion. There is a story on the home page about church men hiding child rape
roguevalley
Jan 2013
#10
The system is broken, really broken. Neither party seems to want to fix it.
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
Jan 2013
#12
You're preaching to the choir, but pointing these things out or even speaking of them
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
Jan 2013
#69
Two for two. The link was not between internet activists and rapists. n/t
Egalitarian Thug
Jan 2013
#23
Batting 1.000. Both of my parents were psychologists and my girlfriend wrote on
Egalitarian Thug
Jan 2013
#28
What game are YOU playing and how have you managed to survive this long? nt.
OldDem2012
Jan 2013
#33
The tweet didn't make that link. Everybody but you understands that. n/t
Egalitarian Thug
Jan 2013
#40
A very dirty GOP world if we don't stop them asap. Thank you for everything you do for us, Anon
judesedit
Jan 2013
#41
When a dope smoker is getting a longer sentence than a drunk driver who kills - that's cray-cray!
VPStoltz
Jan 2013
#43
Absolutely. Thank God for Anonymous and friends. We'd really be screwed without them.
judesedit
Jan 2013
#70
Be careful Anonymous. They are trying to find you big-time I am sure. Thanks for all of us.
judesedit
Jan 2013
#72