General Discussion

Straw Man

(6,948 posts)

24. Please show me where ...

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:34 AM

Jan 2013

... I advocated taking up arms against the government. I did no such thing. My point about a warrior class was made to emphasize further divisions in our society and the alienation of the general public from the actual practice of wielding power. The citizen-soldier model, with compulsory national service, is a far healthier one than the current professional-soldier-Praetorian-Guard model, IMO. Your suggestion is the actual "straw man," a term with which you are obviously less than conversant.

In one breath you tell me that you would like to "get rid of most guns," and then you mock me for taking you at your word. I have no "murder machines." If you mean guns, you have just said you wanted to take them away. Why should I not believe you? This is not a straw man of my own making: it is your own professed desire.

I break no laws. I have committed no treason. Your hate-filled and hyperbolic rhetoric is a perfect case-in-point of the transference I was talking about.

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Highlight:

"This Is What a Gun Control March on Washington Looks Like" [View all] applegrove Jan 2013 OP

Great photos. Thanks for posting. n/t Tx4obama Jan 2013 #1

But not one here for us bandwidth limited DUers. longship Jan 2013 #2

Pic cherokeeprogressive Jan 2013 #3

Thanks much. Looks good. longship Jan 2013 #5

More: pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #4

It's cheap to reload on DU! longship Jan 2013 #6

Happy to help pinboy3niner Jan 2013 #7

Well, bless you back! longship Jan 2013 #8

I Heimer Jan 2013 #9

IT'S GROWING, JUST WATCH drynberg Jan 2013 #87

Another demonstration of the importance of the Bill of Rights and the civil liberties they protect. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #10

the right to life BainsBane Jan 2013 #13

Sure, but merely keeping and bearing arms is not the same as committing unlawful homicides. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #14

most of these people were law abiding BainsBane Jan 2013 #17

I don't see anyone in DU talking about absolute rights to keep and bear arms aikoaiko Jan 2013 #18

by disobedience do you mean treason? BainsBane Jan 2013 #22

Civil disobedience does not involve harming others aikoaiko Jan 2013 #35

So what were you referring to? BainsBane Jan 2013 #43

Civil disobedience legaleagle_45 Jan 2013 #50

Some may violate the law without harming anyone. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #75

for example? BainsBane Jan 2013 #90

not turn in a gun or magazine iiibbb Jan 2013 #114

how could that be disobedience? BainsBane Jan 2013 #115

In NY they just banned detachable magazines over 10 rounds iiibbb Jan 2013 #118

Correction: over SEVEN. Straw Man Jan 2013 #119

Yes... but you can still have a 10, and only load them to 7 (like that makes sense) iiibbb Jan 2013 #120

There is in california. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #142

You'll see me write about it. harmonicon Jan 2013 #130

So if a maniac runs down a bunch of people with a car... davidn3600 Jan 2013 #20

can't you get a new talking point BainsBane Jan 2013 #23

Dude that shit doesn't work anymore NBachers Jan 2013 #25

Don't forget the spoons and the pool noodles, david. If you're going to be taken seriously with Squinch Jan 2013 #31

And it's ever dumber for the op to claim all people who own guns are potential killers davidn3600 Jan 2013 #32

The OP doesn't say anything even remotely resembling that. Squinch Jan 2013 #34

"most of these people were law abiding before they killed someone" davidn3600 Jan 2013 #36

The OP did not say that. Squinch Jan 2013 #38

Actually, you are mistaken. Jenoch Jan 2013 #60

what is a "non-gun appliance"? BainsBane Jan 2013 #68

A bat, a knife, a fist a foot. You name it. Jenoch Jan 2013 #72

handguns are number 1 BainsBane Jan 2013 #74

So is that something to be proud of? WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #98

Such a question would not occur to me. Jenoch Jan 2013 #112

Actually I am not mistaken Squinch Jan 2013 #76

and Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #80

Honestly, aren't you embarassed to repeat that NRA nonsense? Is the purpose of a car to kill? Squinch Jan 2013 #82

and SunSeeker Jan 2013 #133

I suppose I'd bring up the Amish too... LanternWaste Jan 2013 #145

More people are beaten to death Jenoch Jan 2013 #111

yes, that's why your argument about gunowners being law abiding BainsBane Jan 2013 #70

Sorry, but do you know what guns are made for? harmonicon Jan 2013 #131

Tasty Critters legaleagle_45 Jan 2013 #139

Some, but not most. harmonicon Jan 2013 #140

Rifles and shotguns legaleagle_45 Jan 2013 #141

Almost all murderers have prior convictions and a police record for violence. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #55

most murders are committed with handguns BainsBane Jan 2013 #57

Actually even mass shooters prefer handguns Recursion Jan 2013 #59

It wasn't I who posted the Mother Jones article BainsBane Jan 2013 #64

Most mass murders are committed with handguns. N/T GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #61

really? With or without detachable magazines? BainsBane Jan 2013 #62

Pistols generally have detachable magazines Recursion Jan 2013 #66

so what were you talking about that needed banning? BainsBane Jan 2013 #67

Semi-automatics with detachable magazines. I never said it would be easy Recursion Jan 2013 #69

that answers the question we discussed the other night BainsBane Jan 2013 #73

Banning mags that extend past the end of the grip on a pistol might fly. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #143

With. The VT killer switched mags 17 times. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #94

the AWB BainsBane Jan 2013 #95

The more guns you include in the ban, the greater the opposition. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #99

firstly, it's not me BainsBane Jan 2013 #100

I see your what mean Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #101

the truth is BainsBane Jan 2013 #103

that is not what I have seen here Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #106

but they do object to any law that restricts BainsBane Jan 2013 #108

Sorry I must have lost you Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #127

they meaning gungeoneers BainsBane Jan 2013 #132

Cho, at Virginia Tech demonstrated the flaw in the 'reload' issue. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #144

the point is not that reloading isn't possible BainsBane Jan 2013 #146

That's not demonstrated in real life. AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #147

Owning slaves was once ruled by SCOTUS to be a "right" that NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #81

Why are these people asknig for more gun laws? Christopfer7 Jan 2013 #11

the AR-15 wasn't banned BainsBane Jan 2013 #12

Yep. It amazes me that people don't realize that guns can be carried from one state Chorophyll Jan 2013 #15

Well, that will make it better. Straw Man Jan 2013 #19

It has been the gun of choice for many mass murderers BainsBane Jan 2013 #21

Please show me where ... Straw Man Jan 2013 #24

what I want hypothetically is irrelevant BainsBane Jan 2013 #26

It is very relevant. Straw Man Jan 2013 #79

You are arguing against a position that doesn't exist BainsBane Jan 2013 #89

Calm myself down? Straw Man Jan 2013 #117

You continue to stray from the subject in bizarre ways BainsBane Jan 2013 #134

Nope. Fundamentally wrong. Straw Man Jan 2013 #138

Is it possible that I since have heard numerous times on MSNBC and CNN that an AR-15 is ... spin Jan 2013 #28

I suggest you read the newspaper BainsBane Jan 2013 #30

Go away and think about it for a while. Come back with an answer. nt. OldDem2012 Jan 2013 #16

that is why legal guns need to be removed from the street as do the Zimmerman's. graham4anything Jan 2013 #63

I would go farther. Spryguy Jan 2013 #83

Why don't you post that crap on iloveguns dot com? nt valerief Jan 2013 #116

At the same time gun shows had record attendance across our nation. ... spin Jan 2013 #27

Just think of how many assault weapons Jenoch Jan 2013 #71

Hard for me to believe that honest-to-god Liberal/Progressive/Democrats here on DU ... Scuba Jan 2013 #29

Some people don't swallow the whole platform... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #33

The argument that we shouldn't ban some weapons because it won't stop murder with all weapons ... Scuba Jan 2013 #41

The problem may be that you think the AR-15 is "high power" Recursion Jan 2013 #45

I didn't write "high power", I wrote "high fire-power".... Scuba Jan 2013 #49

I'd definitely be on board with something like that Recursion Jan 2013 #51

Wouldn't the manufacturers just design high-capacity built-in mags? Scuba Jan 2013 #53

That's still a much different world Recursion Jan 2013 #54

Good point. Thanks for your contribution to the dialogue. Scuba Jan 2013 #56

I can reload 10 rounds into an SKS in about 4 seconds SQUEE Jan 2013 #104

It's not focusing on the problem... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #48

Please see my post #49. Scuba Jan 2013 #52

Umm...I think you responded to the wrong post... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #58

Sorry, I should have written a bit more. Scuba Jan 2013 #65

It is written... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #85

Link to the "it is written" legislation? I keep hearing that it has not been written. Scuba Jan 2013 #86

Try Google... bobclark86 Jan 2013 #91

I went to the link you provided. Here's what's listed under "Text of Legislation" ... Scuba Jan 2013 #102

LOTS of people are "talking about seizing firearms already in circulation." bobclark86 Jan 2013 #109

I can google better than you can read .... Scuba Jan 2013 #113

Most of the pushback is against specific provisions we find pointless or counterproductive Recursion Jan 2013 #37

I don't hear anyone arguing that we should ban weapons due to cosmetic features ... Scuba Jan 2013 #42

That's because nobody seems to bother to read the bill Recursion Jan 2013 #44

Do you have language from the proposed 2013 ban? I've not seen that. Scuba Jan 2013 #46

Yes, it's online Recursion Jan 2013 #47

We don't have to accept every proposal hack89 Jan 2013 #39

the OP posted pictures of the march BainsBane Jan 2013 #93

Go read the post that I was responding to. hack89 Jan 2013 #96

I stand corrected BainsBane Jan 2013 #97

Liberalism is not on the "gun control" side. Decoy of Fenris Jan 2013 #40

liberalism as in the Tea Party? BainsBane Jan 2013 #77

Bullshit. Paladin Jan 2013 #78

That is because they aren't real Progressives Scuba. Spryguy Jan 2013 #84

The Democratic party can't even agree on "acceptable positions in gun control policy." hack89 Jan 2013 #92

So, youd throw away my support on GLBTQ equality, free speech, SQUEE Jan 2013 #107

He's like the right wingers tell moderates that it's better to keep the Republican brand pure than iiibbb Jan 2013 #121

Thanks applegrove~ Cha Jan 2013 #88

Ponder this gunnies DainBramaged Jan 2013 #105

Why? derby378 Jan 2013 #110

Well... except that I am pro gay marriage, and pro choice I'm not sure what you mean. iiibbb Jan 2013 #122

Right, as if you didn't understand......... DainBramaged Jan 2013 #124

It was your post title that grouped everyone together... iiibbb Jan 2013 #125

Ok, I pondered SQUEE Jan 2013 #137

beautiful samsingh Jan 2013 #123

Why did this make the gun nutters nervous? Robb Jan 2013 #126

Kick. Chorophyll Jan 2013 #128

How many of them were shot... harmonicon Jan 2013 #129

Looks like a Right to Chose march Useless Eater Jan 2013 #135

Wow, Geraldo making sense. Have the other Fox clowns even looked at the president's proposals??? spicegal Jan 2013 #136