General Discussion

thucythucy

(9,064 posts)

96. I know. It used to be

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:43 PM

Jan 2013

the Association for Retarded Children, then the Association for Retarded Citizens (since children do after all grow up) but then the use of "retarded" became an issue in and of itself--actually it was something of an issue from the get-go.

I always thought though that they finessed it rather well--having an organizational memory and culture that went back into the 1950s, wanting to retain their "trademark" as it were, BUT addressing the objections of self advocates to the R word. It's sort of like how ADAPT went from American Disabled for Accessible Public Transit to American Disabled for Attendant Programs Today (I think? It's getting late, my brain is disengaging!)--in this case keeping the acronym as an acronym but shifting the meaning.

I have to get to bed, but it's good comparing notes. I'll check the thread sometime tomorrow to see what develops.

Talk to you then,

Thucy

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Should men be leaders in the feminist movement? [View all] boston bean Jan 2013 OP

Why not? Zoeisright Jan 2013 #1

bingo! liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #11

Men have important roles to fill Warpy Jan 2013 #53

I completely agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #71

I agree with you, which is why I voted no also. Raksha Jan 2013 #95

I think that men can certainly do MUCH to assist the feminist movement... mike_c Jan 2013 #2

Thank you. One of the first responses I've seen on this that gets it. boston bean Jan 2013 #3

We don't have to get it liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #9

On internet discussion boards, there is always a contrary opinion. boston bean Jan 2013 #13

I'll go further now that you've gotten me thinking about this.... mike_c Jan 2013 #17

i really appreciate your post. balanced and though out without having to defend. seabeyond Jan 2013 #25

So out of 100 "leaders" 5 can't be men.. snooper2 Jan 2013 #84

Ditto. nt Honeycombe8 Jan 2013 #18

I agree HockeyMom Jan 2013 #28

Thanks, Mike. You're a mensch Warpy Jan 2013 #54

Ha! A friend told me KT2000 Jan 2013 #4

Does the feminist movement need "leaders"? Recursion Jan 2013 #5

uh, every movement has leaders. I guess feminism doesn't deserve them now. boston bean Jan 2013 #7

Does every movement have leaders? Recursion Jan 2013 #10

And other movements like civil rights movements might disagree with you. boston bean Jan 2013 #12

If you'll check, my answer was "no" Recursion Jan 2013 #14

This message was self-deleted by its author thucythucy Jan 2013 #75

Yes (nt) bigwillq Jan 2013 #6

Men should be standing right behind women on this issue! ananda Jan 2013 #8

Uh, no... one_voice Jan 2013 #48

Male allies should set clear unapologetic examples. Recursion Jan 2013 #15

leadership with their gender, yes. allies and supporters of women, yes. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #16

If by example you mean supporting feminists and feminism boston bean Jan 2013 #22

I think I expressed myself badly. Recursion Jan 2013 #27

The bechdel requires two women to speak to one another about something other than a male. boston bean Jan 2013 #31

It works by me listening and two women talking Recursion Jan 2013 #39

My POV? Anyone who thinks that a person's ability to contribute to society's progress should be MADem Jan 2013 #19

Support, advocate? Certainly yes. Lead? No. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jan 2013 #20

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: Romulus Quirinus Jan 2013 #21

wow. You sure have a militant view of feminism. liberal_at_heart Jan 2013 #23

No, it means we have differing views. Thanks for calling me militant. boston bean Jan 2013 #26

Should white people be leaders in racial civil rights movements? gollygee Jan 2013 #24

Effective people should lead. iiibbb Jan 2013 #29

It is mostly men who lead large corporations. They must be the only effective leaders out there.. boston bean Jan 2013 #30

"Right"? iiibbb Jan 2013 #55

That is just not the case. There are leaders who aren't good leaders. boston bean Jan 2013 #59

A lot of corporations are poorly run iiibbb Jan 2013 #60

Should white people be leaders in the minority civil rights movement? smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #32

could never really, truly understand their experience seabeyond Jan 2013 #34

So white people should excuse themselves from opinions on Black rights ?? THAT IS PURE IGNORANCE !!! Unrepentant Fenian Jan 2013 #36

Strawman alert! gollygee Jan 2013 #40

Really? When? Unrepentant Fenian Jan 2013 #72

Any post that begins with "so" is likely to be a strawman Warpy Jan 2013 #73

i listen to the african american community and support them fully. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #42

Even THESE members of the community? FrodosPet Jan 2013 #129

he is a member of the black community fighting for their rights? wow, how to reach deep seabeyond Jan 2013 #130

no one said that obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #109

No. You don't get it. It's not that we should excuse ourselves from opinions or even offering smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #131

Thanks! To be honest, I was a little offended at first, but I got it eventually. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #38

that is the bottom line. why men are offended i really do not get. it is obvious to me. seabeyond Jan 2013 #44

Thanks and Hi! smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #132

I am an advocate for the disabled. As a neurotypical person, I have relative privilege. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #33

Congrats, you have found an example where people with their faculties and physical health boston bean Jan 2013 #37

a) feminism IS advocacy. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #45

That is not what the feminist movement thinks nor what I think. boston bean Jan 2013 #49

"that thinks their historical oppressor should lead them." lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #50

You agree they should not be leaders. I'm assuming for some far out reason, that has no boston bean Jan 2013 #52

"No commonality" is an accurate assumption. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #68

The people leading the movement for change to force politicians boston bean Jan 2013 #76

The low-hanging fruit for equality has already been picked. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #78

So, in your mind there is no need for feminism to exist. boston bean Jan 2013 #79

No, I think there are purposes for both forms of advocacy. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #82

Nobody is saying "who gives a lshit what men think". We do care. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #134

Personally, I agree. Men shouldn't lead the feminism movement. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #139

BB: I'm not sure this is a good example. thucythucy Jan 2013 #88

I agree. boston bean Jan 2013 #89

The Arc has not been an acronym for at least 20 years. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #94

I know. It used to be thucythucy Jan 2013 #96

"Nothing about us, without us" is one of the slogans thucythucy Jan 2013 #85

Thank you for this Thucy. boston bean Jan 2013 #87

Hi! We crossed posts! thucythucy Jan 2013 #91

The board of directors to whom I report is made up partly of people with developmental disabilities. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #90

This is indeed a complex issue thucythucy Jan 2013 #93

Why Can't You RobinA Jan 2013 #123

If I'm carrying the flag, I try do be damn sure that I'm marching in the direction people want me to lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #125

Why the hell not ??? Unrepentant Fenian Jan 2013 #35

It is sexist to think men shouldn't be in charge of the women's movement gollygee Jan 2013 #41

By preference - i'm not sure i understand - are you arguing that men should el_bryanto Jan 2013 #105

I'm being sarcastic gollygee Jan 2013 #106

ah ok - sorry for misunderstanding. n/t el_bryanto Jan 2013 #112

I was going to post a link to a PAC to encourage Sec. Clinton to run for President ... but... Unrepentant Fenian Jan 2013 #43

so, if you, a man, do not get your way, you throw a hissy and women under the bus. and you want seabeyond Jan 2013 #46

Look again before you throw YOUR hissy fit. I DID post the link... Unrepentant Fenian Jan 2013 #47

oh, like you were not throwing out that old bone. geeesh, and now, what? no? whatevah. nt seabeyond Jan 2013 #51

I'm sorry I had trouble understanding what you were trying to say, would you please re-phrase it ? Unrepentant Fenian Jan 2013 #70

"throw a hissy" and other great phrases from Seabeyond... Bonobo Jan 2013 #92

No. Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #56

Or pump gas and shovel the driveway LuvLoogie Jan 2013 #86

A man working for the issue should not be paid equally? Bonobo Jan 2013 #57

As a gay man, I would be disgusted with the gay rights movement if it banned hetrosexual leaders. Kurska Jan 2013 #58

As a straight woman who has worked for years with your groups MuseRider Jan 2013 #61

A civil rights movement should never tell someone they can't do something because of who they are. Kurska Jan 2013 #66

Then maybe it's not a civil rights movement. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #80

I'd kick my sons' asses if they weren't leaders in feminism. yardwork Jan 2013 #62

You said it with less words than I did LOL kdmorris Jan 2013 #119

Kind of defeats the purpose. The whole purpose of feminism is making women at LEAST MotherPetrie Jan 2013 #63

Well, there is always that little hump to get over, but many seem to be able boston bean Jan 2013 #74

Not No; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #64

Thank YOU! For getting it. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #133

Not to side-track the discussion; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #141

Thank you so much for your smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #142

If the goal is equality then yes, or are some people more equal in certain cases? The Straight Story Jan 2013 #65

It is a women's movement gollygee Jan 2013 #107

My answer: Some of us were, long ago. Coyotl Jan 2013 #67

Pass tama Jan 2013 #69

I think this depends on how we define "leader" for the purpose of this poll. ZombieHorde Jan 2013 #77

Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #81

crazyjoe. women cannot think rationally and make logical decisions and you trust us with BABIES seabeyond Jan 2013 #83

yes, with a big caveat... CreekDog Jan 2013 #97

How about could instead of should? As a dad to 2 young girls, I feel very vested in women's rights. Throd Jan 2013 #98

Sure, as long as it's a feminist organization with no women in it. Zorra Jan 2013 #99

"understanding of the reasons why feminism is even still necessary after well over a century of redqueen Jan 2013 #117

If I say I approve of your post, will you hold that against me? randome Jan 2013 #118

Most leaders rise to the position by consent of the people they are leading kdmorris Jan 2013 #100

Do I lead as a male yes should I lead the movement no Arcanetrance Jan 2013 #101

wow. really? your mom said and did that? shameful. i will say, having two older brothers seabeyond Jan 2013 #104

Yeah my mom learned that from her parents Arcanetrance Jan 2013 #108

truly amazing to me and i know even today it is very much out there, but, i did not grow up seabeyond Jan 2013 #111

My mother has gotten better in recent years standing up for herself more Arcanetrance Jan 2013 #114

omg, that is horrible, lol. so sad. but, seabeyond Jan 2013 #115

Seems like an oxymoron to me. nt bemildred Jan 2013 #102

No. But they are needed, wanted and appreciated as allies in our struggle. The fact remains.. Little Star Jan 2013 #103

No, the leaders should always be women obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #110

Yes, good point. Men do lead organizations such as NOMAS redqueen Jan 2013 #121

Right, I think PFLAG and NOMAS are the vanguard obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #124

IMNSHO any poll like this should be restricted to women only. nt redqueen Jan 2013 #113

Generally "No" to being leaders. Fervent supporters, yes. randome Jan 2013 #116

Men can be wonderful allies. Starry Messenger Jan 2013 #120

Most men who claim to be feminists are really performing 21st century chivalry. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #122

Gonna go with my gut on this one. MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #126

No 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #127

Thank you for your thoughtful post. smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #136

You are welcome 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #143

Hmmm uriel1972 Jan 2013 #128

Yes... MellowDem Jan 2013 #135

Ummmmmmmmmmmm.... smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #138

Gees smirky... MellowDem Jan 2013 #144

your stance is... the womans movement should NOT be about women. black movement NOT seabeyond Jan 2013 #145

No, that's not my stance... MellowDem Jan 2013 #146

What are you talking about? smirkymonkey Jan 2013 #147

Your last sentence is accurate. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2013 #140

Well, someone needs to straighten them chicks out. Bucky Jan 2013 #137