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RZM

(8,556 posts)
14. Hate to rain on parades here
Fri Jan 27, 2012, 03:43 AM
Jan 2012

But this isn't actually all that new in an ethnic sense, as some seem to be interpreting it. It's not evidence that American Indians are descended form the Russians we think of today. Those people originated further West and didn't spread into 'European Russia' until relatively recently, something more like 1500 years ago. And the Altai region isn't even part of European Russia. It's more like Central Asia (it's nestled between what are now Mongolia, China, and Kazakhstan).

People may be getting tripped up because it's part of the Russian Federation, which is the largest country on earth and includes a myriad of ethnic groups. But the enormous Russia we think of controlled by ethnic Russians is a relatively recent phenomenon, especially considering the time scales we're talking about here.

Ethnic Russians didn't expand there until the early modern period, when they colonized Siberia and slowly took control of land that had once been part of the Mongol hordes. The core of Russian civilization as we know it was still a relatively modest tract of land centered around Muscovy/Ukraine until they began expanding after the end of Mongol rule there. That's one of the biggest ironies of Russian history. Popular opinion holds that Russia has frequently been a target of invasions, but in fact it's always been highly expansionist. From roughly the 17th-19th centuries, Russia grew by about the size of a Holland every single year, when you average the gains over the entire period.

I'm not sure exactly when the Altai region was firmly under Russian control (and colonized with ethnic Russians, who comprise a little over half of the population there today) but it probably wasn't until the 18th century at the very earliest. Some areas in Central Asia held out until the late 19th century.

Bottom line, if you have Native American blood, this study doesn't mean you're all that closely related to Putin. More like you're related to the non-Russians who live in Altai, who look a lot more like Sitting Bull than they look like Putin

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I can't wait to tell my friends they're a bunch of Russkies. Warpy Jan 2012 #1
I find it shocking that they moved so far North. I wonder if they were running from snagglepuss Jan 2012 #2
There were (and still are) a lot less predatory beasts in frigid climates. Amonester Jan 2012 #16
THat would make sense but then why wouldn't all early people move into the far North why only snagglepuss Jan 2012 #25
Not so - grizzlies, polar bears and especially the now-extinct short-faced bear were there jpak Jan 2012 #29
That maybe so...but it ain't got SHIT on the Honey Badger... truebrit71 Jan 2012 #33
I saw a special on Netflix (I think from NatGeo) that suggested Bolo Boffin Jan 2012 #19
I think most migrations were to get away from enemies Warpy Jan 2012 #31
Mitochondral DNA shows migration from South America to the South Pacific, not much vice-versa. moriah Jan 2012 #13
This seems to support an earlier (3 or 4 years ago) PotatoChip Jan 2012 #20
My family ran to sailors, scholars and itinerant musicians Warpy Jan 2012 #32
Ha, you may well be right, about that... PotatoChip Jan 2012 #40
There's a lot of evidence for different waves of migration starroute Jan 2012 #30
So I an part Russian Broderick Jan 2012 #3
hehe. My great-grandparents were from Russia and I married an Am. Indian. Woot! glinda Jan 2012 #4
That is really quite something. snagglepuss Jan 2012 #5
Hope we are not related. Perhaps too many people are related already and the IQ level is suffering. glinda Jan 2012 #42
Du rec. Nt xchrom Jan 2012 #6
I didn't realize this was anything new. learned decades ago that they had crossed the land bridge niyad Jan 2012 #7
I had always heard they came from China and the Pacific Ring. snagglepuss Jan 2012 #8
this is a relatively small, specific location near the center of Asia eShirl Jan 2012 #26
So the term will be flamingdem Jan 2012 #9
That area is not ethnic Russian or any other kind of European Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #10
Beat me to it :) n/t RZM Jan 2012 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author PotatoChip Jan 2012 #21
Interesting post but comments about fact this link is from the DM is snagglepuss Jan 2012 #24
I'll have to agree with you on that. AverageJoe90 Jan 2012 #39
the genetics is right (presumably)-- it's just a crappy report.... mike_c Jan 2012 #41
It makes perfect sense, but try telling it to Creationists. Jean V. Dubois Jan 2012 #11
Wasn't this obvious to those who knew human migration patterns? moriah Jan 2012 #12
Hate to rain on parades here RZM Jan 2012 #14
Thanks for such an insightful post. What I find fascinating is that they have snagglepuss Jan 2012 #23
I agree. It is fascinating what we're learning about our early history n/t RZM Jan 2012 #28
Unfortunately, this article isn't exactly 'insightful', IMO. AverageJoe90 Jan 2012 #38
Well really what was formerly part of Mongolia. n/t vaberella Jan 2012 #17
My friend who is AsahinaKimi Jan 2012 #18
Good news. My wife's from Asia. Some her ancestors populated the Americas. pampango Jan 2012 #22
Mistaken for Mexican? She shouldn't be. AverageJoe90 Jan 2012 #36
But, but ,but the Great Spirit created them right here! AngryAmish Jan 2012 #27
Someone should tell the Mormons Sheepshank Jan 2012 #34
Not really buying this, tbh. AverageJoe90 Jan 2012 #35
The Mescalero Apache are said to come from Mescar, Mongolia. duhneece Jan 2012 #37
Not surprising, but still pretty cool derby378 Jan 2012 #43
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