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In reply to the discussion: Were you, John McCain, a good pilot or a bad pilot? Yes or No? [View all]pscot
(21,044 posts)30. This is from Truthdigg
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081007_investigating_john_mccains_tragedy_at_sea/
In considering the 1967 catastrophe, it is important to note that the official report concluded that no individual bore responsibility for the fire or its spread. There are a number of conflicting accounts of the Forrestal accident, but here is the story as based on the strongest sources. The fire started at 10:51 a.m. Saturday, July 29, 1967, as 30-year-old Lt. Cmdr. John McCain sat on the port side of the Forrestal in his A-4 Skyhawk going through preflight checks. To his right was Lt. Cmdr. Fred White, also in an A-4 Skyhawk attack aircraft. A Zuni rocket on another airplane accidentally fired and flew across the flight deck, passing through Whites auxiliary fuel tank and falling into the ocean. Fuel spilled onto the deck from Whites craft and ignited. McCain told his biographer, Robert Timberg, and repeats in his own book, Faith of My Fathers, that the rocket hit his own plane and knocked two bombs from it into the burning fuel as he scrambled out of his cockpit and raced to safety across the deck.1
There was, in fact, a single bombnot twothat dropped to the deck. It exploded 90 seconds after the fire broke out, intensifying the blaze until it raged out of control. White and Thomas Ott, McCains parachute rigger, were among the first to be killed instantly or mortally injured, along with most of the firefighting crew. McCains plane captain, Robert Zwerlein, was one of those who suffered fatal wounds at this point.
A camera on the deck recorded images showing that the Zuni rocket struck Whites plane. The Navy report later attributed the dropped bomb to Whites plane, although the film footage does not seem to establish this definitively. However, McCain has said many times that the Zuni rocket caused the bomb (two bombs in McCains version) to fall from his own craft.
Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCains craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCains Skyhawk. These sourceswho spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identifiedagree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.
Whatever the circumstances of the fires origins, McCain did not stay on deck to help fight the blaze as the men around him did. With the firefighting crew virtually wiped out, men untrained in fighting fires had to pick up the fire hoses, rescue the wounded or frantically throw bombs and even planes over the ships side to prevent further tragedy. McCain left them behind and went down to the hangar-bay level, where he briefly helped crew members heave some bombs overboard. After that, he went to the pilots ready room and watched the fire on a television monitor hooked to a camera trained on the deck.
McCain has never been asked to explain why he claims that the Zuni rocket struck his plane. If a bomb or bombs subsequently fell from McCains plane as he has said, it seems to strongly suggests pilot error, and if a bomb or bombs did not fall from his plane, it suggests rash disregard for important facts in his accounts of the accident.
There is plenty more about this story that raises questions about McCains truthfulness and judgment. In the first hours after the fire, he apparently did not claim to have been injured. New York Times reporter R.W. Apple, who helicoptered out to the ship the day after the tragedy and sought out McCain as the son and grandson of two noted admirals, never mentioned him being wounded, although he reported on him more than on any other crew member. This would be an odd omission on Apples part if McCain indeed had been wounded, given that service wounds are usually highlighted in such reports during wartime. McCains own father, after seeing his son several weeks later, sent a letter to relatives and friends about the fire saying, Happily for all of us, he [John] came through without a scratch
In considering the 1967 catastrophe, it is important to note that the official report concluded that no individual bore responsibility for the fire or its spread. There are a number of conflicting accounts of the Forrestal accident, but here is the story as based on the strongest sources. The fire started at 10:51 a.m. Saturday, July 29, 1967, as 30-year-old Lt. Cmdr. John McCain sat on the port side of the Forrestal in his A-4 Skyhawk going through preflight checks. To his right was Lt. Cmdr. Fred White, also in an A-4 Skyhawk attack aircraft. A Zuni rocket on another airplane accidentally fired and flew across the flight deck, passing through Whites auxiliary fuel tank and falling into the ocean. Fuel spilled onto the deck from Whites craft and ignited. McCain told his biographer, Robert Timberg, and repeats in his own book, Faith of My Fathers, that the rocket hit his own plane and knocked two bombs from it into the burning fuel as he scrambled out of his cockpit and raced to safety across the deck.1
There was, in fact, a single bombnot twothat dropped to the deck. It exploded 90 seconds after the fire broke out, intensifying the blaze until it raged out of control. White and Thomas Ott, McCains parachute rigger, were among the first to be killed instantly or mortally injured, along with most of the firefighting crew. McCains plane captain, Robert Zwerlein, was one of those who suffered fatal wounds at this point.
A camera on the deck recorded images showing that the Zuni rocket struck Whites plane. The Navy report later attributed the dropped bomb to Whites plane, although the film footage does not seem to establish this definitively. However, McCain has said many times that the Zuni rocket caused the bomb (two bombs in McCains version) to fall from his own craft.
Some of those who were on the Forrestal and other persons familiar with the ordnance told me that because the rocket did not hit McCains craft, only actions by the pilot could have caused any bomb to fall from McCains Skyhawk. These sourceswho spoke under the condition that they not be publicly identifiedagree with each other that, if any bomb fell from the McCain airplane, it was because of actions that he took either in error or panic upon seeing the fire on the deck or in his hasty exit from the plane. Two switches in the cockpit of a Skyhawk need to be thrown to drop such a bomb, according to the sources.
Whatever the circumstances of the fires origins, McCain did not stay on deck to help fight the blaze as the men around him did. With the firefighting crew virtually wiped out, men untrained in fighting fires had to pick up the fire hoses, rescue the wounded or frantically throw bombs and even planes over the ships side to prevent further tragedy. McCain left them behind and went down to the hangar-bay level, where he briefly helped crew members heave some bombs overboard. After that, he went to the pilots ready room and watched the fire on a television monitor hooked to a camera trained on the deck.
McCain has never been asked to explain why he claims that the Zuni rocket struck his plane. If a bomb or bombs subsequently fell from McCains plane as he has said, it seems to strongly suggests pilot error, and if a bomb or bombs did not fall from his plane, it suggests rash disregard for important facts in his accounts of the accident.
There is plenty more about this story that raises questions about McCains truthfulness and judgment. In the first hours after the fire, he apparently did not claim to have been injured. New York Times reporter R.W. Apple, who helicoptered out to the ship the day after the tragedy and sought out McCain as the son and grandson of two noted admirals, never mentioned him being wounded, although he reported on him more than on any other crew member. This would be an odd omission on Apples part if McCain indeed had been wounded, given that service wounds are usually highlighted in such reports during wartime. McCains own father, after seeing his son several weeks later, sent a letter to relatives and friends about the fire saying, Happily for all of us, he [John] came through without a scratch
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Were you, John McCain, a good pilot or a bad pilot? Yes or No? [View all]
Stinky The Clown
Jan 2013
OP
The rocket that started the whole mess was not fired from McCains aircraft.
nick of time
Jan 2013
#35
I don't know, pitch in and help instead of going off to pack his AWOL bag?
Brother Buzz
Jan 2013
#29
During a fire when the first response team is decimated all hands fight the fire.
denbot
Jan 2013
#71
he appears to be a disingenuous, bitter and angry man who has a humongous ego and imagines
Voice for Peace
Jan 2013
#36
Poor Sidney! The fuckstick was in over his head and made everyone pay for it
HangOnKids
Jan 2013
#47
I already took those factors into consideration in giving him the benefit of the doubt.
leveymg
Jan 2013
#64
The media will NEVER hold McCain accountable. He'll run to the cameras as soon as he gets the first
Liberal_Stalwart71
Jan 2013
#27
Just think, in an alternate universe he is beginning his second term as President (nt)
Nye Bevan
Jan 2013
#32