General Discussion

MineralMan

(151,222 posts)

66. It's a very simple one. It doesn't require actual fluency.

Fri Jan 27, 2012, 01:30 PM

Jan 2012

Try reading a tax form or a driver's license manual in some other language, like one you learned in school. You'll find out that an ability to speak a language well enough to get along doesn't mean you can read complex documents in another language.

We try to help people to get along and follow the laws and other things in this country. We do it whether the person has the fluency of a native English speaker or not. I'm reasonably fluent in Russian, and can carry on conversations in that language about most things. However, if I have to read some document in Russian, I absolutely will need a Russian/English dictionary. Even then, it can be difficult.

What I don't understand is why you don't understand that it's entirely possible to be a citizen by naturalization without complete fluency in English.

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Would a national language be unifying / disunifying? [View all] Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 OP

We're already multi-lingual. We have been since the beginning. Deal with it. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #1

Having a national language does not eliminate the ability to be multi-lingual. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #4

It's more of a world-wide language, but we're still a multi-lingual country. HopeHoops Jan 2012 #57

Very true. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #61

It is amazing .... oldhippie Jan 2012 #69

Oh, really - try telling that to us German descendant who were forced to stop speaking it. As to jwirr Jan 2012 #99

The government forced you to stop speaking German? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #104

There was no law but in case you did not know it there was great pressure from non-Germans in this jwirr Jan 2012 #105

And my grandparents would not let the kids speak anything but English in household Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #106

That is my point. I wish I had learned more as a child. jwirr Jan 2012 #109

Always has been, and always will be... fascisthunter Jan 2012 #89

You're giving undue weight to a national COLGATE4 Jan 2012 #2

True, but it is one factor. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #5

Absolutely. COLGATE4 Jan 2012 #101

There is a lot of regionalism and conflict in India surrounding ethic differences. limpyhobbler Jan 2012 #114

Perhaps. But COLGATE4 Jan 2012 #118

Japan in particular, and Germany as well... RevStPatrick Jan 2012 #3

And the question is whether moving to a more homogenous society, is good/bad/neutral. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #9

Low population(relative to resources) describes Japan!??? Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #16

Japan does break the mold a bit in regards to population density, but Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #19

That's because they were xenophobic isolationists until relatively recently. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2012 #27

+1 BumRushDaShow Jan 2012 #24

Boring..... Tikki Jan 2012 #6

. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2012 #7

We have no need for an official language. MineralMan Jan 2012 #8

It would seem that our citizens have a responsibility to speak the de facto language. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #11

And they do. But, we also have many recent immigrants MineralMan Jan 2012 #12

Isn't there a language test to become a citizen? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #13

It's a very simple one. It doesn't require actual fluency. MineralMan Jan 2012 #66

You have it backwards. A country serves its citizens. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2012 #15

Ask not what you country can do for you....nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #20

Kennedy was talking about morality. I'm talking about legality. jeff47 Jan 2012 #25

You think taking pride in your country is a legal issue? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #26

Creating a national language makes it a legal issue. jeff47 Jan 2012 #29

Is there not an English exam to become a citizen? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #32

It is still a requirement oldhippie Jan 2012 #59

Thank you for clearing that up. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #62

Apparently you're having trouble with your own language jeff47 Jan 2012 #77

What exactly are you quoting? nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #78

My post that you responded to jeff47 Jan 2012 #81

You're quoting your own post. I thought you were quoting me. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #85

You do realize you're failing your own test here? jeff47 Jan 2012 #88

Still not sure what I missed. You made a quote and I thought you were quoting me. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #91

Here's the entire post: jeff47 Jan 2012 #107

What indicates that you're not quoting me? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #108

that seems to be saying that people should not speak other languages, either at home, or in public. niyad Jan 2012 #22

No, that's not saying that al all. nt Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #23

that is certainly what it sounds like. english is the de facto language of this country--why this niyad Jan 2012 #35

For safety alone. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #38

oh wow, SAFETY? that is the best you can do now? niyad Jan 2012 #43

I would hope that language testing would be sufficient in grade school. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #45

right, and that is why so listening to so many people is so painful. niyad Jan 2012 #49

That's a whole other issue. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #51

There are some european countries newspeak Jan 2012 #76

And yet Germany is a place I would like to live, but for a whole host of other reasons. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #79

I agree Johonny Jan 2012 #14

It's an opportunity to "tell people what to do," when we don't have to. immoderate Jan 2012 #10

It would probably be unifying if it were Klingon hootinholler Jan 2012 #17

That is not the issue for me. A National Language freezes it in time. Loudmxr Jan 2012 #18

French is an example of a language that doesn't grow. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #21

really? and just who would be the ones deeming it necessary? who do you envision being the niyad Jan 2012 #33

Merriam Webster seem like good candidates. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #34

you are truly amusing. niyad Jan 2012 #39

To what specific purpose? LanternWaste Jan 2012 #42

I'm actually starting to wonder that myself, I think as long as there is sufficient language testing Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #44

Are not most traffic signs printed with symbols LanternWaste Jan 2012 #48

Most. But I have seen signs that say things like "open manhole cover" and "highway ends in 1/4 mile" Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #50

Symbology is much, much better for safety signs jeff47 Jan 2012 #82

Totally agree. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #84

Are you kidding? Langauge in essence is always changing. vaberella Jan 2012 #95

US is certainly not unique in number of languages or cultures... even amonf large nations. LanternWaste Jan 2012 #28

That is very true. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #30

Right after we pick an official PIE. JoePhilly Jan 2012 #31

Pumpkin Son of Gob Jan 2012 #96

Blasphemer!!! JoePhilly Jan 2012 #98

English-as-national-language is a bigoted, right-wing meme Hugabear Jan 2012 #36

English as national language does not mean "English-only" Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #40

Seems ProSense Jan 2012 #53

I am beginning to agree. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #56

How about English and???? Skidmore Jan 2012 #47

We are devolving into a nation of losely affiliated regions. The language issue is cursory Romulox Jan 2012 #37

I'd have to agree with that. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #41

Yes and my suggestion is Latin. CJCRANE Jan 2012 #46

Et tu, Brute? pinboy3niner Jan 2012 #54

E pluribus unum! CJCRANE Jan 2012 #64

This isn't going to last much longer. Your agenda is showing. Ikonoklast Jan 2012 #52

Please explain my agenda. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #55

I think it's self-explanatory. Ikonoklast Jan 2012 #71

Apparently not. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #72

Unnecessary, because we already have one. LeftinOH Jan 2012 #58

Yes, de facto seems to be effective. Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #60

The US is also many times LARGER than Germany and Japan charlie and algernon Jan 2012 #63

the fighting about it is definitely disunifying eShirl Jan 2012 #65

I used to think it was bad JustAnotherGen Jan 2012 #67

We already have one. Profanity. Popular with all and extremely useful when talking politics. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #68

As a practical matter, declaring a national language, would make no difference in the real world, trackfan Jan 2012 #70

Declaring a national language means government documents and forms will only be in that language jeff47 Jan 2012 #83

Which, by the way, would take jobs away from translators. Capitalocracy Jan 2012 #121

Is unity a virtue? n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #73

Double plus correct, Citizen Lumberjack Bruce Wayne Jan 2012 #75

America's not that unique in its diversity--Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, India Bruce Wayne Jan 2012 #74

I don't think a strong ohheckyeah Jan 2012 #80

They spoke Spanish in this country before they did English. . B Calm Jan 2012 #86

Not in my home state, they didn't .... oldhippie Jan 2012 #87

What state you from? B Calm Jan 2012 #90

New York oldhippie Jan 2012 #102

You are right. The French explorers were in that part of the country. B Calm Jan 2012 #110

(Sigh) ...... oldhippie Jan 2012 #111

(Sigh) ...... B Calm Jan 2012 #120

That's relative it depends on your state. n/t vaberella Jan 2012 #94

Also depends on what you call "this country" ... oldhippie Jan 2012 #103

No they didn't. Definitely. They spoke varying different Native American tongues. vaberella Jan 2012 #93

Not in Michigan. French. nt Romulox Jan 2012 #97

There is a de-facto language of the US and that's English. vaberella Jan 2012 #92

Fine then, we all have to learn Cherokee. alphafemale Jan 2012 #100

This push for English to be a national language is nothing more than right-wing nationalism. white_wolf Jan 2012 #112

Ever been to Quebec? aquart Jan 2012 #113

You do know that Quebec has an official language, right? Snake Alchemist Jan 2012 #117

I think it should be Quechua. n/t rucky Jan 2012 #115

English is the world's second language FarCenter Jan 2012 #116

I don't see how adopting an official language would serve any Proles Jan 2012 #119