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(24,694 posts)
203. Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power?
Wed Feb 6, 2013, 01:33 AM
Feb 2013

If not then you do not get to make any one human an exception to our form of law and government, Obama is a human, we are not supposed to hang by "trust" in a personality and then extends that "trust" effectively without end or enforceable or even verifiable boundary or limits as an inherent outcome of said "trust".

I think this is crazytown territory.

We didn't, Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #1
I updated to make my point clearer. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #3
But FDR DID Drop Bombs on them... OneAngryDemocrat Feb 2013 #234
This is most definitely about "Americans in America"! xtraxritical Feb 2013 #239
Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #2
Yes! Perhaps if he had, we'd have won the war. Nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #5
And the Bush family would be extinct. LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #12
... leftstreet Feb 2013 #18
correct that vile branch of destruction would have been extinguished Vincardog Feb 2013 #27
DUzy! SunSeeker Feb 2013 #84
Yes, but to be fair, old Joe Kennedy shared their sympathies n/t markpkessinger Feb 2013 #211
Henry Ford too. n/t Cary Feb 2013 #227
Yeah, ain't it kind of funny malthaussen Feb 2013 #230
Hi Manny! tblue Feb 2013 #116
And hello to you too! MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #151
And you have 'liberal' in your username leftstreet Feb 2013 #8
Are you serious? You are against Habeus? grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #72
Yes! It would give Obama cover! MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #128
What about internment camps without trial? JaneyVee Feb 2013 #4
Ignore those. WWII was a good war. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #7
At least it was a war, not an occupation leftstreet Feb 2013 #9
Bush invaded and occupied Iraq. Obama ended that. ProSense Feb 2013 #14
Wiki: List of Foreign Military Bases in the US leftstreet Feb 2013 #17
Yes the Germans have a base in the US, it is part of Holloman Air Force Base happyslug Feb 2013 #249
Mostly they allow for medical flights and coverage.... Historic NY Feb 2013 #40
the us is still in iraq. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #108
We still have American troops in Germany. tclambert Feb 2013 #61
and a defined theater and declared enemies. TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #144
My point is that war throughout history has always been oppressive and f**ked up. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #13
who are we at war with now? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #131
Al-Qaeda. Hopefully be over soon. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #162
fail. there is no such thing as 'war' with an organization. war is a conflict between states or HiPointDem Feb 2013 #167
That still does not rise to summary execution hootinholler Feb 2013 #59
People died in those camps. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #64
It's awful that people died in those camps MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #70
They were killed by Govt soldiers. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #81
no, actually, most of the people that died died from routine causes. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #140
But more innocent Americans were killed by Govt soldiers than innocent Americans by drone JaneyVee Feb 2013 #161
actually, three american citizens have been killed by drones. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #169
not of torture, typhus or starvation, however. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #79
No, they were killed by armed guards with guns. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #83
'several'. not enough to make the death rate higher than the death rate in the general population. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #135
That's 1 more than innocent Americans killed by drone. JaneyVee Feb 2013 #164
you don't know who was innocent, or even what those killed supposedly did. not to mention HiPointDem Feb 2013 #166
120,000 resident aliens and citizens of Japanese ancestry were interned. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #236
you forgot the US territory of hawaii, with about 150,000 persons of japanese ancestry. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #240
The US territory of Hawaii OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #241
yes, if 1/3 of the population of hawaii had been interned, the economy would have been HiPointDem Feb 2013 #242
Yes, your point stands. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #245
i don't disagree. as do the rationalizations of obama's assassination policy based on specious HiPointDem Feb 2013 #247
That's cool. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #255
They were deprived of their freedom. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #193
about those Internment Camps: bvar22 Feb 2013 #238
The Japanese never had it easy. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #243
The War against the Japanese was horribly racist in origin, promotion, propaganda, and execution. bvar22 Feb 2013 #256
it was. my stepfather participated in the rounding up of japanese for internmen. i was astonished HiPointDem Feb 2013 #266
The Japanese internment OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #268
interesting. so was the thesis in the past, or are you still writing it? what was the focus? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #269
Aside from a few revisions, it's finished. OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #274
sounds highly interesting. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #275
Answer: ProSense Feb 2013 #6
I'm not surprised you approve of internment camps. Yet they are not executions. rug Feb 2013 #34
I'm not surprised at that silly comment. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #39
I'm not surprise at the attempted snark. rug Feb 2013 #41
The point was silly, but it's understandable you're sticking to it. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #42
yours is silly. interning people is worse than executing them without trial? what? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #63
I think we're ProSense Feb 2013 #87
i think your defense of the president's supposed power to kill anyone, anywhere, secretly, HiPointDem Feb 2013 #127
Really? backscatter712 Feb 2013 #191
How can you defend the end of Habeus? Does not every person have the right to face their accuser? grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #74
Lalalalala Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #208
Attack of the Clones in 3....2...1 kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #10
You only missed it by 4 posts. bahrbearian Feb 2013 #15
How can you say conclusively that he didn't? great white snark Feb 2013 #11
Because we have George Bush as evidence. bahrbearian Feb 2013 #16
Great answer! Th1onein Feb 2013 #20
Here's how we did it XRubicon Feb 2013 #19
Um, yes? alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #21
They were active saboteurs, not just sympathizers nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #22
Oh, right...and you forgot...not American alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #26
It's always a problem when ProSense Feb 2013 #30
I wish FDR was more evil, then we wouldn't have to worry about the BFFE. bahrbearian Feb 2013 #46
IIRC, one was a US citizen MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #33
So you are OK with executing "active saboteurs" but not those working with Al Qaeda to attack us? stevenleser Feb 2013 #35
I'm not OK with executing Americans without judicial due process MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #38
I'm not OK with it either. And it DID happen under FDR cali Feb 2013 #43
I trust that FDR was working to do the right thing MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #45
Wait, ProSense Feb 2013 #55
Yes, I trust that FDR was doing his best to do the right thing MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #60
What about the lynchings? Also, ProSense Feb 2013 #159
First off, health care was a fraction of the cost it is today, MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #163
FDR, as representative of the state, interned wakasa. he didn't target him personally for HiPointDem Feb 2013 #195
I'll say whatever I please here, hi cali Feb 2013 #216
yet you keep telling others what to do. ps: i never said the internment didnt destroy lives -- HiPointDem Feb 2013 #246
FDR did target Yamamoto. Personally... - n/t. lapfog_1 Feb 2013 #228
The commander of the japanese military. during a declared war. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #244
And we should have declared war... but not on a country. lapfog_1 Feb 2013 #262
We are in agreement. And that is IMO what is happening. stevenleser Feb 2013 #58
The memo is clear that the targets do not need to be involved MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #65
I'm going to do a larger segment on this during my next show but to give a preview... stevenleser Feb 2013 #77
It should be sorted out in much less than decades jberryhill Feb 2013 #85
In a previous show, I called on the administration to come up with a post drone solution to the stevenleser Feb 2013 #112
Who were the two Americans who decided to be al Qaeda? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #90
It's your OP. If you dont think anyone was killed we dont have much to talk about. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #91
That's not what I said. Nt. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #93
I know, you want to play games instead of address the difficult questions. Its understandable. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #98
No, you're putting words in my mouth nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #120
Case in point. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #125
Anwar al-Aulaqi's son was 16 when killed by drone... druidity33 Feb 2013 #110
Yup, Griswolds safe. Muslims who speak out against US foreign policy? They might not feel so safe. Bonobo Feb 2013 #133
They are not only targeting people involved in active plots. limpyhobbler Feb 2013 #277
You have the wrong metaphor. Al-Awlaki was a Tokyo Rose-type propagandist, not a combatant leveymg Feb 2013 #82
That is one contention, the other is that he was involved in operational planning. stevenleser Feb 2013 #89
Wouldn't that be better established in open court? leveymg Feb 2013 #101
Sure, and as I said above, if they were in the capital of Saudi Arabia or Egypt or Jordan or any stevenleser Feb 2013 #105
We knew exactly where he was, and there's nobody aside from maybe the Russian President who we truly leveymg Feb 2013 #117
How is one an unobtainable fugitive with no US charges filed? TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #186
Hear, hear! malthaussen Feb 2013 #233
If they're out sniffing bat shit in a cave, who cares? Scootaloo Feb 2013 #205
I've explained why that matters multiple times now, I doubt that argument is new to you. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #224
+1 nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #122
...and from my readings on this: none were in combat they were KoKo Feb 2013 #235
The CIA has stepped over a threshhold by executing US Citizens abroad who aren't armed and leveymg Feb 2013 #237
Attack of the history lesson. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #28
except they got some kind of due process. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #66
EXACTLY! grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #69
Military tribunals alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #71
as prisoners of a declared war on a specific country. so usual wartime protocol, i think. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #75
Usual wartime protocol? alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #86
unanimous vote, however. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #178
But not normal wartime protocol...FDR invented the tribunal for this specific case on July 2, 1942 alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #182
i'm not trying to win an argument. you think obama killing anyone he wants is ok. i don't. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #183
Excuse me, sir alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #185
i wasn't attacking you at all. i was stating what i understood your position to be. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #187
You understood wrong alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #188
i don't care. your tone was uncalled for. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #190
You basically called the person a supporter of murder. That justifies a lot of tone. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #231
Spies. That's a whole nother thing altogether. tblue Feb 2013 #121
Lord Hee-Haw exboyfil Feb 2013 #23
Here is audio archives of his war propaganda mucifer Feb 2013 #36
Did he get a trial? kenny blankenship Feb 2013 #49
Well, yes, but that messes up the point MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #54
No. Rex Feb 2013 #24
Talk to George Takei about how awesome they were to Japanese Americans catbyte Feb 2013 #25
did they kill them without trial? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #68
Mortaliy rates in camps very high. That's death without trial, esp. hard hit were catbyte Feb 2013 #76
What were the rates? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #94
actually not. rates of morbidity and mortality were comparable to rates in the general HiPointDem Feb 2013 #100
Very interesting. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #129
I met a Japanese-American couple who had been interned in a camp Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #199
and i knew a japanese college professor who'd been interned -- who didn't. yes, those facts HiPointDem Feb 2013 #202
My point was that *even if* morbidity and mortality were roughly equal Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #204
i'm well aware of that. the area near where i grew up was once covered with japanese truck HiPointDem Feb 2013 #207
Plantation labor Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #265
i found this about another camp in the same area, 'jerome'. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #270
I actually visited the Jerome site, back in 1998 I think Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #271
And his response was to hate the US forever? jberryhill Feb 2013 #88
If he did DonCoquixote Feb 2013 #29
To the Excuse Crew bringing up Japanese internment... Marr Feb 2013 #31
I thought the same thing quinnox Feb 2013 #37
uh, grab a clue: The OP used FDR to indict Obama. It's historically inaccuarate cali Feb 2013 #44
It's been brought up as a defense. Marr Feb 2013 #48
I think it goes like this alcibiades_mystery Feb 2013 #51
So FDR executed Americans without habeas corpus or trial MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #53
Yes, ProSense Feb 2013 #57
No, he didn't MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #62
That clears it up rather well, thank you. I think we're done, now. cheapdate Feb 2013 #115
How is it revisionist? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #50
Of course they are. There is nothing inexcusable as any excuse will do. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #210
I confess to thinking Prescott might have been a good example. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #32
Lame. MineralMan Feb 2013 #47
Executing Americans JEB Feb 2013 #52
Internment camps wrong does not equal drones are ok. Kalidurga Feb 2013 #56
+1 lunasun Feb 2013 #170
Washington did the same thing in 1776! grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #67
It seems you're talking about Obama here, so perhaps you should define 'sympathizer' RZM Feb 2013 #73
Was al-Alwaki proven to be an al Qaeda member? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #78
Is it proven that MannyGoldstein and ThirdwayManny are the same person? stevenleser Feb 2013 #80
That's why we have courts and due process MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #92
The Japanese soldier got due process? What if it had been an American of Japanese descent and the stevenleser Feb 2013 #95
Awkward deflect there Leser. Al-Awlaki never held a gun, as far as we know. Again, wrong metaphor leveymg Feb 2013 #97
Is it? You want me to tell you the mindset and daily activities of someone 10000 miles away? stevenleser Feb 2013 #102
You don't know who al-Awlaki was because that's classified. But, it's clear what his role was, leveymg Feb 2013 #113
Wikipedia disagrees with you. Apparently you are not as well informed as you think stevenleser Feb 2013 #124
Is Wiki the extent of your research? Why start with events in 2006? leveymg Feb 2013 #139
Here's a NYT story about the FBI taking an interest in him going back to 1999 and his 9/11 hijackers leveymg Feb 2013 #156
You didn't clarify what you mean by 'sympathizer' RZM Feb 2013 #104
Thank you! treestar Feb 2013 #217
I'm an FDR Dem, & possibly infused with Teddy Repub KakistocracyHater Feb 2013 #96
Both parties have become unhinged from the 99%, and unhinged from reality and evidence MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #136
And Third Party Manny finally makes an appearance...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #179
yes the "leaders" have lost their minds KakistocracyHater Feb 2013 #212
We didn't try the ones that joined German Army and shot at us SpartanDem Feb 2013 #99
Remember when he firebombed the city of Dresden killing 25,000 people? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #103
in a declared war on a specific country. as opposed to an undeclared war on 'enemies' anywhere HiPointDem Feb 2013 #106
Oh! Got ya'. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #107
What's 25,000 people? ProSense Feb 2013 #111
That's the 'official' count. Some believe 600,000 died. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #114
far from trying to 'explain away' anything, i'm explaining the difference between the firebombing HiPointDem Feb 2013 #123
You're right. There is a difference... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #126
Wouldn't it be wild if ProSense Feb 2013 #130
I guess DU would be fine with another war... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #137
We're no more in favor of more war than you're in favor of MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #141
Didn't the ProSense Feb 2013 #142
Not according to the courts that heard the case MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #145
So, if the Supreme Court rules drones are okay, you'll be okay with it too? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #147
The drones are not the problem MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #153
If they rule Obama is perfectly within his rights... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #158
So you supported the Internment? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #149
No. Constitutional does not equal right. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #152
So FDR was wrong? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #155
He was certainly wrong sometimes. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #157
Was the Internment brutally wrong? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #160
In my opinion, yes. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #165
"But apparently it wasn't unconstitutional." ProSense Feb 2013 #168
So, basically, do nothing? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #146
No. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #150
We don't know exactly what the process has been... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #154
Do you trust the Presidency regardless of occupant with such power? TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #203
Meh... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #206
Bullshit, a logical construct based on present trust in Obama and a rhetorical trick TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #273
Why do I think that if Pres Obama was carpet bombing Iran, you would support it? nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #189
i agree, more died at dresden than in obama's assassinations. however, that's really quite HiPointDem Feb 2013 #148
Not very secret apparently. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #171
after the fact. nameless body counts. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #172
Isn't that how it generally works? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #173
that's how it works in war. but this is not war; it's a president declaring he has the power to HiPointDem Feb 2013 #180
So, it comes back to you being okay with it if Obama declares war... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #181
massive fight with *who*? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #184
Whoever you're angry over us droning. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #192
no, who would we be fighting a war with if we weren't doing covert war? who is this 'al qaeda'? HiPointDem Feb 2013 #197
Hopefully we don't fight 'em... Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #198
I have beachfront property in Waziristan, just waiting for you.... Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #213
I'm not uninformed. I support it. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #214
If you'd bother to actually read about the subject, you'd know that most America-hating Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #215
I don't think you understand. Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #251
I do understand. Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #252
So, ignore 'em? Let 'em fester? Drunken Irishman Feb 2013 #253
Then maybe sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #260
Yes. And that was part of an effort to break Germany's will MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #118
"Awful stuff, awful. But perhaps less awful than the alternatives." ProSense Feb 2013 #119
Should the US have attacked Germany? Nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #132
Could you imagine if a drone could have taken out Hitler and his top officials? ProSense Feb 2013 #134
Droning Hitler would be fine. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #138
The policy was NOT to target Hitler. There was no help given assassination attempts. leveymg Feb 2013 #222
TARDIS bobduca Feb 2013 #226
K&R (n/t) a2liberal Feb 2013 #109
Empires behave in ways democracies really don't. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #143
Remember when FDR put 125,000 Japanese Americans into Internment Camps?...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #174
Remember when FDR developed atomic weapons?... nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #175
This message was self-deleted by its author SidDithers Feb 2013 #176
Remember when FDR refused to invite Jesse Owens to the White House, 'cause he was black?...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #177
No I dont remember and I am old and I doubt you remember. Do you have a point Sid? nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #194
Remember when he had a warship turn around to go pick up his dog? RZM Feb 2013 #218
Ok Manny, which of your multiple personalities is speaking here? rhett o rick Feb 2013 #196
Manny destroys the rationale of these wannabe autocrats so easily LittleBlue Feb 2013 #200
well said!!!! robinlynne Feb 2013 #201
A sympathizer is not the same as someone actively plotting and participating.... Duppers Feb 2013 #209
Remember how FDR killed 23 American POWs in Hirosima? JoePhilly Feb 2013 #219
That' a very misleading title. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #221
FDR provided the means. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #225
I believe that the question is narrower than MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #248
That's not very accurate. JoePhilly Feb 2013 #250
FDR signed an EO to imprison law-abiding citizens obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #220
No, but I do remember how Nazis executed FDR sympathizers Zorra Feb 2013 #223
I start out with my strong opinion about the memo. Cary Feb 2013 #229
There are some rather odd things about al-awlaki's bio. this video is interesting for a little HiPointDem Feb 2013 #267
Maybe, but you're suggesting something above my pay grade Cary Feb 2013 #272
Your experience with espionage and intrigue doesn't include the knowledge that intelligence HiPointDem Feb 2013 #278
We should demand to see the immigration paperwork of the 10k nazis they allowed to become Americans Sunlei Feb 2013 #232
Yep. We won that war by complaining about our enemies over the internet. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #254
Another question: Kelvin Mace Feb 2013 #257
The Age Of 9/11: A riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. With double-plus bipartisanship. blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #258
Better start running the government by the ideals that you taught me. WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2013 #259
No internment camps sulphurdunn Feb 2013 #261
Remember how McCarthy era executed commie sympathizers tama Feb 2013 #263
I love a fucking mystery! lonestarnot Feb 2013 #264
I consider FDR the #2 president of all time, however, What about the Japanese? graham4anything Feb 2013 #276
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