General Discussion

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)

55. Another Kind of Extra-Judicial Killing...

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 06:13 PM

Feb 2013

Oh look it says right in the header that is is another kind or a different kind of extra-judicial killing. Looks like we can compare and contrast them.

I saw a lone DUer assert that snipers are murderers. This was after that famous sniper was murdered. I rather take exception to that. A sniper may be a murderer or a sniper maybe a person that saves the lives of hostages.

Killing US citizens that aren't in the US with drones might be somewhat the same. It could be murder or it could save lives. We really won't know which it is.

I think there needs to be some checks and balances in place on drone killing even if it is after the fact. I don't have a problem so much with the US citizen part. I don't think the life of a US citizen is worth more than the life of any other person. We need this oversight to extend even to non-US citizens IMO.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

81 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Another Kind of Extra-Judicial Killing [View all] MineralMan Feb 2013 OP

They are not extra-judicial. redgreenandblue Feb 2013 #1

They are entirely extra-judicial Recursion Feb 2013 #2

IF they were outside the authority of the court how would it be required that: Vincardog Feb 2013 #9

No, and as we're seeing a drone strike is hardly the end of the process either Recursion Feb 2013 #11

Please link for me the judicial review of these drone strikes. The authority claimed is Vincardog Feb 2013 #14

This was leaked because the Senate subpoenaed it Recursion Feb 2013 #19

What was leaked was the Administration's claim of an legal reasoning behind an unconstitutional Vincardog Feb 2013 #30

Yes, we are. That is what we are seeing right now Recursion Feb 2013 #33

The administration has taken the position . . . markpkessinger Feb 2013 #44

Of course they have. And the Senate is disagreeing Recursion Feb 2013 #52

Imminent threat is not decided by any MineralMan Feb 2013 #3

Correct. 99Forever Feb 2013 #10

I am neither justifying nor condemning anything. MineralMan Feb 2013 #16

If I am directing a comment to you personally... 99Forever Feb 2013 #32

That's funny. MineralMan Feb 2013 #35

Good grief. 99Forever Feb 2013 #58

Take a breath before responding to 99 ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #36

Yah. I edited my post. MineralMan Feb 2013 #37

My problem is with the claim that the Administration can do them without review or oversight. Vincardog Feb 2013 #4

This. redgreenandblue Feb 2013 #7

That's an interesting point. MineralMan Feb 2013 #12

These acts are not limited to the military in a declared war. The authority claimed to Vincardog Feb 2013 #24

Again, you raise good points, for which I have no ready answer. MineralMan Feb 2013 #27

Congress gave up that authority, remember? randome Feb 2013 #31

Wouldn't that oversight and/or review ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #20

Are we to surrender all oversight to the Black Box voting machines? Vincardog Feb 2013 #26

Are we to have any more faith in a bought and paid for judiciary? 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #34

I am arguing that the powers claimed are illegal and unconstitutional. The actions should be Vincardog Feb 2013 #40

Would the actions be constitutional had ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #50

If the "war zone is out-moded" what is the source of the "War Powers"? A Seal Team Vincardog Feb 2013 #57

The source of the War Powers ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #62

Then we must be seeing two different things. The Constitution says only Congress can declare war. Vincardog Feb 2013 #64

. . . and without even necessarily disclosing that they occurred n/t markpkessinger Feb 2013 #47

A ladle of weak sauce whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #5

I'm bringing something up for discussion. MineralMan Feb 2013 #6

every such killing is subject to external oversight and accountability.... mike_c Feb 2013 #8

Actually, there are many levels of MineralMan Feb 2013 #13

except that the Obama administration has just asserted that it is NOT SUBJECT... mike_c Feb 2013 #21

It seems some are deliberately missing you point ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #42

Yes. Anyone with military experience is aware of the review process MineralMan Feb 2013 #45

Black and white thinking ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #51

We know about this because the Senate subpoenaed it Recursion Feb 2013 #22

it was leaked to NBC.... mike_c Feb 2013 #25

After it was delivered to the Senate Recursion Feb 2013 #29

What was leaked was not what the Senate asked for and as Wyden points out... this "white memo" Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #39

Right, but this what the Senate got last summer, so oversight has been going on for a while. Recursion Feb 2013 #41

Wyden finds the memo inadequate thus oversight is hampered. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #49

Yes. It's his job to ask for more, and WHC's job to fight that Recursion Feb 2013 #54

Oversight happens when the person or persons is given adequate information to provide oversight. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #66

DU rec...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #15

The reflexive nature of your recs whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #38

A review is done almost immediately after all... NCTraveler Feb 2013 #17

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #43

By whom? NCTraveler Feb 2013 #68

Two reasons ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #73

I disagree on one point.... NCTraveler Feb 2013 #80

This is almost getting funny. Marr Feb 2013 #18

More like embarrassingly silly. cali Feb 2013 #23

Watching Ardent Supporters� defend this is hilarious leftstreet Feb 2013 #28

The better, more accurate comparison would be ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #56

Huh? The man has already committed the crime of kidnapping and if the local is armed, the Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #67

Maybe ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #70

In regards to level of scrutiny: So it is claimed but neither we nor our representatvies are allowed Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #75

Watched a lot of 24? whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #69

Never seen it ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #71

Did you read the paper??? whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #72

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #74

No, it would be to have them executed on suspicion that he *might* do something someday. Marr Feb 2013 #77

You are reading what is not there ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2013 #79

Quote: Marr Feb 2013 #81

You're still lucky malaise Feb 2013 #46

You appear to have missed the fact that I was talking about MineralMan Feb 2013 #48

I got it but was pointing out that extra-judicial killings are malaise Feb 2013 #65

If the drone pilot makes a mistake, the President can use the power of pardon anyway FarCenter Feb 2013 #53

"So long as the President is reasonably careful in who is on the targeting list" = Orwellian. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #61

Another Kind of Extra-Judicial Killing... Kalidurga Feb 2013 #55

Ignores the concept of imminent danger LittleBlue Feb 2013 #59

I think we have clear evidence that: 1. Pilots are not police; 2. Drone hits aren't sniper-accurate; WinkyDink Feb 2013 #60

yep. barbtries Feb 2013 #63

The purpose of a police sniper shooting a suspect in that situation is not to kill the suspect slackmaster Feb 2013 #76

You are incorrect. MineralMan Feb 2013 #78