General Discussion

The Doctor.

(17,266 posts)

104. That's reasonable, however...

Thu Dec 15, 2011, 06:49 PM

Dec 2011

it's a bit contradictory.

You say;
"I do not think that Obama is himself a Fascist, but when there is so much as a discussion of incarcerating a person for an unlimited time without a trial, without a lawyer, we are talking about a fascist policy."

And then say;
"So, before I buy into your idea of supporting Obama no matter what because he is the better of two sad choices, I want to know whether, by supporting him, I am supporting one or more Fascist policies or not."

I get the very fine distinction you are trying to make. We're talking about a 'fascist' vs. 'one who accepts fascism'. There's barely a boson between them even though you say Obama is not a fascist.

As far as I've seen, Obama has done what he's been allowed to do in terms of good. That's just me though.

The OP was pretty straightforward on this point;

"Again, to head off the inevitable BS: that applies ONLY to those who really think that Obama is no better than any of the Republican candidates or otherwise expresses no intention of voting for or supporting him. So please, if that isn't you, then save it. I have my disappointments in Obama, but I'm not detached enough from reality to think a Republican would be a better choice."

It really is that simple. If you think that Obama is even a hair's breadth better a choice, then, given no other choice, we should see that he remains in office while we attempt to change other facets of this abominable system. If you do not believe he is the better choice, then perhaps it's time to think about another country. I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about it, but so long as Obama is in the WH, a move won't be necessary.

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"If You Don't Want to be Reminded of an Unpleasant Reality, Don't Ask to be Reminded" [View all] The Doctor. Dec 2011 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #1

Fair enough. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #3

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #8

What happens if you find out Hutzpa Dec 2011 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #46

Shouldn't you be channeling that energy toward Hutzpa Dec 2011 #52

This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #67

Agree TBF Dec 2011 #81

You... don't.... want.... a Democratic majority... in Congress... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #105

Oh... koo. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #107

You beat me to that question Hutzpa Dec 2011 #115

If we are going to have.... sendero Dec 2011 #129

"Then he starts yakking progressive" Hutzpa Dec 2011 #155

Why, so we can vote for all the blue dogs he supports? Maven Dec 2011 #108

I don't know where you got that talking point from Hutzpa Dec 2011 #116

Really? Maven Dec 2011 #135

He had HUGE majorities 2009-2011 Doctor_J Dec 2011 #119

That shows a particular ignorance of the facts. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #122

Thanks for proving my point. Doctor_J Dec 2011 #127

Proving your point? Not really. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #174

Republicans are not the only ones who can use the filibuster, are they?? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #191

You're missing a critical piece of the dynamic... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #193

To block Bush legislation is not 'sinking to Republican levels' it is standing up against sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #194

What HUGE majority is that we're talking about? Hutzpa Dec 2011 #125

Bullshit. The " majority " in the Senate was razor thin emulatorloo Dec 2011 #130

It was 59-41, which is not razor thin Doctor_J Dec 2011 #140

Takes 60 votes for Cloture. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #187

Oh please that was one of the largest majorities in history TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #212

The 'fact' is after Obama took office dems had a filibuster-proof majority in Senate only SHORT time Tx4obama Dec 2011 #149

Wrong - much major legislation in the last several decades sidestepped the filibuster eomer Dec 2011 #172

Please elaborate. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #175

Tax the wealthy, make the tax cut on the middle class permanent, and create a public option. eomer Dec 2011 #197

But a bill can only get into 'reconciliation' after the bill's been on the senate floor Tx4obama Dec 2011 #200

No, not true. eomer Dec 2011 #202

Okay, I will back out of this one, because ... Tx4obama Dec 2011 #203

Hey, where are those smilie things when I need them? eomer Dec 2011 #209

Here's a link to the new list of the emoticons, in case you don't have it already Tx4obama Dec 2011 #211

Thanks! eomer Dec 2011 #215

If the Patriot Act saved one life XemaSab Dec 2011 #124

I totally agree with what you're saying Hutzpa Dec 2011 #128

The ACLU doesn't like it dflprincess Dec 2011 #147

Or we can have both, where we have the PATRIOT Act and nuts are free to own guns Doctor_J Dec 2011 #133

There are websites/forums that get a huge thrill out of bashing Obama. MADem Dec 2011 #2

Maybe there is a reason that so many Democratic websites are critical of Obama. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #99

Well, this is pretty much the most vicious "Democratic" website I've seen when it comes to BHO. MADem Dec 2011 #138

Not Satan on a Ritzcracker, but leave a lot to be desired. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #157

When did he sign it? nt gateley Dec 2011 #4

I was under the false impression that he had. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #7

I was trying to find it via Google, but no official reports, so I thought maybe you might know. gateley Dec 2011 #37

Everyone has choices; I�ll respect yours if you respect mine. Cigar11 Dec 2011 #5

Are you talking about during the... Little Star Dec 2011 #6

Never suggested as much. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #9

OK. And.. Little Star Dec 2011 #26

No one should try to stifle criticism or concern. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #39

Well... Little Star Dec 2011 #47

My 'real intent' is in black and white. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #48

Okey, Dokey... Little Star Dec 2011 #49

Bye. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #60

Actually you just did that to me in another subthread. a simple pattern Dec 2011 #59

Then you should learn to communicate. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #61

I think you mean 'ambiguous.' a simple pattern Dec 2011 #65

When you sit on Santa's lap, The Doctor. Dec 2011 #66

You used the wrong word. Look it up. Zhade Dec 2011 #199

that fact is just really irrelevant to a discussion though hfojvt Dec 2011 #63

And yet another person can't be bothered to READ the post they're responding to. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #64

So if you were faced with the choice of voting for one of two Fascists, which would you JDPriestly Dec 2011 #102

That's reasonable, however... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #104

uhm, I responded to post #9 hfojvt Dec 2011 #156

Excellent, hfojvt JDPriestly Dec 2011 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author Remember Me Dec 2011 #89

You created your own Strawman ut oh Dec 2011 #109

For the record, I won't be voting 'for' Obama, I'll be voting 'against' that evil coalition_unwilling Dec 2011 #10

Good Luck Cigar11 Dec 2011 #13

Speaking of being reminded... jtrockville Dec 2011 #11

Does this apply to you? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #14

Maybe. jtrockville Dec 2011 #15

You mean "The" Justice party candidate. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #19

Yep, I mean Anderson. jtrockville Dec 2011 #24

Hey, if you want to do The Doctor. Dec 2011 #41

I'll vote for who I think would make the best President. jtrockville Dec 2011 #69

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #16

I think you assume I'm bitter. I'm not. jtrockville Dec 2011 #23

REMINDER: John McCain and Sarah Palin where the alternatives. Cigar11 Dec 2011 #12

"I'm not telling anyone to 'shut up' or 'keep your opinions to yourself'." yodermon Dec 2011 #17

You're welcome. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #21

I am bitterly disappointed in Obama lapislzi Dec 2011 #18

Most likely anyone wondering about whether to vote for O themadstork Dec 2011 #20

Berating posters to this forum is not the fast track EFerrari Dec 2011 #22

Berating who? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #29

Hello? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #44

When did you become an admin? pintobean Dec 2011 #25

I must have missed it too. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #30

You go ahead and call your convention "vegan" if you want to. a simple pattern Dec 2011 #27

Nice try. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #31

You keep using that word. a simple pattern Dec 2011 #51

It means 'think about'. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #53

It's not shallow. a simple pattern Dec 2011 #57

Yet you have no real proof of that beyond the fact that he had to get past Republican obstruction. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #58

Yep, he preemptively caved his way right on by that Republican "obstruction." a simple pattern Dec 2011 #62

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #170

+1000. kath Dec 2011 #153

So very sad. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #169

Well fuck me for wanting Democrats to act like Democrats. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #28

Cool! We want the same thing! The Doctor. Dec 2011 #33

no, you seem to want peeps to vote Dem no matter what ut oh Dec 2011 #111

Actually, I'm still a registered Republican. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #112

You write and sound like one Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #121

You're not terribly perceptive, are you? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #161

A quick glance turned up the usual "whine", "outrage" and "righteous indignation" talking points. Bonobo Dec 2011 #32

You should read the posts you respond to. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #34

+10000 nt Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #38

Thanks for chiming in! Hey... do me a favor... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #40

I personally found the tone of the op very condescending. Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #72

Funny thing that; The Doctor. Dec 2011 #92

I read the post Mojorabbit Dec 2011 #114

I didn't write it to 'change anyone's mind'. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #168

It's alright to express an opinion if it is hidden? midnight Dec 2011 #35

I have a suggestion; The Doctor. Dec 2011 #36

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #42

Likely that would be The Doctor. Dec 2011 #43

Well, I'm fairly confident that most Either/Or scenarios we're presented with... LanternWaste Dec 2011 #50

"If you don't brush your teeth, you'll lose them." The Doctor. Dec 2011 #55

I don't think it's my confidence that's misplaced-- merely the prognostications of the few. LanternWaste Dec 2011 #74

So it's 'biased' to believe that not brushing your teeth is bad for them? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #85

Sounds great TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #213

Did a search - couldn't find anyone asking you to tell them how to vote. kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #54

Please learn to read the posts you respond to. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #56

Sounds reasonable Beavker Dec 2011 #68

Thanks for putting (most) of my feelings into words! Wait Wut Dec 2011 #70

K&R. It's entertaining to watch The Doctor. surgically dismiss non sequiturs. great white snark Dec 2011 #71

It's actually kind of sad. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #82

Oh they're here. ElboRuum Dec 2011 #146

Unfair! Unfair!! Yer being logical! That's oppressive to non-logic. Isn't that a TOS violation? TygrBright Dec 2011 #73

I still have the quaint notion that my vote belongs to me. Not the party or any politician. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #75

No one should tell you otherwise. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #77

TL;DR Fumesucker Dec 2011 #76

ditto i_sometimes Dec 2011 #78

I give as I get. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #80

lol i_sometimes Dec 2011 #84

When you admit to ignorance, The Doctor. Dec 2011 #86

You have a nice day too. i_sometimes Dec 2011 #91

You mean: "TL;DI" The Doctor. Dec 2011 #79

I read plenty of long things.. Fumesucker Dec 2011 #90

Aren't you a big boy! The Doctor. Dec 2011 #93

It takes time and effort to make a post short and succinct.. Fumesucker Dec 2011 #110

So, you cite a major manipulator and suggest I should 'do as he does'. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #113

What about legitimate disagreement? How will it be treated? mmonk Dec 2011 #83

*Sigh* The Doctor. Dec 2011 #87

Just wondering. mmonk Dec 2011 #103

S'ok. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #106

I don't think we elected The Doctor i_sometimes Dec 2011 #137

No one elected me. WTH are you talking about? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #178

Hmm... i_sometimes Dec 2011 #206

Get rid of the idiots in Congress, too Aerows Dec 2011 #88

That's fair. Hard to disagree. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #94

I know. Aerows Dec 2011 #95

Nail, Hammer, *thwack*. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #98

Same applies to all offices. TheKentuckian Dec 2011 #214

I would just like to see the language in the bill. JDPriestly Dec 2011 #97

Here's the full bill.. SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #101

The LAST thing I want is a Republican President. bvar22 Dec 2011 #117

That's a fair point. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #167

He killed habeus corpus. Deep13 Dec 2011 #118

So we're just 'making shit up' now? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #166

Nope. nt Deep13 Dec 2011 #204

You have chosen to ignore that some of the most ardent bashing of Dems has come from Doctor_J Dec 2011 #120

Anyone ProSense Dec 2011 #123

To your second point: Please keep reminding people that the next tblue37 Dec 2011 #126

if a Republican becomes president THEN people will regain perspective!! StarsInHerHair Dec 2011 #145

WORD. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #165

An unpleasant reality! green917 Dec 2011 #131

I, for one, completely believe you when you say 'Barack Hussein Obama'. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #164

I'm not sure what you're insinuating with this post green917 Dec 2011 #201

I agree with what you have said. gtar100 Dec 2011 #132

K and R DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #134

K/R...thanks, n/t bonzotex Dec 2011 #136

It is not authoritarian to tell people what your own choices are and expect them to patrice Dec 2011 #139

Sounds like we're on the same page. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #162

wish I could give this 100 recs BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2011 #141

I will express my disagreement with the President 4dsc Dec 2011 #142

It does seem that way. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #171

Nice rantrum. nt Javaman Dec 2011 #143

Notsomuch. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #163

one persons lecture is another persons tantrum. nt Javaman Dec 2011 #173

Again, notsomuch. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #192

I love when people quote the dictionary... Javaman Dec 2011 #195

Especially when they don't know the diiference between "ambivalent" and "ambiguous"! Zhade Dec 2011 #210

K&R! Grateful for Hope Dec 2011 #144

yes, we all know we have no choice but to vote for him Skittles Dec 2011 #148

Wrong. You definitely have a choice. If you had read the OP The Doctor. Dec 2011 #159

WTF Skittles Dec 2011 #205

Funny how even those i_sometimes Dec 2011 #207

The Republican boogeyman is getting stale arendt Dec 2011 #150

Great post, Arendt! kath Dec 2011 #154

The OP addresses that. Did you read it, or just go by the responses? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #158

awesome post! LaydeeBug Dec 2011 #177

This thread is chock full of great metaphors Doctor_J Dec 2011 #182

Kicked and rec'd. n/t Tx4obama Dec 2011 #151

Thanks Dr. for the prescription... Historic NY Dec 2011 #152

I think we could replace him and still beat the Republicans. caseymoz Dec 2011 #160

yep. barbtries Dec 2011 #176

I am a Democrat who believes we can wear our big boy pants and handle a little criticism. Dustlawyer Dec 2011 #179

Good. Nothing wrong with criticism at all. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #183

Frogs in a slow- heating pot ... bread_and_roses Dec 2011 #180

No, he's not...where's that unrec button when you need it! joeybee12 Dec 2011 #181

What are you talking about? Who's not what? The Doctor. Dec 2011 #184

The OP has posted 61 times in his own thread. kath Dec 2011 #185

I prefer the hit-and-run tactic, you're right. Robb Dec 2011 #186

Well, there's a happy medium somewhere, and this sure ain't it. kath Dec 2011 #188

And yet people can't seem to resist... The Doctor. Dec 2011 #190

You just forced me to post in your thread! Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #198

Woo Hoo! The Doctor. Dec 2011 #189

Not really. i_sometimes Dec 2011 #208

When the "unpleasantness" is based on spin and hero worship... Zhade Dec 2011 #196