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libdem4life

(13,877 posts)

179. Iatrogenic Deaths are Rampant...but I don't knock or mock Modern Medicine.It's just not all there is

Fri Feb 8, 2013, 02:46 PM

Feb 2013

These figures are staggering, well-known, and not just hearsay.

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/medicine/usamed/deaths.htm

Table Of Iatrogenic Deaths In The United States
(Deaths induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures)
Condition Deaths Cost Author
Adverse Drug Reactions 106,000 $12 billion Lazarou (1) Suh (49)
Medical error 98,000 $2 billion IOM (6)
Bedsores 115,000 $55 billion Xakellis (7) Barczak (8)
Infection 88,000 $5 billion Weinstein (9) MMWR (10)
Malnutrition 108,800 — Nurses Coalition (11)
Outpatients 199,000 $77 billion Starfield ( 12) Weingart (1, 12)
Unnecessary Procedures 37,136 $122 billion HCUP(3, 13)
There are a few more graphs and deaths, at the link.Surgery-Related 32,000 $9 billion AHRQ(8,5)
TOTAL 783,936 $282 billion

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Do you use Homeopathic "remedies"? Do you understand just what it is you are taking? [View all] cleanhippie Feb 2013 OP

People often buy things that statistically cause them more harm than good. Robb Feb 2013 #1

Perhaps, but homeopathy is proven to be false. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #3

Applying common sense to either would save lives. Robb Feb 2013 #6

Maybe, but I want to bring attention to the scam that is Homepathy. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #12

I appreciate your efforts to help educate people. eShirl Feb 2013 #67

Agreed, these terms are not interchangeable. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #69

So your point is to decry what a 'sham and scam' homeopathy is. icymist Feb 2013 #215

Really? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #233

I'm not sure, But I am sure of what it isn't; science based medicine. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #244

Homeopathic medicine is water. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #276

Look now. I don't really care what you guys think. icymist Feb 2013 #299

+1! bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #300

Respect? You want respect for ignoring reality? Really? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #301

umm. a belief in god defies reality. but I still respect people who believe in god. robinlynne Feb 2013 #302

I too, respect people who believe in a god. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #303

Yes, I see that A LOT on here obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #126

That's what I always thought. Good to know. cui bono Feb 2013 #242

That's not true, as far as I know. Modern medicine is derived from homemade plant medications Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #305

...a LOT of cayenne pepper. Hardly homeopathic. SwissTony Feb 2013 #306

I think that you may be mistaken on what "homeopathy" actually is. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #308

But But But... "Water has mem'ry!!!!" Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #2

Agreed. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #4

"Molecular memory" has caused me more bruised foreheads than any other phrase Recursion Feb 2013 #7

A mean prank just came to my mind: DetlefK Feb 2013 #10

I was just going to write something about oceans and pissing ;) Democracyinkind Feb 2013 #31

Aha! But that's not what homeopathy says. longship Feb 2013 #32

Not to mention the whole problem of "in some patients" MattBaggins Feb 2013 #98

I've been studying the history of homeopathy in America - it's actually rather fascinating derby378 Feb 2013 #5

Didn't the "pro-science" wing turn into osteopathy? Recursion Feb 2013 #8

Osteopathy grew out of the chriopractic movement, I think derby378 Feb 2013 #11

It is quite fascinating. And the way people have been duped into believing it works is not unlike cleanhippie Feb 2013 #13

I'm always on the lookout for someone proposing a return to humorism. FSogol Feb 2013 #9

We read Galen in college. It's actually kind of fascinating Recursion Feb 2013 #14

I'll do you one better: Trepanation name not needed Feb 2013 #279

Heh-heh from Wiki: FSogol Feb 2013 #286

Anyone here used Arnica Montana to control swelling after surgery? Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #15

I think that would be considered "natural" medicine, not homeopathy. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #16

There are homeopathic preparations of Arnica Montana. Heidi Feb 2013 #19

I would feel differently about an extract of AM, but any Homeopathic version is cause for alarm. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #20

Exactly. Heidi Feb 2013 #21

Good morning to you, Heidi! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author Heidi Feb 2013 #40

There are homeopathic preparations of dog shit... SidDithers Feb 2013 #86

What is that supposed to treat? Incontinence? eShirl Feb 2013 #91

! Heidi Feb 2013 #164

Agreed timdog44 Feb 2013 #255

You treat Republicanism with it? jmowreader Feb 2013 #252

Nailed it!...nt SidDithers Feb 2013 #260

A Friend Used Only AM After Surgery otohara Feb 2013 #197

I had a coronary bypass two summers ago MattBaggins Feb 2013 #214

I have used Arnica bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #54

Do you have a double blind study to support the claim MattBaggins Feb 2013 #181

Nope, sorry.. bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #188

Not even remotely MattBaggins Feb 2013 #192

You obviously need a blind study bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #199

This is about Science MattBaggins Feb 2013 #208

What exactly do you mean bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #258

I did not mean like that MattBaggins Feb 2013 #262

no obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #227

I've used it on my foot Retrograde Feb 2013 #177

Try it- you might be surprised! ellaydubya Feb 2013 #278

I use arnica Dorian Gray Feb 2013 #288

I use homeopathetic eye drops. Atman Feb 2013 #17

Could you not get the same result from using a saline solution instead? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #18

I don't deny that it seems goofy. Atman Feb 2013 #23

I agree with your disdain of chemicals in Visine. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #28

you are now giving medical advice JanMichael Feb 2013 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author cleanhippie Feb 2013 #39

Not only have I been at DU since almost JanMichael Feb 2013 #44

Who cares how long you have been here or who you know. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #48

you deleted it, but you accused me of "trolling" JanMichael Feb 2013 #53

No, you made an inference, I implied no such thing. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #59

You wrote "go troll another thread." Of course you are "done." JanMichael Feb 2013 #63

Good for you! Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate it. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #65

+1 green for victory Feb 2013 #73

Discussing the relative merits of OTC products is not kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #99

He knows that. Most would recognize ridiculous comments like that for what they are. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #105

ahhhh there's that word again JanMichael Feb 2013 #108

Never denied using the word "trolling." cleanhippie Feb 2013 #112

you most certainly did. The problem is that you did not delete JanMichael Feb 2013 #116

Yawn. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #118

You are aware as a Feline Veterinarian that the term "medical advice" JanMichael Feb 2013 #113

Ok, thank you for your concern. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #120

You would rather drop a chemical in your eye than drop a chemical in your eye? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #26

What is confusing you? Atman Feb 2013 #34

Mercurius sublimatus in similason dry eyes remedy MattBaggins Feb 2013 #42

Are you reading the same website I am? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #56

Yeah, that was kind of my point. Atman Feb 2013 #70

I have a degree in biology MattBaggins Feb 2013 #76

Ahh, I see. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #78

The point is MattBaggins Feb 2013 #85

I agree, but don't you think people are implying a slightly different meaning? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #102

You Are Much Nicer RobinA Feb 2013 #140

What do you care bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #58

Homeopathy is not just some innocent form of CAM MattBaggins Feb 2013 #83

So everything that is FDA approved bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #88

bzzzzt... wrong answer MattBaggins Feb 2013 #90

Yea, way to avoid the question.. bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #92

It wasn't a true question MattBaggins Feb 2013 #95

Your "question" is ridiculous and deserves nothing more than what it got. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #107

I didn't realize that diluted opiates weren't chemicals CreekDog Feb 2013 #51

To be fair, in a homeopathic application, there would be no chemicals at all. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #52

Water's a chemical in itself... derby378 Feb 2013 #80

Very true! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #101

It also rots pipes and fish make love in it. That's why I won't drink it or put it in my eyes. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #316

Can I suggest a little lemon? (n/t) derby378 Feb 2013 #317

What difference does it make to you? JanMichael Feb 2013 #22

I always wait for the next shoe.... Junkdrawer Feb 2013 #24

No kidding...we are the two biggest skeptics we know JanMichael Feb 2013 #29

You think homeopathic medicines are less likely to use mercury? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #45

Well, they are less likely to use ANYTHING at all. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #49

Agreed. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #30

Yep...the language, tone etc. just screams JanMichael Feb 2013 #33

I know. What's the harm? longship Feb 2013 #37

Adults are free to choose which treatment to use. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2013 #226

Arrogance? longship Feb 2013 #265

It can be scary when one of your family members choses homeopathic over traditional medicine liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #43

And that is incredibly sad. However, his decision JanMichael Feb 2013 #46

Incorrect MattBaggins Feb 2013 #109

Lots of people "use my tax money" (god, that is JanMichael Feb 2013 #143

We only have so much money to use and can't afford to waste it on crap MattBaggins Feb 2013 #149

"WE only have so much money...." JanMichael Feb 2013 #173

You have no interest in an honest assessment of Homeopathy MattBaggins Feb 2013 #176

really. My wife was a paramedic, and is now a librarian JanMichael Feb 2013 #180

Unlike you I support the role of the FDA MattBaggins Feb 2013 #183

and how in the world did you get that JanMichael Feb 2013 #190

You were making things up MattBaggins Feb 2013 #194

I haven't made anything up. I have stated repeatedly JanMichael Feb 2013 #207

Don't read them then MattBaggins Feb 2013 #209

+1 bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #154

How do people make decisions without information? Silent3 Feb 2013 #264

I don't care how people spend their money. I do care that ignorant people are being scammed. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #309

"Frankly, people who use them are not harming you, so what is the issue? " cleanhippie Feb 2013 #36

at least two of us here knew you were going to bring up vaccines JanMichael Feb 2013 #38

Ok. Thank you for your opinion. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #41

Lying about medical properties of your product is inherently harmful. Scootaloo Feb 2013 #133

Labeling is required on all the packages JanMichael Feb 2013 #184

Because I hate the propagation of stupidity in our society Scootaloo Feb 2013 #196

OK JanMichael Feb 2013 #202

There's a world beyond DU Scootaloo Feb 2013 #212

I think we should realize the same is true of baptism (and holy water if catholic) Dragonfli Feb 2013 #292

What in the world makes you think I draw an exception for religion? Scootaloo Feb 2013 #304

You are on the money MattBaggins Feb 2013 #204

It's not a matter of not harming people personally. Dash87 Feb 2013 #240

And fake "medications" *do* harm people, anyway. Posteritatis Feb 2013 #291

It's not harming you that cleanhippie keeps bring this up, so what's the issue? Orrex Feb 2013 #271

No, I use herbs and nutrition. I went to a homeopath once, when I was like 22, and Zorra Feb 2013 #27

Why not? Gold isn't going to hurt you MattBaggins Feb 2013 #47

You'd be safe. Homeopathic gold solution is like all other kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #100

hahahahaha obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #128

So to keep things interesting (since some posters don't want you to talk about this)... randome Feb 2013 #50

LOL (n/t) athena Feb 2013 #228

Capsasin/Cayenne pep. diluted with cold cream for the feets. Apply 3X in 1 hour with socks. ahhhhh. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #55

Do you make that yourself? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #57

Yes. 1 teaspoon red pep to 1 small jar ponds cold cream (not the big un.) :) lonestarnot Feb 2013 #60

Sounds interesting. Ill give it a try. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #61

Removes inflamation. Careful with the insteps, they are more sensative. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #62

Thank you for this me b zola Feb 2013 #129

You are welcome dearie. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #281

That doesn't sound like a homeopathic "medicine" to me. eShirl Feb 2013 #64

Whatever. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #66

Just wondering why it's posted in a thread about homeopathy? eShirl Feb 2013 #68

Keep wondering then. Why are you shitting on this thread? lonestarnot Feb 2013 #71

I'm not. Why are you shitting on me? eShirl Feb 2013 #72

If you mix up some crap yourself and you can't by it, it's homeopathic by my definition and you lonestarnot Feb 2013 #75

I know. WTF. eShirl Feb 2013 #79

Maybe a less controversial word for what you prepared would be "home remedy", not homeopathic? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #121

WTF, indeed, you are arguing because you cannot be bothered to learn what homeopathy means....? xocet Feb 2013 #235

You probably won't want to sell cars for a living then. What? I have to look up homeopathic to lonestarnot Feb 2013 #282

My problem isn't with you, or with people who buy & use homeo products knowing what they're buying. eShirl Feb 2013 #284

I see. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #294

No, what you have to do is read the OP - the definition is there muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #289

I did and I dilute red pepper with cold cream. I don't call myself walgreens. So there is an lonestarnot Feb 2013 #295

If you prefer your ignorance, please continue. n/t xocet Feb 2013 #313

You apparently prefer being annoyed. Have at it pal. I can help you if you like. Snort lonestarnot Feb 2013 #314

He's actually right. That's a home remedy, not homeopathy. Dash87 Feb 2013 #296

You know that feeling in your throat you get just before a cold? randr Feb 2013 #74

A tincture is not the same thing as a homeopathic "remedy." cleanhippie Feb 2013 #77

Did you test this to make sure you were not just experiencing MattBaggins Feb 2013 #89

That proves nothing. athena Feb 2013 #222

The amount of ignorance on this thread is astonishing to me Nancy Waterman Feb 2013 #81

Thank you.. bama_blue_dot Feb 2013 #84

This is exactly why homeopathy should be declared illegal MattBaggins Feb 2013 #93

You do know that in a 30C potency, there's not a single molecule left in the solution?... SidDithers Feb 2013 #96

Wow. While ignoring the basic laws of mathematics, you accuse others of being ignorant. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #103

I agree - I use homepathy womanofthehills Feb 2013 #106

"If you have never tried homeopathy, why put it down so vehemently." Because it is bunk bullshit. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #110

Works big time at what? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #125

I drink a Reed's Ginger Reed obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #135

Who is this Doctor? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #169

Well, water IS hydrating, and the placebo effect is real obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #132

Please look at the evidence before your favoured treatments kill again intaglio Feb 2013 #219

I buy my arnica in a cream and rub it on my boo's .... MindMover Feb 2013 #267

Take these things into consideration: Dash87 Feb 2013 #297

Also, many, many, many people get Homeopathic mixed up with Naturopathic... SidDithers Feb 2013 #82

And the defenders appear in 3 - 2 - 1 GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #87

Thank you!! GoCubsGo Feb 2013 #136

I prefer to use science and doctors to cure what ails me. Apophis Feb 2013 #94

They are sold at Whole Foods by people with dreadlocks and Che Guevara t-shirts Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #97

Winner! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #104

Homeopathy is 100% unmitigated bullshit. No question. Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #139

Latte sipping arugula munchers demanding abortions on their way to a save the whales pot rally! Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #134

LOL laundry_queen Feb 2013 #171

The real question to me is what to do about it. Should it be illegal? DanTex Feb 2013 #111

I do not have the answer to that, but there certainly IS harm. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #114

Is there any quantifiable evidence of the harm that homeopathy causes? DanTex Feb 2013 #122

"What is harmful is when people forgo actual medical treatments and use homeopathy instead" cleanhippie Feb 2013 #124

Is it illegal to mislabel a product or lie to consumers about what a product does? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #127

I would assume there has to be some disclaimer on the packaging about how the claims are not tested. DanTex Feb 2013 #147

Right there under drug facts MattBaggins Feb 2013 #152

"According to homeopathic principles"... DanTex Feb 2013 #163

which go away on their own, can be sold without a prescription MattBaggins Feb 2013 #167

"marketing that preys on the ignorant" laundry_queen Feb 2013 #172

You know, I'm open to that idea! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #174

Yes. It's a scam... SidDithers Feb 2013 #115

It's kind of a scam, but also kind of not. DanTex Feb 2013 #123

They lie to the consumer about what "ailments" it will relieve MattBaggins Feb 2013 #131

People claimed turn-of-the-20th-century patent medicines helped, too Posteritatis Feb 2013 #293

I drink close to a gallon of water a day, so yes obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #117

+1 cleanhippie Feb 2013 #119

Why Does Homeopathy Attract So Much Controversy? dooner Feb 2013 #130

Award for most bullshit study of the day MattBaggins Feb 2013 #141

There is no controversy over the efficacy of homeopathy. None. At. All. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #162

Did you even READ the nonsense contained on the link you provided? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #166

Even if it's placebo... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #137

Because it turns the ignorant away from real medicine, and in the end, that harms us all. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #148

Excuse me... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #182

Then it needs to be clearly labeled as such: PLACEBO EFFECT. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #191

That would be enough to keep it from working! JuniperLea Feb 2013 #243

Uh, because "People do know what they are taking"? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #248

That argument makes no sense. Dash87 Feb 2013 #298

That's the whole point. It's essentially faith healing, marketed as herbal remedies. eShirl Feb 2013 #151

Placebo effect is real... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #186

You are simply not correct MattBaggins Feb 2013 #218

Con artists selling people the power of their own minds = $$$ eShirl Feb 2013 #224

Same goes for any worthless gadget in the world JuniperLea Feb 2013 #247

As long as people KNOW what they're buying (a "worthless gadget" or "voodoo") fine. eShirl Feb 2013 #259

I partly agree with you. DanTex Feb 2013 #221

Placebos may need regulated too... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #245

Homeopathic medicine is energy medicine. Most Americans don't understand that...it is clear here. libdem4life Feb 2013 #138

Energy medicine... lol MattBaggins Feb 2013 #142

Energy medicine? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #145

Ahahahahaha.... SidDithers Feb 2013 #146

I see what you did there AngryAmish Feb 2013 #155

OMG obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #160

The key word - Anecdotes - And Energy Medicine? Really? GoneOffShore Feb 2013 #217

Simple yes or no... Does HiV cause AIDS? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #273

I thought I was corresponding withan intelligent being. My bad. Are you for Fu## real? libdem4life Feb 2013 #274

I asked you for your opinion on the virus and said nothing about homosexuality. MattBaggins Feb 2013 #275

AIDS and Iatrogenic death statistics??? This is not about some guy's junk. Get a life, Dude. libdem4life Feb 2013 #277

Why are you done? MattBaggins Feb 2013 #280

I'm a huge believer in naturopathy or herbology, but homeopathy is 100% BS n/t librechik Feb 2013 #144

Naturopathy is as woowoo as homeopathy MattBaggins Feb 2013 #165

And no homeopathy thread is complete without Mitchell and Webb... SidDithers Feb 2013 #150

James Randi just posted an article about this! obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #153

How funny! I just posted it! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #156

lol obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #161

I try to minimize my use of French but "Doctor" Oz is a fucking idiot. MattBaggins Feb 2013 #157

He is a highly respected cardiologist obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #158

No, that's all a buncha hogwash! But my crystal skull really works! Blecht Feb 2013 #159

Love it... SidDithers Feb 2013 #168

Woo medicine ruins lives Prism Feb 2013 #170

+infinity MattBaggins Feb 2013 #189

Reminds me of the days when doctors who washed their hands were considered Quacks. libdem4life Feb 2013 #175

You make good points, but when it comes to homeopathy, I think the verdict is in. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #178

I respect your opinion, but it flies in the face of mine and many other's experience. libdem4life Feb 2013 #193

Stop trying to use Europe to bolster homeopathy MattBaggins Feb 2013 #213

Just depends on who you choose to read. All the Medical Associations are trying to get rid of it. libdem4life Feb 2013 #220

No it does not work no matter how you use it MattBaggins Feb 2013 #223

Thank you for the sane post. zappaman Feb 2013 #229

Confusing.. MattBaggins Feb 2013 #210

First an idea is laughed at, then it is studied, then it is accepted as truth libdem4life Feb 2013 #225

The answer to the problems in medicine MattBaggins Feb 2013 #232

Accupuncture? Are you kidding me? Kaiser Permanente pays for it. libdem4life Feb 2013 #234

Bullshit they don't pay for things that don't work MattBaggins Feb 2013 #236

Homeopathy is not handwashing jmowreader Feb 2013 #257

Hylands remedy for colic costs a couple of bucks. Get off your hysteria and ask a parent with a new libdem4life Feb 2013 #266

Sugar water works and you have the stuff for that jmowreader Feb 2013 #283

They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers... SidDithers Feb 2013 #261

Okey dokey. Please, proceed... libdem4life Feb 2013 #268

Translation: you are wearing the floppy shoes. n/t xocet Feb 2013 #310

Iatrogenic Deaths are Rampant...but I don't knock or mock Modern Medicine.It's just not all there is libdem4life Feb 2013 #179

I don't understand what that has to do with homeopathy. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #185

You don't!? JanMichael Feb 2013 #187

For someone who thinks that time on DU and knowing the admins lends credibility cleanhippie Feb 2013 #200

All these dire warnings about the danger of homeopathy ...these are figures of the dangers of libdem4life Feb 2013 #195

Indeed, and homeopathy plays a part in those numbers. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #201

I don't see where any other method would significantly contribute. libdem4life Feb 2013 #216

But we agree! cleanhippie Feb 2013 #246

Education, yes. I don't know about safer...it's worked for me and mine for decades. libdem4life Feb 2013 #270

The statistics are of iatrogenic deaths...conditions the patient did not have when they began libdem4life Feb 2013 #231

Of course homeopathy could be involved. MattBaggins Feb 2013 #237

I am sorry to be so harsh but so far MattBaggins Feb 2013 #238

That's OK...I don't take it personally. I've had this conversation many times. Mostly friends and libdem4life Feb 2013 #250

This goes beyond that MattBaggins Feb 2013 #253

By definition...the people didn't have the condition they died with BEFORE entering the medical libdem4life Feb 2013 #241

Perhaps that word doesn't mean what you think it means. MattBaggins Feb 2013 #254

Don't argue with me...it's statistics. It's your own folks reporting this. Not the "wackos". libdem4life Feb 2013 #269

By the way did the unibomber write that site? UPDATE numbers are BS MattBaggins Feb 2013 #272

Comes off a bit pompous oberliner Feb 2013 #198

Perhaps, but it is effective. And factual. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #203

Rubbed me the wrong way oberliner Feb 2013 #205

Dawkins seems to have that effect on many. cleanhippie Feb 2013 #206

Ben Goldacre would be a better choice MattBaggins Feb 2013 #211

I like his writing better than his videos oberliner Feb 2013 #239

Water. With memory. Taverner Feb 2013 #230

IT'S GOT WHAT HOMEOPATHS CRAVE! n/t xocet Feb 2013 #311

I use homeopathic remedies all the time and they work great jmowreader Feb 2013 #249

+1!!!1 cleanhippie Feb 2013 #251

Excellent! obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #263

If you make it JNelson6563 Feb 2013 #256

Holy crap. Off topic, but I begin to see how some people get such high post counts.... Thor_MN Feb 2013 #285

agreed! eShirl Feb 2013 #287

Not really off topic. It is the fact that companies prey on the ignorant, and keeping them ignorant cleanhippie Feb 2013 #290

Here is an example of the reinforcement of the ignorance of the masses.... xocet Feb 2013 #312

Haven't seen this mentioned in this thread but James Randi and others "overdosed"... SwissTony Feb 2013 #307

Yes I drink lots of water RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #315