General Discussion

FreeJoe

(1,039 posts)

219. You misunderstood my post

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:00 PM

Feb 2013

I was referring to the prior poster's rather definitive comment "If you have relied only on a 401k to fund your retirement you haven't prepared for retirement." While I agree that 401Ks make for lousy social policy and are not the way the nation should fund its retirements, you cannot accurately make a blanket statement as he did. There really are people that put a lot of money into a 401K and retire successfully off of it. They are the minority, but they exist.

As this post (http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=110635&newpost=1610019) on the Boglehead's forum shows, there are some people that really do shove $50K/year into a 401K.

As for who makes 50K a year anymore, that is slightly less than the median household income in the US, so I would venture to say that half of the households do.

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401Ks are a disaster: Column [View all] phantom power Feb 2013 OP

We will have a greater need for social security in the future than we do now because liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #1

those folk had the rules changed on them mid-game Skittles Feb 2013 #2

my husband and I started out with a company 401(k) liberal_at_heart Feb 2013 #4

401Ks were meant to supplement pensions and social security Skittles Feb 2013 #8

The 90s boom faked ppl out Johonny Feb 2013 #18

actually 401ks were promoted so that they *could* ditch pensions. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #49

Skittles is right. They were originally meant to marybourg Feb 2013 #54

they were promoted to the general public so that pensions could be ditched. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #58

Maybe I have a longer memory than you. marybourg Feb 2013 #59

i doubt it. maybe you are just more naive. HiPointDem Feb 2013 #60

Actually personal experience, and age. marybourg Feb 2013 #68

i also have personal experience, and age. most people do, in proportion to their years. i have HiPointDem Feb 2013 #73

The reality is that many corporations that promised pensions question everything Feb 2013 #69

they purposefully bankrupted themselves in order to ditch pensions, in many cases. i can't HiPointDem Feb 2013 #72

Not so much 30 years ago sendero Feb 2013 #210

bankruptcy for profit has been going on for eons. you can see the shape of it back in the time HiPointDem Feb 2013 #221

I have the same memory as you, maryb Skittles Feb 2013 #87

That's probably because we're old enough to remember marybourg Feb 2013 #93

CORRECT! Skittles Feb 2013 #148

They were also promoted as the a portable pension approach ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #196

That was how I considered my 401k. A supplement. LiberalFighter Feb 2013 #83

Exactly. The 401(k) was introduced in the 70s as a supplement for the executive class Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #143

Excellent point about the stagnation of wages and inability to contribute to plans suffragette Feb 2013 #204

And even those who dutifully contributed to their 401Ks saw their $$ go straight to hell at least Nay Feb 2013 #144

It sure is a big win for corporations laundry_queen Feb 2013 #3

That would be me. jonthebru Feb 2013 #5

401(k)s only work if you're an amazing prognosticator. HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #6

They only "work" if you are extremely highly paid; after all, they were set up originally duffyduff Feb 2013 #24

I don't really agree FreeJoe Feb 2013 #66

That is basically what I said. They were NEVER intended as that, duffyduff Feb 2013 #96

They are somewhat interchangeable FreeJoe Feb 2013 #99

Not in reality zipplewrath Feb 2013 #112

My experience is different FreeJoe Feb 2013 #133

I notice you said "we" zipplewrath Feb 2013 #171

I think that we basically agree FreeJoe Feb 2013 #209

Message auto-removed Icecream man Feb 2013 #213

So the solution is lose your home now so you can retire later? uppityperson Feb 2013 #215

Message auto-removed Icecream man Feb 2013 #220

OK Mr. 9 posts who joined DU yesterday..... llmart Feb 2013 #224

I don't think you meant to reply to me FreeJoe Feb 2013 #222

"Recent and near-retirees"---Wait! I thought the Baby Boomers were living the Life of Reilly on the WinkyDink Feb 2013 #7

Well, we are indeed living the good life ... JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2013 #11

yup Skittles Feb 2013 #12

It's been a long-range plan, mon ami, from ca. 1935. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #14

Precisely Sherman A1 Feb 2013 #9

i'm kind of glad barbtries Feb 2013 #10

me too, barbtries!! Skittles Feb 2013 #13

exactly. barbtries Feb 2013 #16

Yup, die at work, that's what I say- That way, there'll be someone around to deal with it NBachers Feb 2013 #81

And once they get their hands on SS... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2013 #27

Well, if you're going the Grand Canyon route.... RagAss Feb 2013 #38

Yep that would me my inclination too.......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2013 #40

Definitely. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2013 #71

They are a union busting trap libtodeath Feb 2013 #15

I remember when they were introduced Lydia Leftcoast Feb 2013 #22

i remember that too. we had one of those information sessions and were supposed to choose HiPointDem Feb 2013 #50

You're aware that you can shift your investments, aren't you? brooklynite Feb 2013 #164

Now a million isn't enough spinbaby Feb 2013 #97

I remember hearing that "millionaire story" too Art_from_Ark Feb 2013 #141

I remember when they were introduced as well. Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #190

That's about the best analogy.... ReRe Feb 2013 #35

thankfully my husband worked a union job riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #41

And a hostage for Wall Street. moondust Feb 2013 #63

Right. dawg Feb 2013 #189

It was just another attack in the class war. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #17

They wanted to privatize Social Security in favor of a 401(k)-style plan.... lastlib Feb 2013 #25

It doesn't matter whether we go for it or not... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2013 #29

I'm often surprised by the amount of anti-pension sentiment here on DU Ratty Feb 2013 #19

Exactly YoungDemCA Feb 2013 #21

me too, and I agree completely.... mike_c Feb 2013 #30

It shouldn't surprise you... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2013 #31

I wish I had a pension nt abelenkpe Feb 2013 #33

Well.. its because we as state taxpayers are paying for your "nice" pension.. DCBob Feb 2013 #44

Taxes paid for govt workers' compensation, of which pensions are one deferred part. Gidney N Cloyd Feb 2013 #65

I was waiting for somebody to post something like this.... Bigmack Feb 2013 #70

Hell, yes. Nevernose Feb 2013 #137

+1 Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #161

+1 nt Live and Learn Feb 2013 #199

So you've fallen for the script? Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #82

Is it also "stupid" to note that states are going bankrupt trying meet their pension liabilities. DCBob Feb 2013 #90

Yes. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #94

Well at least you didnt directly call me stupid.. DCBob Feb 2013 #95

At least you didn't call working American's thieves. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #103

"greedy thieves" WTF?? DCBob Feb 2013 #104

The pension obligation shortfalls are certainly a burden but the pension systems didn't cause it. Gidney N Cloyd Feb 2013 #117

Still not getting it. Or just refusing to admit. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #121

I think there are many Democratic governors who agree with my statements. DCBob Feb 2013 #123

no, it's bullshit shanti Feb 2013 #134

DCBob, you need to understand that a pension is not a "gift" or "bonus" tblue37 Feb 2013 #150

Well there wouldnt be a problem if it worked the way you described. DCBob Feb 2013 #152

When my sister�s 3 kids were very young, from infancy to elementary tblue37 Feb 2013 #157

You've gone way past the level where you could be considered just uninformed. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #182

The poster you are responding to JanMichael Feb 2013 #154

They fall for it or they support it. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #183

Exactly. n/t duffyduff Feb 2013 #187

Ooooh. Yet another corporate line and lie. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #181

People think that because they have taken a hit or that they never had a pension, duffyduff Feb 2013 #188

We were heading toward that Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #198

They are going bankrupt LondonReign2 Feb 2013 #160

That funding point it certainly true for my pension Ratty Feb 2013 #170

The part that bothers me most, though, is the lie that tblue37 Feb 2013 #191

That's simply wrong. The state pensions were funded by deferred earnings of state workers. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #193

No, you're paying for a functional government... Hippo_Tron Feb 2013 #195

no i'm pretty sure it's because of something that actually causes that lancoholic Feb 2013 #206

Funding FreeJoe Feb 2013 #67

Bingo. SheilaT Feb 2013 #86

after reading this report I agree with your observatiion, I thought 401k would be good for most uponit7771 Feb 2013 #102

kick Liberal_in_LA Feb 2013 #20

LOL, I was at Data General in the early '80s when they rolled out their 401K program. It Flatulo Feb 2013 #23

k&r Starry Messenger Feb 2013 #26

401K programs are another get richer scheme for the managing organization. liberal N proud Feb 2013 #28

401Ks and Health Savings Accounts Teamster Jeff Feb 2013 #32

The road to Serfdom... kairos12 Feb 2013 #34

If/When I'm at retirement age and can't... DaveJ Feb 2013 #36

Pensions came from Unions, nuff said** MRDAWG Feb 2013 #37

"401Ks are great for me" DotGone Feb 2013 #39

Yes, 401k program sounded good on paper.. DCBob Feb 2013 #42

It doesn't work, unless you are a perfect cog in the machine. DaveJ Feb 2013 #48

Some people have done well with 401K and other retirement plans. nt bluestate10 Feb 2013 #43

and lot of people are fooling themselves Skittles Feb 2013 #45

There are basically two ways to do that. 1. Dumb luck, and 2. Learning how to manage investments. slackmaster Feb 2013 #46

3. Finding investment advisers that aren't ripoff artists, many exists if people take the bluestate10 Feb 2013 #57

+1 That's the problem...you stated it well. n/t KoKo Feb 2013 #109

and some people are doing well cause they bought the winning lottery ticket JanMichael Feb 2013 #92

I intend on working until I am 70 and then dieing shortly thereafter to satisfy the madinmaryland Feb 2013 #47

I hope you live a long happy life. DaveJ Feb 2013 #51

And what the fuck am I going to do??? Gotta pay the bills, you know. madinmaryland Feb 2013 #52

I dunno, but just sayin' DaveJ Feb 2013 #88

Thanks for reminding me how screwn I am at this point..... n't 2on2u Feb 2013 #53

K&R ReRe Feb 2013 #55

Wasn't that always the whole point? BeyondGeography Feb 2013 #56

The problem is they forced people into funds that had high fees, and not always still_one Feb 2013 #61

I guess I've been fortunate FreeJoe Feb 2013 #64

I have been fortunate mostly too, but one company I worked still_one Feb 2013 #77

I'm in the process of closing out one that was costing me about $100 per year as an annual fee slackmaster Feb 2013 #74

Most cannot rollover unless they leave the company still_one Feb 2013 #78

True. I quit that company about three years ago but hadn't paid enough attention to the fees. slackmaster Feb 2013 #79

You are correct a lot of folks when they leave a company do not still_one Feb 2013 #84

I have mixed feelings about 401Ks FreeJoe Feb 2013 #62

It bothers me a bit.... llmart Feb 2013 #75

It bothers me, the way they say it. DaveJ Feb 2013 #89

Companies could screw you out of a pension as well mythology Feb 2013 #76

Pensions only work if the company stays in business and if you work your whole career at one company FarCenter Feb 2013 #80

Another aspect, universally ignored by the proponents of this long-con, is the percentage Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #85

401k plans can and do work for many people, but only if they contribute. Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #91

Similar experience FreeJoe Feb 2013 #101

Problem is that just because they work some of the time doesn't mean they'll work all the time. HomeboyHombre Feb 2013 #105

But there are downsides to both of those. Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #107

Sorry, that's false. HomeboyHombre Feb 2013 #228

True, and I never said "only" for the poor. Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #229

In what universe were pensions guaranteed? ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #197

A key issue that seems to be glossed over in much of this thread. n/t hughee99 Feb 2013 #214

401k worked well for me. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #98

How have you done with the latest crash though? KoKo Feb 2013 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #115

Tell me the truth...Did you go into the Junk Bonds for Returns? KoKo Feb 2013 #122

I apologize, I misread my statement. My actual returns are not unlike yours < 10% lumberjack_jeff Feb 2013 #128

Thanks for your honesty in revision...I can understand.... KoKo Feb 2013 #136

You only lose when you have to sell at a loss. Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #175

Wife and I are already talking about passive retirement, this is disgusting uponit7771 Feb 2013 #100

99% of the posts here don't seem to understand 401ks or pensions and how they work.... cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #106

There are a number here that get it, so don't leave just yet. Dawgs Feb 2013 #113

DU has a forum for STOCK MARKET WATCH....there are folks KoKo Feb 2013 #142

There's nothing complicated about it for the average investor.... cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #158

Ahhhhhh yes, the venerated Stock Market Watch Thread A HERETIC I AM Feb 2013 #180

401Ks are no substitute for a pension. Every person should have a pension, period. There is no good stevenleser Feb 2013 #108

what happens when the company goes bankrupt after 10 years? cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #110

No, pensions are supposed to be independant of the company that paid into them. stevenleser Feb 2013 #114

Steve. Laws are laws. Pensions are attached to the company that provide them. bluestate10 Feb 2013 #135

Tell that to the employees of the bankrupt airlines and other companies ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #194

I absolutely agree with you, but.... smccarter Feb 2013 #120

The disappearance of pension plans and the decline of Unions has gone hand in hand. bluestate10 Feb 2013 #138

Bingo smccarter Feb 2013 #147

Defined contribution plans are the biggest scams ever duffyduff Feb 2013 #140

Social Security yes. But the retirement buck stops at your own doorstep. smccarter Feb 2013 #116

With comments like those, I'm not sure you are on the right website. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #118

Please be specific? smccarter Feb 2013 #119

And hey, when you refuse to address the real problems of America's economic woes . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #124

So... you missed the point... smccarter Feb 2013 #125

You know, I re-read your reply. smccarter Feb 2013 #129

Uh, if anyone's missing America's real problem by a country mile, it sure isn't me. HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #130

Again smccarter Feb 2013 #146

Apparently, smccarter, life has been good to you and has handed you ponies and rainbows Trailrider1951 Feb 2013 #131

Funny smccarter Feb 2013 #145

Many of us took it personally because your original post in this thread was lacking in empathy stevenleser Feb 2013 #156

Point taken smccarter Feb 2013 #172

Look on the bright side: he likely is right there with ya on those drone strikes! nt Romulox Feb 2013 #159

And he is right there with you on lack of empathy, so, we're even! nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #168

Your comment makes zero sense, since YOU are the one excusing murder. Romulox Feb 2013 #178

Nope I am not, but someone without empathy wouldnt see that. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #179

Utter gibberish. In the past I expected better of you. Romulox Feb 2013 #184

Says the person who accuses a majority of DUers of supporting murder stevenleser Feb 2013 #186

try reading your own posts? lancoholic Feb 2013 #205

You missed the point of my post... smccarter Feb 2013 #227

Most are expecting to work part time until they die on the job Warpy Feb 2013 #126

KICK! patrice Feb 2013 #127

wait shanti Feb 2013 #132

This assumes they even have a job that they can afford to retire from duffyduff Feb 2013 #139

I bet most of us are looking at the $120k number and thinking 'I wish'. Matariki Feb 2013 #149

Another huge privatization failure. aquart Feb 2013 #151

This is an incredibly misleading headline... brooklynite Feb 2013 #153

Except... meaculpa2011 Feb 2013 #155

Brooklyn Heights... brooklynite Feb 2013 #163

Understood... meaculpa2011 Feb 2013 #167

Plan on dying at your fucking desk, pole, mine shaft, restaurant, forest, canyon workplace. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #162

really? shanti Feb 2013 #200

Look again. I was referring to those not retired yet. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #223

your post was not clear about that shanti Feb 2013 #225

The idea that 401ks are beyond the wit of most workers is elitist claptrap. dmallind Feb 2013 #165

Excellent advice! meaculpa2011 Feb 2013 #169

Oh, please. The things are a complete fraud. duffyduff Feb 2013 #173

Nonsense. I know hundreds of average people who will have hundreds of Common Sense Party Feb 2013 #174

It's the same amount FreeJoe Feb 2013 #211

It's not that 401(k)s are "beyond wit" . . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #176

7%, 20 years, $400/month FreeJoe Feb 2013 #208

But I thought the Dow was going to hit 36,000 under Dubya Dirty Socialist Feb 2013 #166

It did! But they forgot to mention it was 36,000 Indian Rupees stevenleser Feb 2013 #177

The fact is things are so bad because of 401k's, not in spite of them. raouldukelives Feb 2013 #185

This journal entry seems fitting for this discussion . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2013 #192

I am still not through the entire thread of your journal entry.... llmart Feb 2013 #212

The disaster was predicted by the left Warpy Feb 2013 #201

It's up to you Icecream man Feb 2013 #202

A 401K can get you a long way. FreeJoe Feb 2013 #207

I haven't had a good laugh in years. duffyduff Feb 2013 #217

You misunderstood my post FreeJoe Feb 2013 #219

Most people don't make enough money to even BEGIN to save enough duffyduff Feb 2013 #216

Message auto-removed Icecream man Feb 2013 #218

Wow this thread was linked to by Atrios. trumad Feb 2013 #203

You have a choice of a Pension OR a 401K HockeyMom Feb 2013 #226