General Discussion

Crepuscular

(1,068 posts)

188. measures

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 09:14 PM

Feb 2013

I've mentioned them before. They would include requiring that all firearms transfers be conducted through a licensed FFL dealer and also the creation of a Federal Gun Owners license that would be required to be able to purchase firearms or ammunition. Requirements for the license would include a background check, mental health screening and passing a basic safety and skills test. Other reasonable measures would be to beef up the penalties for using a gun when committing a crime, as well as severe sanctions for not complying with existing firearms laws. I think that most reasonable gun owners (that's not an oxymoron) would agree to those sorts of regulatory changes and it would be a reasonable and attainable starting point for federal gun legislation.

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Why The Gun Lobby Is Terrified Of California - from Mother Jones - *5-cent tax on each bullet* [View all] farminator3000 Feb 2013 OP

While all good measures, Light House Feb 2013 #1

Maybe people living on the border Drale Feb 2013 #5

That makes sense. Light House Feb 2013 #7

3-cent Fed tax on all bullets. Deficit solved! nt kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #75

why spend $50 in gas to save $50 on ammo? the idea might be to FORCE a court challenge... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #8

You could be right about forcing a court challenge. Light House Feb 2013 #14

i'm sure they've thought of the out of state thing farminator3000 Feb 2013 #28

No, there is no law against bringing ammo into the state. Light House Feb 2013 #32

A tax would not be unconstitutional, though, right? MH1 Feb 2013 #18

i guess you don't smoke cigs! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #25

True , but that kind of proves my point, doesn't it? MH1 Feb 2013 #29

yes! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #42

Cigarettes are not in our Bill of Rights. former9thward Feb 2013 #60

neither are bullets, technically farminator3000 Feb 2013 #66

That is like saying the ink in printing presses isn't covered by the 1st A. former9thward Feb 2013 #71

it isn't... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #73

You need to read up on your Supreme Court precedents hack89 Feb 2013 #81

that's fascinating, but... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #97

The government cannot control the press by taxing ink or paper at an onerous rate hack89 Feb 2013 #102

define an 'onerous rate' farminator3000 Feb 2013 #104

That is what the courts will decide. nt hack89 Feb 2013 #106

they sure will! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #109

Smart woman hack89 Feb 2013 #113

Do you imagine that the government could ban ink? AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #91

didn't say they could ban it farminator3000 Feb 2013 #95

We have a right to a free press, but the government can still put a sales tax on ink and paper. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #79

Familiar with Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner? hack89 Feb 2013 #84

Taxes on paper and ink are not special taxes. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #129

It depends on the purpose of the tax hack89 Feb 2013 #134

The government can't put an undue burden on rights. former9thward Feb 2013 #89

"Both weapons and ammo already have specific federal taxes." farminator3000 Feb 2013 #100

Wrong, the Supreme Court has ruled ammo is inclusive of 'arms'. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #142

link? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #146

Well, from Heller AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #151

that was a bit sneaky on my part farminator3000 Feb 2013 #157

I could swear that there was a more definitive statement AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #158

there should be... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #161

Don't forget the printer's ink and paper tax.. X_Digger Feb 2013 #165

I cannot concieve of theKed Feb 2013 #167

I wonder what your response would be if a tax of 5 cents a post on the internet .... former9thward Feb 2013 #169

Like data rate charges theKed Feb 2013 #172

So you do have no problem with a First Amendment tax. former9thward Feb 2013 #213

Aren't strawmen fun? theKed Feb 2013 #215

Plus state and local sales tax, plus 11% federal excise tax. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #170

Its still only 5 cents theKed Feb 2013 #173

Undue burden, thy name is printing ink jmowreader Feb 2013 #223

This is 2013. former9thward Feb 2013 #224

Okay, then how about a tax on Internet connectivity or on devices to connect to the Internet? jmowreader Feb 2013 #231

People don't use ink for 1st A purposes. former9thward Feb 2013 #233

Regulations are a significant burden to publishers jmowreader Feb 2013 #241

I guess we have to disagree about what courts would do. former9thward Feb 2013 #243

Every tax creates a burden on someone jmowreader Feb 2013 #244

Because you would be stuck with the ammunition you bought. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #77

and only the wealthy would be able to afford it. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #56

True, very true. Light House Feb 2013 #58

Isn't that the whole point of this exercise in wishful thinking? slackmaster Feb 2013 #111

a don't think a Dem supermajority in house and senate is 'wishful thinking'... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #192

Democrats are far from being in complete agreement on that measure slackmaster Feb 2013 #199

that's an understatement. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #200

Good, maybe it will close a few gun stores. That would help a lot. Hoyt Feb 2013 #152

5 dollars each is an accurate tax for the expenses involved nt flamingdem Feb 2013 #2

I like it, Light House Feb 2013 #3

They don't allow produce from others states in cars and use checkpoints graham4anything Feb 2013 #6

good point! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #11

They don't have dogs at these checkpoints. Light House Feb 2013 #17

they could. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #20

True. Light House Feb 2013 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author CTyankee Feb 2013 #33

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Light House Feb 2013 #38

sorry, I misread your post, thinking it read 2nd Amendment. CTyankee Feb 2013 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author Light House Feb 2013 #40

Naw, I'm just getting old... CTyankee Feb 2013 #70

No sweat. Light House Feb 2013 #228

so expand the 4th amendent farminator3000 Feb 2013 #35

Why the hell not. Light House Feb 2013 #37

Not workable. Light House Feb 2013 #12

all it takes is some new laws, a new court. The NRA is dead, they just don't know it yet. graham4anything Feb 2013 #15

I may agree that the second amendment is antiquated, Light House Feb 2013 #19

if they can scan your license plate or EZ pass or whatever farminator3000 Feb 2013 #22

The dealer out of state could get busted for what? Light House Feb 2013 #26

if it was a crime in CA to go out of state farminator3000 Feb 2013 #41

Only if it were federal law. Light House Feb 2013 #43

i think buried in the federal law there's something about dealers needing to be 'sort of sure' farminator3000 Feb 2013 #44

They aren't abetting a federal crime, Light House Feb 2013 #47

but the law is incomprehensible, and a BIG YES farminator3000 Feb 2013 #52

"zero mail/truck allowed from other states"??? Please explain. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #178

Yes, you are. graham4anything Feb 2013 #185

Something tells me that Dorner's rampage might put a crimp in this draconian legislation derby378 Feb 2013 #4

Really? THe Second Amendment doesn't apply Drale Feb 2013 #10

It's about making it so difficult that most could not possibly get the guns davidn3600 Feb 2013 #76

Your really going to try and compare Abortion and Guns? Drale Feb 2013 #78

Dude, both are protected under the Constitution davidn3600 Feb 2013 #82

Not sure I understand... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #21

The way some of these cops have behaved during the manhunt, shooting and terrifying civilians... derby378 Feb 2013 #36

Are you advocating we shoot at cops? Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #67

Your words, not mine... derby378 Feb 2013 #80

Oh I see, you say people should have equal firepower to cops so...what? Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #136

That was quite a leap you took Bay Boy Feb 2013 #117

Come on over and meet Mr. Winchester Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #138

Doesn't seem draconian to me. MH1 Feb 2013 #34

My gun safe filled with weapons bought in CA disagrees with you. n/t Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #65

I doubt that. People are just gonna say, maybe even tougher gun laws are needed. Hoyt Feb 2013 #154

The bullet tax Bay Boy Feb 2013 #9

maybe target shooters could get a break on the tax- like over $50, it becomes a penny each farminator3000 Feb 2013 #16

Now that is a good idea. Light House Feb 2013 #27

thanks! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #45

That's why I love DU, Light House Feb 2013 #48

all you'd need for the tax break would be a member card farminator3000 Feb 2013 #51

I like it. Light House Feb 2013 #55

^^^ FUCK THE NRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my my! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #62

Modern day poll tax Bay Boy Feb 2013 #13

you don't vote with a gun farminator3000 Feb 2013 #24

I guess I wasn't clear... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #31

We tax gas,cigs and alcohol already libtodeath Feb 2013 #46

None of which are mentioned in the Constitution hack89 Feb 2013 #87

bullets are NOT mentioned in the constitution either.(neither are guns of course) graham4anything Feb 2013 #99

Neither is abortion - do you want to go down that path? hack89 Feb 2013 #107

I do support California having check points for produce and applying it forward graham4anything Feb 2013 #118

If a police state makes you feel safer hack89 Feb 2013 #121

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose, which is nothing. graham4anything Feb 2013 #125

Put aside your fear hack89 Feb 2013 #127

thanks to precautions after 9-11, OklaCity and other events graham4anything Feb 2013 #131

I don't own guns for self protection. I live in a very safe area hack89 Feb 2013 #135

Why need bullets then? You can do that without real buillets. graham4anything Feb 2013 #137

No I can't hack89 Feb 2013 #141

How about pursuit of happieness or promote the general welfare libtodeath Feb 2013 #101

The Supreme Court is several steps ahead of you hack89 Feb 2013 #108

Then declare every fee,permit,registration,tax on sales,sin taxes,property taxes libtodeath Feb 2013 #116

You have misunderstood the argument hack89 Feb 2013 #120

No,you just want to cherry pick something and say it doesnt apply libtodeath Feb 2013 #124

ok. nt hack89 Feb 2013 #126

Are you trying to argue that taxes on guns and ammo is unconstitutional? Hugabear Feb 2013 #147

It depends on the intent and effect of the taxes hack89 Feb 2013 #207

What? A little tax on your obsession isn't worth consideration? DainBramaged Feb 2013 #49

Better idea: Let's put a $10,000 tax on vehicles that get less than 27 MPG. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #85

I'm all for that DainBramaged Feb 2013 #90

Corvettes are actually pretty light- minivans, trucks & most SUVs not so much... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #103

I'm still for it so your argument is moot DainBramaged Feb 2013 #105

guns and ammo are consumer products farminator3000 Feb 2013 #50

Another great idea. Light House Feb 2013 #57

wife + kid gone for a few days! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #61

Look forward to talking and exchanging ideas with you. Light House Feb 2013 #64

i'm ready for anything! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #68

Your tax structure is the opposite of what I think it should be. bluedigger Feb 2013 #69

a poor waitress could get a tax break with her paystub + safety class certificate farminator3000 Feb 2013 #72

That's more betterer. bluedigger Feb 2013 #74

sounds good! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #83

No - they are a protected civil liberty hack89 Feb 2013 #88

you're late for the party! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #94

Arms = weapons and ammunition. hack89 Feb 2013 #96

link? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #98

Common sense is allowed here hack89 Feb 2013 #110

well, common sense says you can't have a nuclear bomb, therefore, farminator3000 Feb 2013 #114

Yes - and if you actually understood US law hack89 Feb 2013 #115

hmm. i understand Heller, am i missing something? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #119

But those laws still have to pass Constitutional muster hack89 Feb 2013 #122

i'm sure some will... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #128

voting is free, guns aren't farminator3000 Feb 2013 #214

CA definitely punishes the poor. They're just not well known and quiet about it. Sirveri Feb 2013 #204

i wouldn't blame Cali for that. 'departments of vehicles' are atrocious wherever you go farminator3000 Feb 2013 #216

Way to go. guardian Feb 2013 #30

California 21.30% total pop 36,756,666 gun owners 7,829,170 8.04% farminator3000 Feb 2013 #54

No, most will be fine with it, and those that aren't already vote Republican. Scuba Feb 2013 #63

Some thoughts Recursion Feb 2013 #53

we agree 62.5%! wow! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #59

Smart and Sensible supercats Feb 2013 #86

i think taxing the crap out of ammunition is an answer samsingh Feb 2013 #92

and now for my 2,000th post...a bit of ironic sarcasm...totally unlike me, i know farminator3000 Feb 2013 #93

I just ordered about $400 worth of reloading equipment. I've reloaded in the past. slackmaster Feb 2013 #112

FINALLY! Three digits in replies before somebody mentions the obvious workaround. dmallind Feb 2013 #139

5 cents a bullet will not effect crime ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #123

it will if put towards...stopping crime? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #132

What would the money be spent on to reduce crime? dmallind Feb 2013 #143

i'm just a farmer, call Mr. Bonta and ask him? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #191

What good would more cops do? GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #206

it doesn't say 'more cops' farminator3000 Feb 2013 #218

Those would be good. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #220

ya, they're kinda cool- earthquake technology... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #222

crossroads Scott.K Feb 2013 #130

aren't you that 16 year old kid? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #133

Ha Scott.K Feb 2013 #140

maybe try the gungeon? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #144

hmm. Scott.K Feb 2013 #145

i wasn't being snarky about the punctuation - (jk) is just kidding farminator3000 Feb 2013 #148

That makes me think of the gun culture guy in 2008 primaries and Biden's response. Hoyt Feb 2013 #160

There are some AWESOME measures in this legislation that nobody is talking about at all Hugabear Feb 2013 #149

i'll talk about 'em! (perhaps the 'gun enthusiasts' are shocked into speechlessness?) farminator3000 Feb 2013 #153

I haven't had to go through a NICS check for almost 15 years. oneshooter Feb 2013 #175

gotcha. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #179

Read slower. "Texas CHL" n/t oneshooter Feb 2013 #227

as long as you aren't using it in Cali farminator3000 Feb 2013 #229

+10000000000000000 and more. Hoyt Feb 2013 #155

Absolutely! Great proposals. apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #176

The five-cent-per-round tax is a dollar a box, folks jmowreader Feb 2013 #150

Good point, make it a lot more, and require background checks for ammo. Hoyt Feb 2013 #156

I dont mind the tax Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #159

Seriously, Travis, are truly poor people partaking in expensive hobbies like target shooting? jmowreader Feb 2013 #163

The post was sarcasm. Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #164

expensive hobbies? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #171

For the most common type of ammunition sold, by far, it would amount to $2.50 per box slackmaster Feb 2013 #168

sure doesn't sound regressive to me- a person that can barely afford $4 probably doesn't shoot much farminator3000 Feb 2013 #177

Whatever. I'll never pay it no matter how it's calculated. slackmaster Feb 2013 #198

Majority unconstitutional... and a couple of particularly stupid/illegal ones... Coyote_Tan Feb 2013 #162

says who? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #181

It would appear Crepuscular Feb 2013 #166

no, it wouldn't. you weren't specific enough to really follow farminator3000 Feb 2013 #182

measures Crepuscular Feb 2013 #188

those sound great, still wondering which you don't like? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #190

which don't I like? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #194

the ammo tax goes towards the 'root cause' you speak of farminator3000 Feb 2013 #196

replied Crepuscular Feb 2013 #202

Great proposals, especially the ammo tax. As the country is turning Blue, these same laws apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #174

Ain't gonna happen... derby378 Feb 2013 #180

Oh yes it is, and in our lifetimes, the way the country is trending. Further, as poll taxes apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #183

sure it is, why else would the gun lobby be terrified? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #184

Exactly. Spot on reply. Every time an article or notion comes up about increasing the ammo apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #186

nice sig line farminator3000 Feb 2013 #189

Thanks! There was an organized attempt to alert-stalk by a small group obsessed with me in apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #193

tax the ammo by GRAIN (the weight of the lead part that flies and hits things)!!! yup. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #187

Nope Crepuscular Feb 2013 #201

yep. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #203

still makes no sense Crepuscular Feb 2013 #209

perhaps you aren't reading it correctly farminator3000 Feb 2013 #219

Sorry but your post is full of misconceptions. Crepuscular Feb 2013 #225

blah blah blah-^^^ no links, no truth...and a little...well, you decide... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #226

LoL! Crepuscular Feb 2013 #230

nope, not funny. but thanks for the idea, i'll include it in my email to the CA Senators farminator3000 Feb 2013 #232

Still a silly idea Crepuscular Feb 2013 #234

sure as hell better than 5 cents each farminator3000 Feb 2013 #235

It's tolerable Crepuscular Feb 2013 #236

a short lesson in hip hop, from a punk farmer. don't be hatin' the game, yo farminator3000 Feb 2013 #237

Thanks but no thanks. Crepuscular Feb 2013 #239

thanks for checking that out, by the way, and you'll like this one farminator3000 Feb 2013 #238

Nice! Crepuscular Feb 2013 #240

here is a visual aid farminator3000 Feb 2013 #221

Sounds good, though I think item 7 is too broad to be enforceable ShadowLiberal Feb 2013 #195

i think that's supposed to clean up unregistered guns farminator3000 Feb 2013 #197

So... if I go to the range with my non-shooting buddy, and we both use my gun, I go to jail? Sirveri Feb 2013 #205

i don't think so farminator3000 Feb 2013 #217

Take steps to phase out legal possession of assault weapons that were purchased before California xoom Feb 2013 #208

it is kinda vague farminator3000 Feb 2013 #210

more articles and another 80s hardcore vid farminator3000 Feb 2013 #211

factastic! robinlynne Feb 2013 #212

Santa Clara County announces gun buy back event - Federal gun law proposals already in place in Cali farminator3000 Feb 2013 #242