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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
41. I did no such thing.
Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:20 PM
Feb 2013

"There is a wide expanse of preventative measures against attacks with sound intelligence that do not require acts of war.

Bush could have, and should have, stopped the attacks. And, here is the kicker for you, it wouldn't have required an act of war!"

You're speaking in generalizations. What exactly are the "preventative measures" for say bin Laden plotting attacks on the U.S.?

Bush didn't even pursue bin Laden. Also, how do you know what the appropriate response would have been prior to the attacks?

The notion that there are no circumstances that require the pursuit of terrorists in which lethal force is justified ignores reality.

In 2002, another U.S. citizen was killed in Yemen, though it was originally stated that he was not the target.

Kamal Derwish (also Ahmed Hijazi) was an American citizen killed by the CIA as part of a covert targeted killing mission in Yemen on November 5, 2002. The CIA used an RQ-1 Predator drone to shoot a Hellfire missile, destroying the vehicle in which he was driving with five others.[1]

Derwish had been closely linked to the growing religious fundamentalism of the Lackawanna Six, a group of Muslim-Americans who had attended lectures in his apartment near Buffalo, New York.[2][3]

That an American citizen had been killed by the CIA without trial drew criticism.[4] American authorities quickly back-pedaled on their stories celebrating the death of Derwish, instead noting they had been unaware he was in the car which they said had been targeted for its other occupants, including Abu Ali al-Harithi, believed to have played some role in the USS Cole bombing.[4]

<...>

On November 3, 2002, Derwish and al-Harithi were part of a convoy of vehicles moving through the Yemeni desert trying to meet someone, unaware that their contact was cooperating with US forces to lure them into a trap. As their driver spoke on satellite phone, trying to figure out why the two parties couldn't see each other if they were both at the rendezvous point, a Predator drone launched a Hellfire missile, killing everybody in the vehicle. CIA officers in Djibouti had received clearance for the attack from director George Tenet.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Derwish

Human Rights Watch issued this statement about the target:

The line between war and law enforcement gained importance as the U.S. government extended its military efforts against terrorism outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan. In November, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency used a missile to kill Qaid Salim Sinan al-Harethi, an alleged senior al-Qaeda official, and five companions as they were driving in a remote and lawless area of Yemen controlled by tribal chiefs. Washington accused al-Harethi of masterminding the October 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole which had killed seventeen sailors. Based on the limited information available, Human Rights Watch did not criticize the attack on al-Harethi as an extra-judicial execution because his alleged al-Qaeda role arguably made him a combatant, the government apparently lacked control over the area in question, and there evidently was no reasonable law enforcement alternative. Indeed, eighteen Yemeni soldiers had reportedly been killed in a prior attempt to arrest al-Harethi. However, the U.S. government made no public effort to justify this use of its war powers or to articulate the legal limits to such powers. It is Human Rights Watch's position that even someone who might be classified as an enemy combatant should not be subject to military attack when reasonable law enforcement means are available. The failure to respect this principle would risk creating a huge loophole in due process protections worldwide. It would leave everyone open to being summarily killed anyplace in the world upon the unilateral determination by the United States (or, as the approach is inevitably emulated, by any other government) that he or she is an enemy combatant.

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/wr2k3/introduction.html

It reiterates the conditions for action ("al-Qaeda role," "no control over area" and "no reasonable law enforcement alternative," but it also stresses the risk of a slippery slope.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Iraq invasion was much worse Enrique Feb 2013 #1
Wait ProSense Feb 2013 #5
Many Congressional Democrats voted to invade Iraq MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #2
Are you saying ProSense Feb 2013 #4
How did Bush violate the IWR? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #6
"Even if the war was legal" Was it? n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #7
YOU are claiming it was not. nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #9
You evidently aren't ProSense Feb 2013 #13
Republican George W. Bush said those words in the State of the Union gulliver Feb 2013 #28
Yes, that was clearly a lie. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #29
"So I'd have to go with not illegal." ProSense Feb 2013 #31
Will you please stop putting words in my mouth? MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #32
You said: "So I'd have to go with not illegal." ProSense Feb 2013 #33
While I support your intention I dont know if I agree about the legality. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #53
OMG, what have you done? You've branded him an, an "apologist". rhett o rick Feb 2013 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author politicasista Feb 2013 #30
well, yea, the Iraq invasion was far worse quinnox Feb 2013 #3
I will defecate and allow you to choose the smallest turd to carry in your hand. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #8
I like that, and I agree. Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #15
I get it ProSense Feb 2013 #16
So two wrongs make a right libtodeath Feb 2013 #10
Because of some stupid fucking post equating Zoeisright Feb 2013 #46
Casualties ought not be the criterion. Constitutional legality ought to be. WinkyDink Feb 2013 #11
Because killing in mass quantities is better when properly papered over? quaker bill Feb 2013 #12
really ? i think it should matter JI7 Feb 2013 #14
Both encourage injured parties to theaocp Feb 2013 #17
Bullshit! ProSense Feb 2013 #20
The world knows, huh? theaocp Feb 2013 #22
Oh boy ProSense Feb 2013 #23
Spare yourself. theaocp Feb 2013 #24
Exactly. +100000 whatchamacallit Feb 2013 #25
No, that's ProSense Feb 2013 #26
It goes back to my original response to your question. theaocp Feb 2013 #54
Aw, don't you worry about it. Obama let Bush get away with his illegal war. MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #18
At least you acknowledge that it was illegal. n/t ProSense Feb 2013 #21
Oh that? That was fine! Turbineguy Feb 2013 #19
I think this is as false a comparison as the one you argued Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #27
Drone strikes are the Bush Doctrine with a light footprint. morningfog Feb 2013 #34
No, ProSense Feb 2013 #36
Pre-emption by any other name smells just as bloody. morningfog Feb 2013 #37
Wait ProSense Feb 2013 #38
I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. Thanks. morningfog Feb 2013 #39
I did no such thing. ProSense Feb 2013 #41
You continue to muddy the waters. You use the term "terrorist," morningfog Feb 2013 #42
No, you are the ProSense Feb 2013 #43
Al-Qaeda is not a monolithic organization. morningfog Feb 2013 #44
What exactly ProSense Feb 2013 #45
You are almost there. morningfog Feb 2013 #48
Hey, ProSense Feb 2013 #49
No. You dodge, deflect and ignore the issues. Best of luck to you and your agenda. morningfog Feb 2013 #50
No I didn't, you ProSense Feb 2013 #52
Pre-emption is policy. You can't deny it. morningfog Feb 2013 #55
What do you call an American citizen who joins with a group like al-Qaeda who wants to kill Thinkingabout Feb 2013 #35
As you said, there is NO comparison jazzimov Feb 2013 #40
Now that you put it like that, I can see that they are totally equivalent Hekate Feb 2013 #47
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