General Discussion

Crepuscular

(1,068 posts)

202. replied

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:30 PM

Feb 2013

I replied to #187, silly idea to tax bullets based on weight.

Criminals that are doing things with guns are generally already in violation of existing laws, kind of pointless to add additional laws for them to violate, when those laws are also overly restrictive on law abiding individuals. Demonstrate how making a semi-automatic pistol that is already illegally possessed by a criminal, "more" illegal because the detachable magazine is now illegal, going to have any tangible impact on crime? Do you think criminals are going to turn in their newly illegal detachable magazines? Please, let's be real.

Magazine capacity has very little to do with the potential danger posed by a particular weapon. Uncle Joe's 12 gauge pump shotgun is unfortunately equally capable of killing just as many people as were killed in some of the recent high profile mass killings and I can't envision any sort of legislation that would have a hope in hell of being enacted that would result in the confiscation of the 50 million or so pump shotguns that are sitting in peoples closets.

I realize that it's sexy to go after "scary black" assault weapons and that is plays well for the microphones but from a practical standpoint it will have very little if any impact on reducing violent crime.

Gun dealers can be criminals, as can cops, Congressmen and just about any other sort of person. Your point is?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

244 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why The Gun Lobby Is Terrified Of California - from Mother Jones - *5-cent tax on each bullet* [View all] farminator3000 Feb 2013 OP

While all good measures, Light House Feb 2013 #1

Maybe people living on the border Drale Feb 2013 #5

That makes sense. Light House Feb 2013 #7

3-cent Fed tax on all bullets. Deficit solved! nt kelliekat44 Feb 2013 #75

why spend $50 in gas to save $50 on ammo? the idea might be to FORCE a court challenge... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #8

You could be right about forcing a court challenge. Light House Feb 2013 #14

i'm sure they've thought of the out of state thing farminator3000 Feb 2013 #28

No, there is no law against bringing ammo into the state. Light House Feb 2013 #32

A tax would not be unconstitutional, though, right? MH1 Feb 2013 #18

i guess you don't smoke cigs! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #25

True , but that kind of proves my point, doesn't it? MH1 Feb 2013 #29

yes! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #42

Cigarettes are not in our Bill of Rights. former9thward Feb 2013 #60

neither are bullets, technically farminator3000 Feb 2013 #66

That is like saying the ink in printing presses isn't covered by the 1st A. former9thward Feb 2013 #71

it isn't... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #73

You need to read up on your Supreme Court precedents hack89 Feb 2013 #81

that's fascinating, but... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #97

The government cannot control the press by taxing ink or paper at an onerous rate hack89 Feb 2013 #102

define an 'onerous rate' farminator3000 Feb 2013 #104

That is what the courts will decide. nt hack89 Feb 2013 #106

they sure will! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #109

Smart woman hack89 Feb 2013 #113

Do you imagine that the government could ban ink? AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #91

didn't say they could ban it farminator3000 Feb 2013 #95

We have a right to a free press, but the government can still put a sales tax on ink and paper. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #79

Familiar with Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner? hack89 Feb 2013 #84

Taxes on paper and ink are not special taxes. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #129

It depends on the purpose of the tax hack89 Feb 2013 #134

The government can't put an undue burden on rights. former9thward Feb 2013 #89

"Both weapons and ammo already have specific federal taxes." farminator3000 Feb 2013 #100

Wrong, the Supreme Court has ruled ammo is inclusive of 'arms'. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #142

link? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #146

Well, from Heller AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #151

that was a bit sneaky on my part farminator3000 Feb 2013 #157

I could swear that there was a more definitive statement AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #158

there should be... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #161

Don't forget the printer's ink and paper tax.. X_Digger Feb 2013 #165

I cannot concieve of theKed Feb 2013 #167

I wonder what your response would be if a tax of 5 cents a post on the internet .... former9thward Feb 2013 #169

Like data rate charges theKed Feb 2013 #172

So you do have no problem with a First Amendment tax. former9thward Feb 2013 #213

Aren't strawmen fun? theKed Feb 2013 #215

Plus state and local sales tax, plus 11% federal excise tax. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #170

Its still only 5 cents theKed Feb 2013 #173

Undue burden, thy name is printing ink jmowreader Feb 2013 #223

This is 2013. former9thward Feb 2013 #224

Okay, then how about a tax on Internet connectivity or on devices to connect to the Internet? jmowreader Feb 2013 #231

People don't use ink for 1st A purposes. former9thward Feb 2013 #233

Regulations are a significant burden to publishers jmowreader Feb 2013 #241

I guess we have to disagree about what courts would do. former9thward Feb 2013 #243

Every tax creates a burden on someone jmowreader Feb 2013 #244

Because you would be stuck with the ammunition you bought. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #77

and only the wealthy would be able to afford it. nt Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #56

True, very true. Light House Feb 2013 #58

Isn't that the whole point of this exercise in wishful thinking? slackmaster Feb 2013 #111

a don't think a Dem supermajority in house and senate is 'wishful thinking'... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #192

Democrats are far from being in complete agreement on that measure slackmaster Feb 2013 #199

that's an understatement. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #200

Good, maybe it will close a few gun stores. That would help a lot. Hoyt Feb 2013 #152

5 dollars each is an accurate tax for the expenses involved nt flamingdem Feb 2013 #2

I like it, Light House Feb 2013 #3

They don't allow produce from others states in cars and use checkpoints graham4anything Feb 2013 #6

good point! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #11

They don't have dogs at these checkpoints. Light House Feb 2013 #17

they could. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #20

True. Light House Feb 2013 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author CTyankee Feb 2013 #33

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Light House Feb 2013 #38

sorry, I misread your post, thinking it read 2nd Amendment. CTyankee Feb 2013 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author Light House Feb 2013 #40

Naw, I'm just getting old... CTyankee Feb 2013 #70

No sweat. Light House Feb 2013 #228

so expand the 4th amendent farminator3000 Feb 2013 #35

Why the hell not. Light House Feb 2013 #37

Not workable. Light House Feb 2013 #12

all it takes is some new laws, a new court. The NRA is dead, they just don't know it yet. graham4anything Feb 2013 #15

I may agree that the second amendment is antiquated, Light House Feb 2013 #19

if they can scan your license plate or EZ pass or whatever farminator3000 Feb 2013 #22

The dealer out of state could get busted for what? Light House Feb 2013 #26

if it was a crime in CA to go out of state farminator3000 Feb 2013 #41

Only if it were federal law. Light House Feb 2013 #43

i think buried in the federal law there's something about dealers needing to be 'sort of sure' farminator3000 Feb 2013 #44

They aren't abetting a federal crime, Light House Feb 2013 #47

but the law is incomprehensible, and a BIG YES farminator3000 Feb 2013 #52

"zero mail/truck allowed from other states"??? Please explain. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #178

Yes, you are. graham4anything Feb 2013 #185

Something tells me that Dorner's rampage might put a crimp in this draconian legislation derby378 Feb 2013 #4

Really? THe Second Amendment doesn't apply Drale Feb 2013 #10

It's about making it so difficult that most could not possibly get the guns davidn3600 Feb 2013 #76

Your really going to try and compare Abortion and Guns? Drale Feb 2013 #78

Dude, both are protected under the Constitution davidn3600 Feb 2013 #82

Not sure I understand... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #21

The way some of these cops have behaved during the manhunt, shooting and terrifying civilians... derby378 Feb 2013 #36

Are you advocating we shoot at cops? Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #67

Your words, not mine... derby378 Feb 2013 #80

Oh I see, you say people should have equal firepower to cops so...what? Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #136

That was quite a leap you took Bay Boy Feb 2013 #117

Come on over and meet Mr. Winchester Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #138

Doesn't seem draconian to me. MH1 Feb 2013 #34

My gun safe filled with weapons bought in CA disagrees with you. n/t Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #65

I doubt that. People are just gonna say, maybe even tougher gun laws are needed. Hoyt Feb 2013 #154

The bullet tax Bay Boy Feb 2013 #9

maybe target shooters could get a break on the tax- like over $50, it becomes a penny each farminator3000 Feb 2013 #16

Now that is a good idea. Light House Feb 2013 #27

thanks! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #45

That's why I love DU, Light House Feb 2013 #48

all you'd need for the tax break would be a member card farminator3000 Feb 2013 #51

I like it. Light House Feb 2013 #55

^^^ FUCK THE NRA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my my! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #62

Modern day poll tax Bay Boy Feb 2013 #13

you don't vote with a gun farminator3000 Feb 2013 #24

I guess I wasn't clear... Bay Boy Feb 2013 #31

We tax gas,cigs and alcohol already libtodeath Feb 2013 #46

None of which are mentioned in the Constitution hack89 Feb 2013 #87

bullets are NOT mentioned in the constitution either.(neither are guns of course) graham4anything Feb 2013 #99

Neither is abortion - do you want to go down that path? hack89 Feb 2013 #107

I do support California having check points for produce and applying it forward graham4anything Feb 2013 #118

If a police state makes you feel safer hack89 Feb 2013 #121

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose, which is nothing. graham4anything Feb 2013 #125

Put aside your fear hack89 Feb 2013 #127

thanks to precautions after 9-11, OklaCity and other events graham4anything Feb 2013 #131

I don't own guns for self protection. I live in a very safe area hack89 Feb 2013 #135

Why need bullets then? You can do that without real buillets. graham4anything Feb 2013 #137

No I can't hack89 Feb 2013 #141

How about pursuit of happieness or promote the general welfare libtodeath Feb 2013 #101

The Supreme Court is several steps ahead of you hack89 Feb 2013 #108

Then declare every fee,permit,registration,tax on sales,sin taxes,property taxes libtodeath Feb 2013 #116

You have misunderstood the argument hack89 Feb 2013 #120

No,you just want to cherry pick something and say it doesnt apply libtodeath Feb 2013 #124

ok. nt hack89 Feb 2013 #126

Are you trying to argue that taxes on guns and ammo is unconstitutional? Hugabear Feb 2013 #147

It depends on the intent and effect of the taxes hack89 Feb 2013 #207

What? A little tax on your obsession isn't worth consideration? DainBramaged Feb 2013 #49

Better idea: Let's put a $10,000 tax on vehicles that get less than 27 MPG. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #85

I'm all for that DainBramaged Feb 2013 #90

Corvettes are actually pretty light- minivans, trucks & most SUVs not so much... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #103

I'm still for it so your argument is moot DainBramaged Feb 2013 #105

guns and ammo are consumer products farminator3000 Feb 2013 #50

Another great idea. Light House Feb 2013 #57

wife + kid gone for a few days! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #61

Look forward to talking and exchanging ideas with you. Light House Feb 2013 #64

i'm ready for anything! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #68

Your tax structure is the opposite of what I think it should be. bluedigger Feb 2013 #69

a poor waitress could get a tax break with her paystub + safety class certificate farminator3000 Feb 2013 #72

That's more betterer. bluedigger Feb 2013 #74

sounds good! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #83

No - they are a protected civil liberty hack89 Feb 2013 #88

you're late for the party! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #94

Arms = weapons and ammunition. hack89 Feb 2013 #96

link? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #98

Common sense is allowed here hack89 Feb 2013 #110

well, common sense says you can't have a nuclear bomb, therefore, farminator3000 Feb 2013 #114

Yes - and if you actually understood US law hack89 Feb 2013 #115

hmm. i understand Heller, am i missing something? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #119

But those laws still have to pass Constitutional muster hack89 Feb 2013 #122

i'm sure some will... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #128

voting is free, guns aren't farminator3000 Feb 2013 #214

CA definitely punishes the poor. They're just not well known and quiet about it. Sirveri Feb 2013 #204

i wouldn't blame Cali for that. 'departments of vehicles' are atrocious wherever you go farminator3000 Feb 2013 #216

Way to go. guardian Feb 2013 #30

California 21.30% total pop 36,756,666 gun owners 7,829,170 8.04% farminator3000 Feb 2013 #54

No, most will be fine with it, and those that aren't already vote Republican. Scuba Feb 2013 #63

Some thoughts Recursion Feb 2013 #53

we agree 62.5%! wow! farminator3000 Feb 2013 #59

Smart and Sensible supercats Feb 2013 #86

i think taxing the crap out of ammunition is an answer samsingh Feb 2013 #92

and now for my 2,000th post...a bit of ironic sarcasm...totally unlike me, i know farminator3000 Feb 2013 #93

I just ordered about $400 worth of reloading equipment. I've reloaded in the past. slackmaster Feb 2013 #112

FINALLY! Three digits in replies before somebody mentions the obvious workaround. dmallind Feb 2013 #139

5 cents a bullet will not effect crime ButterflyBlood Feb 2013 #123

it will if put towards...stopping crime? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #132

What would the money be spent on to reduce crime? dmallind Feb 2013 #143

i'm just a farmer, call Mr. Bonta and ask him? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #191

What good would more cops do? GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #206

it doesn't say 'more cops' farminator3000 Feb 2013 #218

Those would be good. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #220

ya, they're kinda cool- earthquake technology... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #222

crossroads Scott.K Feb 2013 #130

aren't you that 16 year old kid? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #133

Ha Scott.K Feb 2013 #140

maybe try the gungeon? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #144

hmm. Scott.K Feb 2013 #145

i wasn't being snarky about the punctuation - (jk) is just kidding farminator3000 Feb 2013 #148

That makes me think of the gun culture guy in 2008 primaries and Biden's response. Hoyt Feb 2013 #160

There are some AWESOME measures in this legislation that nobody is talking about at all Hugabear Feb 2013 #149

i'll talk about 'em! (perhaps the 'gun enthusiasts' are shocked into speechlessness?) farminator3000 Feb 2013 #153

I haven't had to go through a NICS check for almost 15 years. oneshooter Feb 2013 #175

gotcha. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #179

Read slower. "Texas CHL" n/t oneshooter Feb 2013 #227

as long as you aren't using it in Cali farminator3000 Feb 2013 #229

+10000000000000000 and more. Hoyt Feb 2013 #155

Absolutely! Great proposals. apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #176

The five-cent-per-round tax is a dollar a box, folks jmowreader Feb 2013 #150

Good point, make it a lot more, and require background checks for ammo. Hoyt Feb 2013 #156

I dont mind the tax Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #159

Seriously, Travis, are truly poor people partaking in expensive hobbies like target shooting? jmowreader Feb 2013 #163

The post was sarcasm. Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #164

expensive hobbies? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #171

For the most common type of ammunition sold, by far, it would amount to $2.50 per box slackmaster Feb 2013 #168

sure doesn't sound regressive to me- a person that can barely afford $4 probably doesn't shoot much farminator3000 Feb 2013 #177

Whatever. I'll never pay it no matter how it's calculated. slackmaster Feb 2013 #198

Majority unconstitutional... and a couple of particularly stupid/illegal ones... Coyote_Tan Feb 2013 #162

says who? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #181

It would appear Crepuscular Feb 2013 #166

no, it wouldn't. you weren't specific enough to really follow farminator3000 Feb 2013 #182

measures Crepuscular Feb 2013 #188

those sound great, still wondering which you don't like? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #190

which don't I like? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #194

the ammo tax goes towards the 'root cause' you speak of farminator3000 Feb 2013 #196

replied Crepuscular Feb 2013 #202

Great proposals, especially the ammo tax. As the country is turning Blue, these same laws apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #174

Ain't gonna happen... derby378 Feb 2013 #180

Oh yes it is, and in our lifetimes, the way the country is trending. Further, as poll taxes apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #183

sure it is, why else would the gun lobby be terrified? farminator3000 Feb 2013 #184

Exactly. Spot on reply. Every time an article or notion comes up about increasing the ammo apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #186

nice sig line farminator3000 Feb 2013 #189

Thanks! There was an organized attempt to alert-stalk by a small group obsessed with me in apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #193

tax the ammo by GRAIN (the weight of the lead part that flies and hits things)!!! yup. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #187

Nope Crepuscular Feb 2013 #201

yep. farminator3000 Feb 2013 #203

still makes no sense Crepuscular Feb 2013 #209

perhaps you aren't reading it correctly farminator3000 Feb 2013 #219

Sorry but your post is full of misconceptions. Crepuscular Feb 2013 #225

blah blah blah-^^^ no links, no truth...and a little...well, you decide... farminator3000 Feb 2013 #226

LoL! Crepuscular Feb 2013 #230

nope, not funny. but thanks for the idea, i'll include it in my email to the CA Senators farminator3000 Feb 2013 #232

Still a silly idea Crepuscular Feb 2013 #234

sure as hell better than 5 cents each farminator3000 Feb 2013 #235

It's tolerable Crepuscular Feb 2013 #236

a short lesson in hip hop, from a punk farmer. don't be hatin' the game, yo farminator3000 Feb 2013 #237

Thanks but no thanks. Crepuscular Feb 2013 #239

thanks for checking that out, by the way, and you'll like this one farminator3000 Feb 2013 #238

Nice! Crepuscular Feb 2013 #240

here is a visual aid farminator3000 Feb 2013 #221

Sounds good, though I think item 7 is too broad to be enforceable ShadowLiberal Feb 2013 #195

i think that's supposed to clean up unregistered guns farminator3000 Feb 2013 #197

So... if I go to the range with my non-shooting buddy, and we both use my gun, I go to jail? Sirveri Feb 2013 #205

i don't think so farminator3000 Feb 2013 #217

Take steps to phase out legal possession of assault weapons that were purchased before California xoom Feb 2013 #208

it is kinda vague farminator3000 Feb 2013 #210

more articles and another 80s hardcore vid farminator3000 Feb 2013 #211

factastic! robinlynne Feb 2013 #212

Santa Clara County announces gun buy back event - Federal gun law proposals already in place in Cali farminator3000 Feb 2013 #242