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haele

(15,418 posts)
141. I really, really hate to wade into a mess like this, but here goes -
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 08:35 PM
Feb 2013

My quarter and a half's worth of thought on this based on what I've read of his manifesto, the actual evidence of what he's done, the cess pool that is the LAPD, and my own personal experiences with various types of heirarchal cultures that are prone to corruption.

1) Dornan's page, manifesto, and other writings and interviews with people who know/knew him suggest that he has very, very strong opinions on what he is and what the world should be, whether or not it really is that way.
He is also very smart and has developed a talent to activity related to warfare.
In my experience, people who function according to an overly strong self-identification to their personal worldview have, well, rather brittle filters when it comes to dealing with others in social interaction.
They don't actually see other people as people separate from that personal world.
They tend to have hair-trigger reactions to what is perceived as threatening, disrespectful, or condescending, and they tend to internalize and work up their agitation against those perceptions and eventually explode, convinced that the world is against them.
Their intentions and actions are always justified by the strength of the feelings that they hold about a subject or person.

2) LAPD as an entity has been a cess pool of corruption from when the city was transitioning from the old Ciudad de los Angeles to Mulholland and others turning it into a real-estate and oil field boom town - it was that way in the 1960's when my parents left LA, and so far as I can see, it never really changed over the years.
TPTB within love the image they are the "thin blue line" against the "masses of unwashed animals and speculators" that inhabit LA, and as with all hierarchal organizations, the attitudes seep downwards and have become so entrenched so that while there are quite a number of good people who are great police, the majority get stuck in morass that is "the culture" from the top.
If those good people don't play the "don't see nothin' game or don't have a thick enough skin to live with being constantly stepped on, they get taken down or driven out.
The corruption in the LAPD in itself is not a surprise, and is constantly an issue that has been discussed by concerned Angelinos for decades - my parents talked about it, my relatives talk about it, and when I worked up there occasionally, I saw it and discussed it with co-workers and friends.
Basically, while there have been efforts to clean up in the past, until those at the top - especially those established power bases within the city infrastructure and politics themselves - make a serious, almost generational effort to clean house, the corruption and police attitudes will not change.

3) From these two things, my comments start simple - Dornan ran afoul of "the LAPD culture".
He was too wound up in his personal world from the hurt of their casual treatment of him for being "a nail" (in their cultural view) to be able to step back and see what could be done to damage the LAPD without turning it into a personal vendetta.
And it is his vendetta and the threats of death that are making this whole situation "news".

But beyond his situation my complaint is this - why don't we instead discuss the hundreds of other former LAPD officers who were drummed out or who quit in disgust and did other things to strike back at the corruption in the force that drove them out - who wrote articles, provided evidence because they didn't fit in with a corrupt culture and who didn't get pissed off and go on a killing spree?
The hundreds who have raised their voices to complain, who have been ignored, but went on to make the best of their lives?
No.
We discuss an angry ex-cop with military training, an arsenal, and a hit list that could endanger thousands of people who had nothing to do with his situation.
And of course, it's "good TV" - like a Mob movie - it's a chase between an corrupt organization and an anti-hero who couldn't think beyond his own sense of revenge to become a murderer who bloodied their nose?

Other than the damage done to people who had nothing to do with this sorry, threat to the general public situation Dornan put himself in when he went on this spree, there's very little more he could have accomplished if he hadn't let his temper and thirst for revenge get in the way of his brain and pushed him "over the edge".
Certainly his actions have not been near any level of the heroic efforts the many police and civilians who, over the years, have worked to blow the lid on the corruption in the LAPD that seems to keep coming back because of that "thin blue line" attitude of theirs.

Haele

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Yeah...Dorner's in a firefight right now with Fish&Game & deputies after a home invasion. Maybe msanthrope Feb 2013 #1
Or now is good too. EOTE Feb 2013 #6
Well, I'm waiting for the part of the Manifesto that justifies a home invasion and shooting at Fish& msanthrope Feb 2013 #7
How dare you! Wait Wut Feb 2013 #22
Well, the leading authority on F&G shennanigans is Dorner! Which is why he shot at them! So let's msanthrope Feb 2013 #35
Oh, I'm sorry, you must be incredibly confused. EOTE Feb 2013 #25
No--I'm suggesting something quite different. I'm suggesting that using Mr. Dorner's complaints msanthrope Feb 2013 #46
The OP is asking why people are so intent on shutting down discussion of Dorner's motivations. EOTE Feb 2013 #49
Yeah....I'm really tired of trying to figure out the motivations of murderers. Adam Lanza had msanthrope Feb 2013 #68
Have fun with your anti-intellectualism. EOTE Feb 2013 #70
Educating yourself??? Off a Facebook page? Let me not stand in the way of your intellectual msanthrope Feb 2013 #90
You're the one talking about Facebook, not us. EOTE Feb 2013 #93
Um theKed Feb 2013 #88
WOW iandhr Feb 2013 #109
Wow, you just showed no sympathy for his victims too! EOTE Feb 2013 #154
Maybe because he murdered innocent civilians? iandhr Feb 2013 #111
What on earth are you blabbering about? EOTE Feb 2013 #153
Good Grief. Your Posts Make the Point of the OP Rather Nicely dballance Feb 2013 #194
It isn't like that at all. Here's the difference. Threedifferentones Feb 2013 #196
Well I always wonder what makes a person go off like this. I always thought knowning southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #26
There's very little to be learned to 'help the next person' right now. He's engaged in shooting msanthrope Feb 2013 #54
I still would love to know why he snapped that he would go down to murder like that. southernyankeebelle Feb 2013 #97
And how many times did we read that he'd NEVER harm anyone he didn't have involvement with? n/t cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #60
Why do want to shut down a perfectly reasonable discussion about the injustices suffered by a spree msanthrope Feb 2013 #71
I hadn't thought about that. Here in Big Bear they can be real assholes too. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #73
We're being anti-intellectual, apparently. We're impeding the great understanding msanthrope Feb 2013 #95
And I have this burning yearning to understand his motivations... n/t cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #98
Of course. Because his motivations will prove what a tortured soul he is....nt msanthrope Feb 2013 #100
Where did you read that? EOTE Feb 2013 #74
Here's the FIRST time I read something like that... there have been many other instances. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #79
That was 5 days AFTER he had already killed two innocents. EOTE Feb 2013 #89
And one just died obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #156
I'm sure someone will tell me how fucking important it is we discuss Dorner's msanthrope Feb 2013 #162
I know -- the guy is the Unabomber obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #165
Oh, double-standards abound on this website! villager Feb 2013 #2
I can't explain the double standard, but I do feel for you. EOTE Feb 2013 #3
As the Republican Party dies more and more conservatives creep under our tent. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #56
Nailed it! AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #113
Ah well this guy posted on the internet that he is responsible. iandhr Feb 2013 #131
Yes you are right. And the Conservatives among us would say that means he rhett o rick Feb 2013 #137
I would disagree with those people. iandhr Feb 2013 #174
He will probably himself give up his right to a trial by pleading guilty. iandhr Feb 2013 #175
It's a conservative trait to instinctually side with authority and power. Marr Feb 2013 #168
Some times I think one person has several personas. zeemike Feb 2013 #133
I'm pretty much certain of it. EOTE Feb 2013 #157
Someone else here said that they are slipping in under the tent zeemike Feb 2013 #171
In my opinion, some posters have latched onto the fact that people are interested in the story DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #4
It does appear to be the case, at least re: Dorner. Thanks for noticing. ~nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #125
because it has reached the conspiracy theory stage JI7 Feb 2013 #5
I saw but didn't read an article in a Twitter post that a friend of Dorners says he is Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #11
and romney paid for college for some guy he met JI7 Feb 2013 #14
Excuse me? Are_grits_groceries Feb 2013 #21
I didn't say that it did, sheesh. It does go against any meme that he's only just a thug. Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #24
Right...it just helps you with your "LAPD are domestic terrorists" meme... zappaman Feb 2013 #29
The LAPD tortures, kills and imprisons innocent people. EOTE Feb 2013 #64
When OUR gov't does it, it's not torture, murder 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #155
zappaman works for LAPD's social media department. shcrane71 Feb 2013 #179
Nah, Zappaman just lives and works in LA zappaman Feb 2013 #180
He can be a thug. Are_grits_groceries Feb 2013 #30
Nice to see that people are willing to entertain at least a 2-dimensional character study of a man Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #45
"There is a $1,000,000 bounty out for him. What does he know that they don't want him to tell?" zappaman Feb 2013 #48
Oh, so Dorner had his trial already & been adjudicated, found guilty? I wasn't aware of this. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #13
the manifesto , the ex girlfriend's words , the shooting of the couple JI7 Feb 2013 #15
Why are you insisting that I am somehow trying to "excuse" or "justify" Dorner 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #27
Are you back to suggesting that Obama staged this? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #80
His fourth victim died while you were posting this apologia for him and starting geek tragedy Feb 2013 #163
I give up 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #172
He's dead now, so I guess you can go on pretending that there's some great mystery as geek tragedy Feb 2013 #173
NPR reported today that everyone who knew him, save an ex-girlfriend are completely shocked shcrane71 Feb 2013 #177
Holding two or more thoughts... liberalmuse Feb 2013 #8
I don't find it scary at all cali Feb 2013 #16
Wait! Wut? Are_grits_groceries Feb 2013 #19
Chief Beck isn't going to re-open the case. That's bullshit. LAPD LIE. Mayor Villaraigosa calls this Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #28
"Chief Beck isn't going to re-open the case. That's bullshit. LAPD LIE." zappaman Feb 2013 #33
Please re-read my post, because you read it wrong. liberalmuse Feb 2013 #39
nothing like making broad claims. cali Feb 2013 #9
Is this the post where you "respond" to the "double-standard" question? 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #52
From where I stand, Salem, MA had nothing Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #10
I notice that NO ONE's willing to even touch my "what's up w/ the double-standard?" issue. ~nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #38
because there is no double standard- cali Feb 2013 #43
I would take a break from DU for awhile.... Sekhmets Daughter Feb 2013 #86
I see you didn't repeat the claim that Dorner's killing spree might be a "staged event"... Skinner Feb 2013 #12
Thanks. I find that- and this op- disturbing cali Feb 2013 #17
Yes. HappyMe Feb 2013 #20
I really hear what those people have to say IF he's taken alive... n/t cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #69
I'm quickly losing my interest in continuing to participate in DU 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #23
No one ProSense Feb 2013 #31
Your truth? JuniperLea Feb 2013 #37
Everyone has their own truth. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #42
LOL "Everyone has their own truth." Que the X-Files theme... FSogol Feb 2013 #53
Ahh so you smelled the blood and came running. nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #58
No, I read your post and laughed. When the episode ended yesterday, I thought everything FSogol Feb 2013 #63
Doubling down on what exactly? 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #72
I think post #94 sums it up pretty well. FSogol Feb 2013 #99
Seems like somone rang the dinner bell... RandiFan1290 Feb 2013 #87
Right... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #65
That must be very comforting. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #132
I'm not sure where you are getting all that JuniperLea Feb 2013 #139
"I'd prefer to speak in REAL TRUTH instead of your own made up "truth." 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #147
No, there is only one truth, one set of facts obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #161
It is an idiom often used in suppport networks. But also used elsewhere. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #44
Thank you. ~nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #55
Which is really nothing but their own feelings... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #62
Blame it on Indira Gandi Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #104
That's not used in the same way... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #123
I make the little joke. I've read the book. It's on my bookshelf. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #127
Well bully for you JuniperLea Feb 2013 #129
Damn. Just... damn Number23 Feb 2013 #50
This is for you. DevonRex Feb 2013 #85
+1 obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #160
Another "anyone who disagrees with me is a troll" rant. Yawn. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2013 #18
Another troll-like "yawn" instead of substantive disagreement with the OP (nt) villager Feb 2013 #32
And another one! This thread's the gift that keeps on dumbing. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2013 #34
I didn't "yawn," but commented on yours. Though your "comments" certainly prove out the OP's villager Feb 2013 #40
Is this an "I know you are but what am I?" post? JuniperLea Feb 2013 #130
I'm not completely sure what the yawner intended, JL, though it does seem to confirm the OP villager Feb 2013 #136
I only see snark toward the OP JuniperLea Feb 2013 #138
One set of facts doesn't preclude the other, though. As in the OJ trial. villager Feb 2013 #140
That is succinct and a spot on analysis. n/t JimDandy Feb 2013 #152
Oh, that complicates things. Let's just go back to the good ol' days of shcrane71 Feb 2013 #185
At least the person who you are calling a troll doesn't plagiarize iandhr Feb 2013 #134
So you think 1) F. Scott F is the only person in the Universe to ever make that observation? 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #190
People who kill other people are a tad crazy JuniperLea Feb 2013 #36
true enough, JL cali Feb 2013 #41
Sometimes there's just no understanding the crazy JuniperLea Feb 2013 #51
"People who kill other people are a tad crazy"? Not if they kill with drones, they're not. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #119
Killing is killing JuniperLea Feb 2013 #120
Really? Are our servicemembers who have killed in wars crazy? shcrane71 Feb 2013 #181
All killing is wrong JuniperLea Feb 2013 #197
I'm pretty sure the "attack trolls" went after you for "For all we know, it's a staged event"... SidDithers Feb 2013 #47
Yeah, that's more than a tad nutty... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #57
Totally 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #66
If being banned from an InterTube community has you shaking in fear... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #67
Well, you're 39,500+ posts into DU 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #75
I've been here nearly since the beginning... JuniperLea Feb 2013 #82
If you recognize al that, why make this thread?... SidDithers Feb 2013 #77
I didn't repeat the "offending" aspect of the prior OP 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #96
You know, part of taking responsibility is to stop whining and playing victim. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #84
I edited my OP to remove "offending" text 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #108
Maybe you should just let this go. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #110
Maybe you are right 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #118
It's rather dangerous that so many people seem to find the Dorner back story shcrane71 Feb 2013 #186
Interesting commentary 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #191
You want to see an Attack? Lady Freedom Returns Feb 2013 #59
This is the "new" DU -- You can't have discussions any more. You're always under attack. gateley Feb 2013 #61
Thank you for posting this mokawanis Feb 2013 #76
Thank you. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #81
Dude, stop playing victim for your own stupid ass CT-lite post. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #78
Thanks for so studiously ignoring everything else I said 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #91
Perhaps if you stopped whining how people reacted to your literally insane post geek tragedy Feb 2013 #94
OK, I got flamed, and took the heat 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #114
They can't parse LAPD's hipocrisy. Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #83
To be perfectly honest, a good many of us come here ready to fight-- ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #92
Take that back!! randome Feb 2013 #112
. ScreamingMeemie Feb 2013 #148
methinks you exaggerate a tad ... Trajan Feb 2013 #101
Fine. You're curious. Look at the evidence. randome Feb 2013 #102
RW trolls got the memo to attack anyone who expressed the slightest concern kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #103
Actually, the OP is the one who posted something akin to rightwing nuttery. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #106
Keep on keepin' on growlin' over that bone. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #116
Well, the OP is the one who's still picking at that scab. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #117
The OP is not the only one who has been accused of supporting Dorner when they've done no such thing Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #121
The OP was again suggesting Dorner was framed even as his fourth victim was dying this geek tragedy Feb 2013 #159
Erm, one was years ago, another was days ago. joshcryer Feb 2013 #135
"At what point are we going to address police culture that created Dorner?" Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #105
Bingo! When indeed. Like I've said elsewhere on DU, 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #128
I'm always interested in the back-story. Here's something truth2power Feb 2013 #107
Wow. Now that IS spot-on. Amazingly relevant. Thanks. ~nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #124
And once that has become accepted as general practice zeemike Feb 2013 #150
Yeah, that does seem weird. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #115
Aside from the fact he's a murderer. I think the LAPD is a rolemodel for being corrupt, and Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #122
Is strikingly similar to the classic Frankenstein tale 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #126
Damn! You have a very good point...it's sort of like the Tea Party Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #142
hmm .. yah, them too. nicely put. ~nt 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #146
I really, really hate to wade into a mess like this, but here goes - haele Feb 2013 #141
Thank you so much. You say it much better than I apparently 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #151
+1 That was worth reading. Thank You. nt shcrane71 Feb 2013 #184
oh bullshit... You were not 'asking questions', you were creating conspiracies about President Obama Ohio Joe Feb 2013 #143
As I read through all these posts, a thought kept running in my mind, WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2013 #144
(That) anyone caught in #LAPD's warpath is just collateral damage should be addressed by media. Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #145
Lost me at "(it's always a male it seems)" n/t Gore1FL Feb 2013 #149
There HAD to be at least one comment on that. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #167
Whatever Gore1FL Feb 2013 #169
Yeah, everyone knows gunwomen don't deserve national news coverage. shcrane71 Feb 2013 #182
I'll take your word on that. Gore1FL Feb 2013 #192
This guy is like the Unabomber, not Robin Hood obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #158
And the LAPD resembles Hitler's SS, more than the Andy Griffith Show. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #164
Dorner is a murderer, not a folk hero obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #166
"It's not exactly hidden that the LAPD is a corrupt organization" 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #170
As much attention was given to it as has been given to others' reasons for murdering people. Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #176
The good guys with guns got the bad guys with guns and stopped the evil-doing. shcrane71 Feb 2013 #178
Where do you get off calling people trolls? CBHagman Feb 2013 #183
Squirrel!!! shcrane71 Feb 2013 #187
Many of these "opinions" consist almost entirely of wanting me to just STFU. 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #193
Here's the difference... brooklynite Feb 2013 #188
can't you people spell??? Jeffersons Ghost Feb 2013 #189
Democrats can hold two thoughts at once. Republicans -- not so much. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #195
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