General Discussion

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)

108. Has it ever occurred to you

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 04:34 AM

Feb 2013

That one need not decide, in a conflict, that one side is completely right and one side is completely wrong?

Dorner was a dangerous fugitive and there was probable cause to arrest him. Having taken captives and fires at police, the use of deadly force was warranted under relevant precedents.

That does not make it okay for the police to cheerlead or to fail to give him an opportunity to surrender. By the same token, it would not be advisable for them to give him an opportunity to escape absent surrender.

As a liberal, I don't simply look a news events, decide who is 100% right and good and who is 100% wrong and evil. Unfortunately, reality is not a morality play, and humans are imperfect.

Your assumption, that because I believe I the rule of law - including the relevant law in relation to the use of deadly force in the course of attempting to apprehend or obtain surrender of dangerous suspects - that I somehow condone behavior amounting to bloodlust, is a product of your own unfortunate and illiberal tendency toward a false dichotomy.

It is possible for both sides of a conflict to be wrong. But the simpleminded tend to believe that every conflict is one of right and wrong.

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Highlight:

Here's video of police shouting "burn that motherfucker" and "burn him out" as Dorner was trapped. [View all] RetroGamer1971 Feb 2013 OP

Commentator says "police understandably upset". WTF? A trapped rat. Surrounded. edgineered Feb 2013 #1

he was killing their family members BainsBane Feb 2013 #4

I don't think this is what he planned. He dropped his wallet near the Mexican border SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #16

Tow truck driver broke the axle. n/t cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #199

How do we know for sure? SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #371

I'll admit it was second hand, but only second hand. Channel 9's commentators cherokeeprogressive Feb 2013 #372

I don't want to think the worst of the LAPD. I want to trust that the media gets it right. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2013 #373

his whole scenario was destined BainsBane Feb 2013 #273

So if a cop kills someone else's family member, then those people have the right to do sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #366

Absolutely, a trial is far beter BainsBane Feb 2013 #369

Yeah, it's not going to go down well, is it? sibelian Feb 2013 #31

except family members who happen to be wives that are beaten by unapatriciated Feb 2013 #181

to whom specifically are you referring? arely staircase Feb 2013 #370

We who live with the LAPD every day have LONG referred to them kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #237

you do realize he was shooting at them all day BainsBane Feb 2013 #272

Vigilante justice avaistheone1 Feb 2013 #40

It's not vigilante justice BainsBane Feb 2013 #271

Where in the police manual is "burning suspects alive for revenge" listed? AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #278

You obviously have powers of clarivoyance BainsBane Feb 2013 #280

It was a replay of the LAPD and Patty Hearst/SLA in the 70's DJ13 Feb 2013 #326

Ironic, because... AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #354

an assessment BainsBane Feb 2013 #356

The guy was obviously nuts AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #359

what you mean is abuse of police power BainsBane Feb 2013 #281

Summarily is a good word... AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #355

like Monica Quan and his other victims BainsBane Feb 2013 #357

Yes AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #360

apparently not BainsBane Feb 2013 #358

youre right...it's murder.... bowens43 Feb 2013 #289

well, next time a mass murder is on the loose BainsBane Feb 2013 #291

Exactly right. apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #113

What do I think was going to happen? Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #145

Yes jberryhill Feb 2013 #149

Well, that was just silly now, wasn't it? Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #150

Are you saying aromatherapy is no good? jberryhill Feb 2013 #152

Yes, because all of those things are Le Taz Hot Feb 2013 #155

He had plenty of chances to surrender and go to trial but kept on killing people. uppityperson Feb 2013 #262

Why not make it catnip instead? After all it is California! TexasTowelie Feb 2013 #158

They could have ordered pizzas & stuff delivered to them for weeks... Amonester Feb 2013 #197

And paid rent to the owner of the cabin jberryhill Feb 2013 #198

And now must be thrilled to have their house back intact Amonester Feb 2013 #201

Insurance covers losses not rent jberryhill Feb 2013 #207

And he could have decided to burn it down himself after a while Amonester Feb 2013 #215

that was pretty good. 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #214

"If the police really did start it" jberryhill Feb 2013 #225

that was his point BainsBane Feb 2013 #284

Maybe if they'd included someone to clear his aura also. Don't know if just aromatherapy uppityperson Feb 2013 #260

Oh, right, it was California jberryhill Feb 2013 #261

This message was self-deleted by its author jberryhill Feb 2013 #151

then he should have surrendered BainsBane Feb 2013 #270

Were there solutions available that did not put police in danger, once they knew where he was? Occulus Feb 2013 #282

I don't know BainsBane Feb 2013 #283

So the police burning people alive as revenge is OK with you? AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #277

firstly, we don't know the precise events BainsBane Feb 2013 #279

OK, you win AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #361

You enjoy BainsBane Feb 2013 #362

Strawman arguments are meaningless AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #367

yes, we should all run out an burn to deaath people that piss us off...unf*cking believable... bowens43 Feb 2013 #288

did I say that? BainsBane Feb 2013 #290

Any outrage over the cop Dorner murdered moments before this happened? UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #22

Why should we be redundant in stating the obvious? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #26

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #71

Holy shit, a psychic! Marr Feb 2013 #128

Vigilante Justice is just fine with you. Until it's your turn as the one hunted. Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #171

Whose house was he in? jberryhill Feb 2013 #173

I'm not sure, and neither are any of the LEO's on scene. Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #174

Because it isn't obvious at all BainsBane Feb 2013 #285

I missed the trial. edgineered Feb 2013 #27

Silly, trials are SLOW and BORING. sibelian Feb 2013 #33

+1 edgineered Feb 2013 #42

This is disgusting, but you know he could have surrendered cali Feb 2013 #131

so burn, mutherfucker, burn.. frylock Feb 2013 #292

Not that the likes of YOU will have the guts to respond to this but cali Feb 2013 #331

i just finished reading through that thread.. frylock Feb 2013 #332

thanks. I also apologize. It's just that what you accused me of is cali Feb 2013 #333

this has been an emotional issue.. frylock Feb 2013 #334

He was shooting at them from inside that building. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #43

I missed the "stop shooting, and get a lawyer" jberryhill Feb 2013 #48

He chose the format of his trial. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #239

No one should ever be arrested until after they've gone to trial, esp not people who hurt uppityperson Feb 2013 #264

Doesn't seem to be a bit of it, and note one of our "pro gun progressives"*, Union Scribe, apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #123

This could be the rallying cry for the armed revolt UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #138

His team of splat ball players are going to take on the US Government Kolesar Feb 2013 #165

Wow retrogal Feb 2013 #2

Agree -- I understand how they feel, but we'd like to believe our police don't gateley Feb 2013 #12

Just a piece of advice bluestateguy Feb 2013 #3

I was not. RetroGamer1971 Feb 2013 #9

Of course, McVeigh was a crusader for justice too jberryhill Feb 2013 #38

Who are "these folks"? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #52

McVeigh was conveniently in a jail cell jberryhill Feb 2013 #61

So it's luck or assassination. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #70

Assassination... jberryhill Feb 2013 #81

You sound like a Freeper with that last line. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #85

How do you feel about Ruby Ridge? UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #91

As if that was some sort of mystery jberryhill Feb 2013 #98

Do you and your buddy have something to say? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #101

Right? UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #116

Yep: "Union Scribe" has long been a far right-wing voice in the Gungeon - which is saying something apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #135

I notice he didn't answer my question about Ruby Ridge. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #141

Post removed Post removed Feb 2013 #143

So now Union Scribe is a right winger?? darkangel218 Feb 2013 #148

i suspected it was a Gungeon type after blaming the Govt for Koresh JI7 Feb 2013 #160

Ha jberryhill Feb 2013 #95

Right, versus the liberal position Union Scribe Feb 2013 #97

Has it ever occurred to you jberryhill Feb 2013 #108

I have been SAYING that both sides are wrong Union Scribe Feb 2013 #114

Okay, so is there some great surprise in how this ended? jberryhill Feb 2013 #119

Surprise is not relevant. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #122

That is the inevitable result of dealing with monsters jberryhill Feb 2013 #127

On a last note, are you joking? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #132

So? jberryhill Feb 2013 #137

ummm, have you read your own posts 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #178

Yes, perhaps you might consider reading them jberryhill Feb 2013 #182

my ilk? 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #185

We don't need "an assembly line of saints", apparently we just WCLinolVir Feb 2013 #193

Thank you. I have no idea why this is such a hard point for many people to understand. Nay Feb 2013 #212

+1 This ending has done nothing to ingratiate the police to the public it serves. Live and Learn Feb 2013 #162

Well then I rejoice that both sides have satisfied themselves jberryhill Feb 2013 #125

And on that, I will have to leave you. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #130

Well... jberryhill Feb 2013 #142

you want your day in court? MichaelHarris Feb 2013 #154

WOW. Well I'm sure glad you got dichotomy and illiberal together WCLinolVir Feb 2013 #196

10 years ago they were calling me a Saddam lover RandiFan1290 Feb 2013 #169

What you said treestar Feb 2013 #336

O M G!!! darkangel218 Feb 2013 #5

They had him trapped. No need to burn him alive darkangel218 Feb 2013 #6

i am equally disgusted hopemountain Feb 2013 #96

+1 nt Live and Learn Feb 2013 #163

They didn't want him alive. Myrina Feb 2013 #187

Let's just hope the person burned alive was actually Dorner. nt Nay Feb 2013 #216

Take my LAPD-- please. Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #7

I think this is what they call "sending a message", or "setting an example" 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #8

Stupid asses are sending the message that to be a successful terrorist, avoid this example. edgineered Feb 2013 #10

if someone needs "a message" BainsBane Feb 2013 #11

No, I think this is what they call sibelian Feb 2013 #23

And what footsteps would those be? jberryhill Feb 2013 #53

Listen 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #295

In a way you are right... defacto7 Feb 2013 #72

Bring out more what? jberryhill Feb 2013 #82

Use your imagination. defacto7 Feb 2013 #86

Leftist Tim McVeighs? UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #99

hmm ... you have a point, as in unintended consequences 99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #296

They probably want pieces of his body for a memento jsr Feb 2013 #13

If possible they should have taken him alive mokawanis Feb 2013 #14

Apparently too many. I too missed the trial. edgineered Feb 2013 #15

I'm glad he's dead and don't support capital punishment TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #18

Perhaps the next time the opportunity comes around Union Scribe Feb 2013 #21

Perhaps you can change your name to "IHateCops". UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #25

How clever. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #29

Considering all they did was do what you did mythology Feb 2013 #219

I guess it would save plenty of taxpayer money if we simply executed suspected cop-killers on sight Hugabear Feb 2013 #35

He had the chance to surrender. He shot at them instead. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #47

waited him out while he continued to shoot at them??? TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #58

You know, it is possible to wait somebody out without placing lives in danger Hugabear Feb 2013 #209

You've been watching too many 60 minute COLGATE4 Feb 2013 #223

Seems pretty damned simple to me Hugabear Feb 2013 #224

For how long and to what end? onenote Feb 2013 #322

You're making a bunch of unjustified assumptions. COLGATE4 Feb 2013 #323

You got that right ! [EOM] cartach Feb 2013 #77

this is not about sympathy for me hopemountain Feb 2013 #109

+1 RetroGamer1971 Feb 2013 #184

I got this crazy attachment to the Magna Carta nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #341

+1 darkangel218 Feb 2013 #34

Is summary execution by police covered in the Constitution? Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #17

It's not a summary execution when someone is shooting at cops and they shoot back. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #51

Here's the problem I have Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #83

We definitely need more facts on what happened. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #90

Agree Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #94

That's exactly how I feel susanr516 Feb 2013 #293

Except that's not what we're talking about! Hugabear Feb 2013 #208

They used tear gas cannisters which caused the fire. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #233

I'd like to see "tear gas" canisters investigated a bit. kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #245

Meh. In this case, I don't blame them for using overwhelming force. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #267

That is not what it was treestar Feb 2013 #337

Did the women delivering newspapers surrender peacefully? Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #338

They are not trying to do a summary execution treestar Feb 2013 #363

Again, if they weren't trying to do a summary execution Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #364

Those two women were shot nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #343

Are we all clear on this? Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #19

Are we clear on this? UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #30

Yeah, because they weren't trying to kill him before that Union Scribe Feb 2013 #32

Ah, he was murdering their families. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #37

There are indeed some Tea Party sentiments in this thread Union Scribe Feb 2013 #44

True that. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #56

Yes. And if you think that's what's going on here, Union Scribe Feb 2013 #59

Your ultimate PPR here on DU is going to be a sweet thing to witness. Simply disgusting post. apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #134

yes 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #194

No, they shouldn't have set out to burn him alive. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #204

It may be missing from this thread 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #221

You're probably right. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #255

no fucking shit? frylock Feb 2013 #294

Really? 'Cause normally it's the Tea Party that advocates vigilante justice Downtown Hound Feb 2013 #335

Yeah, those fish and game wardens are some scary dudes. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #54

They are separate issues... Coyote_Tan Feb 2013 #167

And they killed innocent people in pursuit of him. cui bono Feb 2013 #39

Wounded. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #49

Criticized for? EOTE Feb 2013 #188

they should be fired for that 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #195

I agree. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #200

I didn't mean to sound adversary. 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #213

No need to apologize. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #217

Well, it's technically a gang jsr Feb 2013 #192

Here is another video from a police scanner Kurska Feb 2013 #20

Sadly, I think you're correct. nt susanr516 Feb 2013 #302

There are plenty here on DU who echo those exact sentiments Hugabear Feb 2013 #24

Heart-breaking to be reading such inhumane bullshit on DU. Things sure have changed. Mnemosyne Feb 2013 #28

+1 edgineered Feb 2013 #55

It takes too much energy to argue with people that have no compassion. It's like arguing with Mnemosyne Feb 2013 #222

Justice is not in fashion here these days. Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #274

Just like there are those who think that a guy who's been shooting at cops all day geek tragedy Feb 2013 #57

Pure fucking bullshit. Hugabear Feb 2013 #206

People are complaining because the police used burners, which are tear gas rounds. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #231

feel free to link to such sentiment.. frylock Feb 2013 #298

How did people expect the police to take down an armed, trained killer geek tragedy Feb 2013 #300

this isn't about the shooting for fuck's sake.. frylock Feb 2013 #303

Yes, some random schmuck getting SHOT AT uttered an intemperate geek tragedy Feb 2013 #306

The most fervent cop bootlickers and uniform worshippers are calling themselves liberal jsr Feb 2013 #190

word up frylock Feb 2013 #314

they're all up in here too.. frylock Feb 2013 #297

Really? We're upset by this? MrSlayer Feb 2013 #36

This thread is nuts. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #41

Yes, I expect them to be cops. Not vigilante killers. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #45

He was shooting at them. That means they get to shoot his ass. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #60

You talk like a pulp novel cop. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #64

They had the right to shoot him after he refused to surrender at shot at them instead. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #69

Are you just hitting "paste" at this point? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #75

Funny how those who have been screaming DUE PROCESS at anyone who geek tragedy Feb 2013 #80

They're all murderers. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #88

Whose voice is on that tape? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #105

Who gives a shit? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #107

Well, if it's not the voice of the person who was giving orders at the scene, it means geek tragedy Feb 2013 #115

Yes I do, based on this other video: Union Scribe Feb 2013 #118

Burners are incendiary tear gas cannisters. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #139

You're ruining the "fun." A conspiracy is the desired outcome, here, facts be damned. nt MADem Feb 2013 #159

you think it was dorner or a civilian saying that? frylock Feb 2013 #301

I think it was one of the first cops on the scene, not the person who geek tragedy Feb 2013 #308

yep. the same cop that is pulling people over for speeding.. frylock Feb 2013 #309

In other words, your argument is "fuck the police." geek tragedy Feb 2013 #313

yeah, i hate all cops, including my uncle and my cousin.. frylock Feb 2013 #315

Only because they haven't uttered something that offended geek tragedy Feb 2013 #318

What other options did they have? Not snarking but I'd like to hear what you have to say. uppityperson Feb 2013 #265

this isn't about the shooting. read the fucking header.. frylock Feb 2013 #299

Well, next time you have someone shooting at you at your workplace, geek tragedy Feb 2013 #304

i'm not a professional law enforcement officer.. frylock Feb 2013 #307

So, you're outraged that cops getting shot at used angry language geek tragedy Feb 2013 #311

burn the mutherfucker out is a far cry.. frylock Feb 2013 #312

Yeah, it's really childish whining to condemn the language of someone geek tragedy Feb 2013 #316

bbye frylock Feb 2013 #317

+1 theKed Feb 2013 #78

Gee and I thought... avaistheone1 Feb 2013 #50

Is there a constitutional right to shoot cops and at cops without geek tragedy Feb 2013 #62

Just because Dorner was a bad guy doesnt automatically make the cops the good guys davidn3600 Feb 2013 #65

No, but they had every right to shoot his ass. nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #66

They didn't just shoot back, they burned him alive. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #67

Gee, because of a YouTube you know EXACTLY what happened. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #73

You can't have it both ways. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #79

Police used flash grenades and/or tear gas. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #87

Yeah, that's how the FBI swept Waco under the rug davidn3600 Feb 2013 #89

Oy, that's militiaspeak. The Branch Davidians started that fire. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #100

That's right...bashing the police and the FBI makes me a right-winger davidn3600 Feb 2013 #110

No, repeating rightwing militia talking points on the cause c�l�bre of geek tragedy Feb 2013 #111

Like moths to the flame jberryhill Feb 2013 #121

Waaa waaa. Nt geek tragedy Feb 2013 #140

Or maybe the fire was a total coincidence! Union Scribe Feb 2013 #92

Whose voice is on your smoking gun YouTube? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #102

And a sick world it is. defacto7 Feb 2013 #63

Unscientific Shivering Jemmy Feb 2013 #176

I'm not speaking of individual animals or individual viruses, defacto7 Feb 2013 #327

"Kill my people and see what I say about you as you burn." sibelian Feb 2013 #68

+1 ellisonz Feb 2013 #76

Welcome to America. Due process is the law here. grahamhgreen Feb 2013 #103

Great way to destroy evidence. defacto7 Feb 2013 #46

This thread wouldn't be complete without the conspiracy theories. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #74

I blame Obama jberryhill Feb 2013 #93

Didn't you know? UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #104

I'm trying to figure out... jberryhill Feb 2013 #112

Wondering the same thing. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #120

he was testing the drones he plans to use on Assange and others who are speakingout JI7 Feb 2013 #146

If you live in a world where the police are corrupt 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #180

All government and police should always be questioned. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #205

Yes 2pooped2pop Feb 2013 #211

How dare you ask questions! RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #84

If there were any "evidence" there, he would not have made it plain EastTennesseeDem Feb 2013 #268

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. defacto7 Feb 2013 #330

What puts the lie to the LAPD defense is... dreamnightwind Feb 2013 #106

You will be accused of it anyway, but you're right. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #117

you give the LAPD too much credit, that was about incompetence and fear, how does shooting up JI7 Feb 2013 #124

hubris, they don't have to care uponit7771 Feb 2013 #157

OK, I thought this through a little dreamnightwind Feb 2013 #172

Don't forget, they shot up TWO wrong vehicles--one with 2 little Latinas, one with a skinny white Nay Feb 2013 #226

+ 100 n/t hopemountain Feb 2013 #136

+1 uponit7771 Feb 2013 #156

+1 And per the Los Angeles area talk shows, Live and Learn Feb 2013 #166

They wanted him dead ASAP jsr Feb 2013 #203

Sandy Hook type Conspiracy Theorists on DU JI7 Feb 2013 #126

Wait until they start using drones to make chemtrails! jberryhill Feb 2013 #147

Antecedents, Behavior, And Consequences nvme Feb 2013 #129

We really need to know what happened here marions ghost Feb 2013 #133

"Wait it out" jberryhill Feb 2013 #144

I see that. marions ghost Feb 2013 #168

Murderer? He was never convicted and never will be, now. Live and Learn Feb 2013 #164

Thats kind of a technicality in this case don't you think? marions ghost Feb 2013 #170

Not in our system of law nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #345

You can say presumed murderer marions ghost Feb 2013 #346

Why his board of Rights tdid not accept nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #347

For people not in the legal biz or law enforcement, or media marions ghost Feb 2013 #348

It's a culture thing, which accepts things without thinking. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #351

I accept very little without thinking marions ghost Feb 2013 #352

He's a murderer Shivering Jemmy Feb 2013 #177

Let me see if I understand you jberryhill Feb 2013 #183

He may remain "unconvicted" due to lack of a trial marions ghost Feb 2013 #349

You must mean presumed? Or was he convicted in a court of law nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #344

This is probably modus operandi for a County Sheriff's Dept... countryjake Feb 2013 #153

He had a chance to exit the building and surrender peacefully... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #161

Well, this wasn't the LAPD. longship Feb 2013 #191

I think shooting up trucks loosely fitting the description of his without confirmation TheKentuckian Feb 2013 #259

I'm in several minds about this OwnedByCats Feb 2013 #175

Dorner committed suicide mn9driver Feb 2013 #179

Anyone besides me see the movie "The Negotiator" ? Myrina Feb 2013 #186

Good. I'm glad he couldn't kill anymore people. cbdo2007 Feb 2013 #189

Thanks! Enjoyed it. Zax2me Feb 2013 #202

Can't have two sides to this story! I wonder why? Coyotl Feb 2013 #210

why didn't they Livluvgrow Feb 2013 #218

and these armored vehicles... jberryhill Feb 2013 #228

I am sorry Livluvgrow Feb 2013 #269

One wonders Crepuscular Feb 2013 #220

You can't surrender to a drone jberryhill Feb 2013 #227

So...... Crepuscular Feb 2013 #230

His opportunity to surrender came long before any fire started jberryhill Feb 2013 #232

Well, Crepuscular Feb 2013 #238

Recording of live scanner feed discussing 'going ahead with "the burn"... Purveyor Feb 2013 #229

When you take people hostage, carjack people, shoot at cops and kill one of them Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #234

Maybe we should just make this standard operating procedure Hugabear Feb 2013 #235

"Believed to be" armed and dangerous. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #236

Okay, so then use drone strikes whenever someone is KNOWN to be armed and dangerous Hugabear Feb 2013 #241

That suits me fine, actually. nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #242

Just curious Crepuscular Feb 2013 #240

Were you there? Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #243

No, were you? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #247

I said "maybe they did know" Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #248

and I asked "how could they?" Crepuscular Feb 2013 #252

If they were wrong? Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #254

So Crepuscular Feb 2013 #256

This is stupid. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #257

one possibility: heat imaging onenote Feb 2013 #305

Possible Crepuscular Feb 2013 #319

Is there any evidence at all to suggest that there was anyone else in the cabin? onenote Feb 2013 #324

speculative Crepuscular Feb 2013 #325

He was identified as driving the truck by the guy from whom it was carjacked and the wardens that onenote Feb 2013 #339

Would you have supported shooting down passenger airplanes on 9/11? jberryhill Feb 2013 #263

Are you equating the two? Crepuscular Feb 2013 #275

It's okay to kill civilians and children, as long as you get the bad guy Hugabear Feb 2013 #244

Yeah Crepuscular Feb 2013 #249

"PITCHFORKS!! ... We need more PITCHFORKS!!" lpbk2713 Feb 2013 #246

Well Crepuscular Feb 2013 #253

Are they 100% sure it was him? fried eggs Feb 2013 #250

Sounds like Dpm12 Feb 2013 #251

Inappropriate. liberalmuse Feb 2013 #258

Thank for saying this. Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #276

. graywarrior Feb 2013 #286

Yes. nc4bo Feb 2013 #287

indeed frylock Feb 2013 #320

Exactly. The police were at minimum, extremely reckless. backscatter712 Feb 2013 #353

Many thanks, liberalmuse. sibelian Feb 2013 #368

I'm a bit late but Very Well Said. nt Live and Learn Feb 2013 #374

What we've got is a southern style lynching bonfire wasserman Feb 2013 #266

Tradition dies hard jsr Feb 2013 #329

Not really marions ghost Feb 2013 #350

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #309

i feel the same as you.. frylock Feb 2013 #321

They wanted Dorner dead or dead. That is clear. Dead men tell no tales. Electric Monk Feb 2013 #328

Here is a new scanner thread. provided by Gawker. RetroGamer1971 Feb 2013 #340

kick Coyotl Feb 2013 #342

I don't know but damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #365