General Discussion

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)

200. I agree with Mr. ODonnell that it was a brilliant strategy by the Pres to win in 2012.

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 05:01 PM

Feb 2013

In fact I was saying the same thing in a response to you in 2011.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=54267

and maybe said it better here in early 2012: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=118604

Every right of center vote that the Pres picked up was worth double because it is a vote that the republican didnt get. The same isnt true for picking up left wing votes. And a bonus, he still got probably 85% of the left wing votes. They had nowhere to turn. Brilliant strategy for the President.

The left has been screwed. There is some hope. Not from the new conservative Democratic Party, but from organizations like moveon, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, DFA, etc. working outside the party to help elect progressives that the party has abandoned in favor of Blue Damn Dogs.

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If the cops performed vigilante justice on Dorner, so what? He had it coming. [View all] MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 OP

Absolutely, MannyGoldstein! Th1onein Feb 2013 #1

I thought we were nineteen50 Feb 2013 #213

Manny, your subject had me wondering if you needed spanked, Mnemosyne Feb 2013 #2

I came stomping in here on blood pressure overdrive AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #147

He is good! Mnemosyne Feb 2013 #168

Me too,............. kooljerk666 Feb 2013 #187

K&R. I wish I had some pithy comment but I am shocked into silence. nt riderinthestorm Feb 2013 #3

Yep. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #4

Spot on, Manny libodem Feb 2013 #5

Sad to say I have seen a few DUers with this attitude. Kalidurga Feb 2013 #6

You missed a few who got what they wanted... RevStPatrick Feb 2013 #107

You could say that DU got what it wanted, too. randome Feb 2013 #109

Thank you RevStPat. . . n/t annabanana Feb 2013 #120

Spot on. zeemike Feb 2013 #167

Good point. Kalidurga Feb 2013 #227

WTF? There are 10+ people who absolutely did NOT get what they wanted magical thyme Feb 2013 #123

Chris Dorner was a close friend of someone I know Stainless Feb 2013 #143

He murdered innocent peopel who were not LA PD! rustydog Feb 2013 #145

A bit of advice, dog Stainless Feb 2013 #161

The first two people he killed were not with the LAPD. randome Feb 2013 #162

You are misinformed Stainless Feb 2013 #163

People that merely need an intervention don't kill innocent people dbackjon Feb 2013 #176

WTF would I have done????? Zoeisright Feb 2013 #226

You need to get a grip Stainless Feb 2013 #231

I am very, very sad for *everybody* hurt by this tragedy magical thyme Feb 2013 #148

Thank you for your compassion Stainless Feb 2013 #164

he avoided hurting innocent people??? TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #214

My Post makes you sick? Stainless Feb 2013 #230

Yes the cops are not above the law Beringia Feb 2013 #7

I know, right? notadmblnd Feb 2013 #8

It seems to be the way of the Romans who watched the gladiators riverbendviewgal Feb 2013 #9

Ha! zeemike Feb 2013 #169

Yes, we can do better. RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #10

I can understand why many.. sendero Feb 2013 #93

Manny chickens are coming home to roost nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #11

He could have full access to the courts and full protection of the laws. He chose otherwise. BlueStreak Feb 2013 #12

The police wanted to kill him even before the final gunfight. Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #16

That is speculation. You are just making things up, and then criticizing others BlueStreak Feb 2013 #35

every bit as speculative as your opinion frylock Feb 2013 #41

I'm not talking about the speculation regarding the final standoff Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #45

THAT is what the criticism and concern should be focused on! marions ghost Feb 2013 #102

I agree with you on that BlueStreak Feb 2013 #121

You are right they are speculating davidpdx Feb 2013 #90

If they felt lethal force was their only choice, why aren't they saying so rocktivity Feb 2013 #134

Because that is obvious to just about everybody. Obviously lethal force was necessary BlueStreak Feb 2013 #180

If the reports of the single shot and no further activity are true rocktivity Feb 2013 #189

???????????? heaven05 Feb 2013 #192

yep heaven05 Feb 2013 #191

I doubt what the scanners picked up represents 100% of the conversation davidpdx Feb 2013 #210

?????? heaven05 Feb 2013 #190

There was no gun fight with the cops who insinerated him. Luminous Animal Feb 2013 #20

Yes, because they wouldn't let him have a clear shot. There is no obligation geek tragedy Feb 2013 #21

I don't know enough to judge whether the cops did the right thing - that's not my point. MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #28

what makes you think he could have been taken alive? BainsBane Feb 2013 #76

Because he was obviously there and the LAPD has filled him in on the case completely davidpdx Feb 2013 #91

Actually I think it's a shame he wasn't captured alive. We need to learn how folks such as snappyturtle Feb 2013 #83

while i often agree with you, i have a question for you(and others) Bodhi BloodWave Feb 2013 #103

He was no better than a hunter, oldbanjo Feb 2013 #106

It's pretty much expected, if you kill a cop caseymoz Feb 2013 #30

In a word.... defacto7 Feb 2013 #63

'Burners' is a term for 'incendiary teargas canisters'. randome Feb 2013 #105

I got that. caseymoz Feb 2013 #228

The cops put 30 bullet holes in that newspaper truck tinrobot Feb 2013 #55

That doesn't mean you need to cheer vigilantism Scootaloo Feb 2013 #78

He killed one that day, and wounded another, and was firing at the police right up until the end. MADem Feb 2013 #79

Who are the "you people" that you accuse of starting twisted threads. pennylane100 Feb 2013 #82

Bull! A Simple Game Feb 2013 #101

Yes. mn9driver Feb 2013 #151

+1 treestar Feb 2013 #196

I've participated on DU for many years. I'm sorry to say that it appears to me that the posts on ladjf Feb 2013 #13

that's what happens when you have a big tent.. frylock Feb 2013 #42

Agree ann--- Feb 2013 #178

This is real life, not Dirty Harry, vigilantism by cops is criminal and a cancer to the rule of law. DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #14

hear, hear! defacto7 Feb 2013 #64

Stop it, Manny jsr Feb 2013 #15

Amazing that people think that Dorner had a due process right to kill cops geek tragedy Feb 2013 #17

Gee I Have Read This Entire Thread HangOnKids Feb 2013 #43

"How does the constitution figure in this?" geek tragedy Feb 2013 #48

Well, well, well! "due process right to kill cops" huh? sibelian Feb 2013 #71

Well, he shot at them who they tried to arrest him, and when they used similar levels geek tragedy Feb 2013 #74

So you make shit up, then bellow about a constitution you know nothing about DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2013 #136

Where did you take Constitutional law? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #137

Straw man much? Hugabear Feb 2013 #181

Show me one where someone alleges with specificity what due process right geek tragedy Feb 2013 #183

You go first. Hugabear Feb 2013 #184

They're alleging he was deprived of his due process rights. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #186

We are nation of 2 laws: one for the upper class and one for the rest of us. neverforget Feb 2013 #18

"Never, ever, did I think I'd read that kind of thought on DU." R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #19

It's hard to figure us out. LiberalAndProud Feb 2013 #22

Good luck indicting a cop in Texas jsr Feb 2013 #25

He had it coming, fuck due process!!! Jury of peers is so vastly overated!!! Who needs "ejudication" marble falls Feb 2013 #23

One more time: Timothy Dale Johnson onenote Feb 2013 #24

That's quite a view of the law you have. Union Scribe Feb 2013 #38

in this case bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #46

The law doesn't prevent the police from using lethal force. onenote Feb 2013 #150

It isn't the same as saying, 'whenever however you feel like it - kill someone." Argue 2nd Amendment marble falls Feb 2013 #166

I'll call it an execution. defacto7 Feb 2013 #65

The hypocrisy on this web site runs deep. RC Feb 2013 #142

I certainly agree with you Manny. juajen Feb 2013 #26

War Droney Octafish Feb 2013 #27

Too many people think "Justice" = "Revenge". Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2013 #29

The cops, by definition, could not perform "vigilante justice." Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #31

And did they..."effect an arrest"? Union Scribe Feb 2013 #34

"Pretty please, Mr. Victim of Society, will you please let me cuff you?" Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #37

Are COPS citizens? defacto7 Feb 2013 #66

um bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #47

They weren't allowed to use lethal force against a gunman who geek tragedy Feb 2013 #59

I think you know better than that. Bucky Feb 2013 #50

+1 dionysus Feb 2013 #185

Repace "Dorner" with "Dykes," and you'd get run off DU. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2013 #32

K&R! Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #33

what law did the cops break? n/t bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #36

Quite a few, judging by the manifesto. Bucky Feb 2013 #40

Quite a few without any manifesto... defacto7 Feb 2013 #68

I'm going to surround your horse with pillows Bucky Feb 2013 #39

That's a big "if" - and one that doesn't apply in this case - lynne Feb 2013 #44

It's called "due process" W T F Feb 2013 #49

DURec leftstreet Feb 2013 #51

Well said Manny. I think the DEmocratic Party has been tainted by all the Republicans rhett o rick Feb 2013 #52

And the Democratic Party keeps up a steady march to the Conservative Right... bvar22 Feb 2013 #195

I agree with Mr. ODonnell that it was a brilliant strategy by the Pres to win in 2012. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #200

RedStaters and Freepers post here. Might help explain some of it. blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #53

No, but we do have Dorner supporters. I can name at least two active ones. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #60

Name those "Supporters" geek HangOnKids Feb 2013 #67

Heaven05 for one: geek tragedy Feb 2013 #69

Thanks I'm Saving This Information HangOnKids Feb 2013 #77

Last night you had 6 on your LIST RandiFan1290 Feb 2013 #87

RedStaters and Freepers post here. stonecutter357 Feb 2013 #115

You can't get him in a court of law if he will die before being captured. dkf Feb 2013 #54

And if he had been theKed Feb 2013 #112

They had him cornered... they were not about to wait for nightfall, and him to escape. that was secondwind Feb 2013 #56

I've been thinking about this quite a bit... MustBeTheBooz Feb 2013 #57

Well said Manny. beevul Feb 2013 #58

Nauseating, isn't it? I'm going back and forth with one claiming "burners" is slang for teargas. DRoseDARs Feb 2013 #61

Lots of unanswered questions here. How LibDemAlways Feb 2013 #62

Curious isn't it? defacto7 Feb 2013 #70

Manny, thank you very much magellan Feb 2013 #72

True, but it would have been so much better if they had tortured him mercilessly Zorra Feb 2013 #73

Do any of you people understand the definition of murder? geek tragedy Feb 2013 #75

the Vigilante was Dorner, who killed in cold blood, just like Zimmerman killed in cold blood graham4anything Feb 2013 #80

yeah, he does kind of remind me of Zimmerman JI7 Feb 2013 #81

This thread is such a depressing representation of what went wrong. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2013 #84

you heaven05 Feb 2013 #197

Good luck to you. The attackers here will not prevail. ancianita Feb 2013 #223

If you square up with law enforcement officers using a lethal weapon quaker bill Feb 2013 #85

"We will have turned into a third-world hellhole, a Mad Maxian dystopia" michigandem58 Feb 2013 #86

Yes. randome Feb 2013 #96

Is anybody going to investigate if Dorner's beef with the cops had any merit? tclambert Feb 2013 #88

You mean the allegations he waited 2 weeks to make? randome Feb 2013 #99

maybe he spent two weeks talking with his superior (not partner) about what happened and why. robinlynne Feb 2013 #165

Abolutely right. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #224

They wanted to take him out. UnrepentantLiberal Feb 2013 #89

I feel your disgust.... Locrian Feb 2013 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author davidpdx Feb 2013 #94

'There, but for the grace of God....' Ian Iam Feb 2013 #95

It really didn't seem to me that he gave them a lot of choice in the matter. Ganja Ninja Feb 2013 #97

You do know how many agencies were involved in this, right? randome Feb 2013 #98

I agree alarimer Feb 2013 #100

How very disappointing Manny! hootinholler Feb 2013 #104

the blood-lust is disgusting, but not surprising. KG Feb 2013 #108

I wonder too about the people under our tent Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #110

It's amazing to watch... 99Forever Feb 2013 #111

pls bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #118

Ya mean other than ... 99Forever Feb 2013 #119

um... bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #122

Both. 99Forever Feb 2013 #131

Obviously he has no idea. cartach Feb 2013 #218

What if meanit Feb 2013 #113

Our President does this maryland native Feb 2013 #114

Do you really think that there was some utopian period onenote Feb 2013 #117

Utopian Period maryland native Feb 2013 #125

I'm happy when police "violence" is used against a violent killer onenote Feb 2013 #127

Plea accepted!! maryland native Feb 2013 #129

Thanks. And I do apologize for my snark as well. It was unnecessary onenote Feb 2013 #139

There hasn't even been a utopian period when the police didn't kill *unarmed and non dangerous folks Fumesucker Feb 2013 #126

No disagreement there. onenote Feb 2013 #128

It's all part and parcel of the same mindset Fumesucker Feb 2013 #132

Suicide by cop maryland native Feb 2013 #135

You're right that it was predictable. onenote Feb 2013 #138

K & R AzDar Feb 2013 #116

First they came for the communists ..... Coyotl Feb 2013 #124

I'm pretty sure bigapple1963 Feb 2013 #133

Manny wasn't talking about this case specifically, he was talking about the sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #146

The demand for revenge is replacing the call for justice. hay rick Feb 2013 #172

I am disgusted at the lack of concern for the 3 innocent people shot with hails of cop gunfire Bluenorthwest Feb 2013 #130

I don't think I've seen anyone condoning those shootings onenote Feb 2013 #140

That bothers me, too susanr516 Feb 2013 #194

How do I love thee? tblue Feb 2013 #141

Agreed. Vigilante justice is not OK. JDPriestly Feb 2013 #144

Due process is soooo last century. n/t L0oniX Feb 2013 #149

Like the Bible sez.... Fuddnik Feb 2013 #152

Some DUers would even call you an Al Qaeda sympathizer a2liberal Feb 2013 #153

Ideally you are right. iandhr Feb 2013 #154

The problem is with the police burning him in a trap "er, like we talked about" jsr Feb 2013 #157

Maybe Dorner new thats what would happen. iandhr Feb 2013 #160

Agree 100% Taverner Feb 2013 #155

I guess DU is a big old net. Jakes Progress Feb 2013 #156

We should trust the judgment of the law enforcement commanders. The Link Feb 2013 #158

This is a very complicated situation, in my opinion, ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #159

So The Ends Justify The Means? Just Wondering n/t DallasNE Feb 2013 #171

No. I don't think that. ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #174

Just Like The Jews Had It Coming 80 Years Ago DallasNE Feb 2013 #170

We Have Become A Caeser67 Feb 2013 #173

Thank you. n/t mlevans Feb 2013 #175

America is a violent nation ann--- Feb 2013 #177

Good for you, Manny . . . another_liberal Feb 2013 #179

Are You The Same "Another_Liberal" DallasNE Feb 2013 #202

Just the same . . . another_liberal Feb 2013 #211

Bush Truly Was The Worst President Ever DallasNE Feb 2013 #225

I hope we never . . . another_liberal Feb 2013 #232

Rule of Law is the RW line, we're a union perfecting justice. Festivito Feb 2013 #182

at heaven05 Feb 2013 #188

It was your conversation on another thread that prompted my post MannyGoldstein Feb 2013 #199

Rec'd just1voice Feb 2013 #193

I applaud these remarks. limpyhobbler Feb 2013 #198

I'm not going to cry about Dorner being killed krispos42 Feb 2013 #201

Well said, Manny SemperEadem Feb 2013 #203

Thank you, Manny! struggle4progress Feb 2013 #204

The question is whether it constituted vigalante justice. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2013 #205

"Hard cases make bad law" ColesCountyDem Feb 2013 #206

We all reminisce about how cops "used to be" but we're stuck in that tv sitcom world. mountain grammy Feb 2013 #207

K&R countryjake Feb 2013 #208

Vigilante Justice = Shoot First, ask Questions Later AndyTiedye Feb 2013 #209

And there we have it nineteen50 Feb 2013 #212

justice comes in all shades of grey pasto76 Feb 2013 #215

AMEN! MissMarple Feb 2013 #216

We Live in Vigilante Times triplepoint Feb 2013 #217

A thought that's been congealing over time in my brain. DaveJ Feb 2013 #219

The authoritarian contingent always responds this way. Marr Feb 2013 #220

Wasn't that his manifesto........ Historic NY Feb 2013 #221

Laws and courts are for normal people, not animals like Dorner. hay rick Feb 2013 #222

We know how MannyGoldstein feels, but the real questions how does 3rd way Manny feel? white_wolf Feb 2013 #229