General Discussion

white_wolf

(6,257 posts)

268. You know what? You're right about something.

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 02:36 AM

Feb 2013

First of all, I apologize if I called you anything derogatory. I didn't mean too. I realize I called your actions sickening, but I wasn't trying to say you are sickening, just that I think your actions in that case were extreme. You have been polite and I am sorry if I've come across as rude. My response to your story was a bit uncalled for and for that I'm sorry. So if I came across as jerk, I'm sorry. Look, I don't have kids so maybe if I was in your shoes I would have reacted the same way, I don't know. As I have mentioned before I do feel sorry for the dad in this case, I'm more worried about the slippery slope issue that it brings up. As for the other thread I made, that I won't apologize for, because it happens all the time on DU. Threads have spinoffs.

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Father indicted:-Moments after his 2 sons were killed by the driver, the drunk was fatally shot [View all] The Straight Story Feb 2013 OP

Justifiable homicide? Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #1

Walks 150 yards each way to retrieve a gun to shoot an unconscious man? Robb Feb 2013 #2

Temporary insanity pediatricmedic Feb 2013 #8

Ditto. He lost it. Understandable. If I were on the jury....not guilty. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #166

Agree, My Opinion, Not Guilty Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #298

states have vehicular homicide statutes for this Katashi_itto Feb 2013 #260

No - it was not in self-defense ann--- Feb 2013 #82

Yes: The drunk killed by accident, the father murdered by intent. panzerfaust Feb 2013 #94

You are absolutely correct! defacto7 Feb 2013 #188

driving drunk is NOT AN ACCIDENT. pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #204

BINGO!!! theHandpuppet Feb 2013 #274

Diminished capacity is a valid defense strategy Trajan Feb 2013 #102

Interesting that it is a truism that one never knows what a jury will decide - panzerfaust Feb 2013 #109

Really? sendero Feb 2013 #120

"The man who killed his kids did so by an accident." No, the man who killed his kids Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #123

Very sad to ann--- Feb 2013 #128

Do you have kids of your own?? Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #131

No, I don't have sympathy ann--- Feb 2013 #133

I agree with you... defacto7 Feb 2013 #190

"Only in UNCIVILIZED countries does the victim's family AVENGE the death of another. Did you forget Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #191

Yep. cliffordu Feb 2013 #200

Good for you. AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #226

No wonder ann--- Feb 2013 #228

oh please! orleans Feb 2013 #246

+1 n/t Helen Reddy Feb 2013 #284

Did the shooter know MichaelHarris Feb 2013 #211

Good thing the driver wasn't diabetic. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #231

He wasn't protecting his children, he was seeking revenge and that is a crime sabrina 1 Feb 2013 #266

Tell us all about your expertise with posts on DU. cliffordu Feb 2013 #135

And, yet another ann--- Feb 2013 #141

Yes. How very very sad. cliffordu Feb 2013 #146

No, I think the ann--- Feb 2013 #229

Well, gosh. cliffordu Feb 2013 #230

Disgusting. white_wolf Feb 2013 #160

Bzzt. Nice try. cliffordu Feb 2013 #172

It doesn't matter. As has been pointed out before the guy could have had a medical condition. white_wolf Feb 2013 #176

LOL. cliffordu Feb 2013 #179

Then you and hopefully this guy would be charged with manslaughter. white_wolf Feb 2013 #181

Well. Yep you are completely right cliffordu Feb 2013 #182

and how many years have you spent in prison? defacto7 Feb 2013 #192

I did 18 months before I was 16 cliffordu Feb 2013 #198

Nothing? defacto7 Feb 2013 #201

No. You really don't. cliffordu Feb 2013 #202

OK defacto7 Feb 2013 #207

One was still alive. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #234

Well, fuck. That changes everything. cliffordu Feb 2013 #235

Who leaves their injured/dying kid to get a gun? You? Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #238

Was there enough life in the kid to actually TELL he was alive cliffordu Feb 2013 #239

Did the father (or you) have a medical degree and/or an EEG machine. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #242

LOL. cliffordu Feb 2013 #243

Perceived wrongs??? What is there to "perceive" about a doucherocket getting plastered Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #203

It's the principal of the matter. white_wolf Feb 2013 #205

The next time you are standing over the bodies of your dead children cliffordu Feb 2013 #233

Not really krispos42 Feb 2013 #157

Yes. A murder was murdered. DDs are murderers.nt Drahthaardogs Feb 2013 #145

This is true. defacto7 Feb 2013 #194

And he should have been held to that ann--- Feb 2013 #232

Really, control your anger...Serioulsy? Drahthaardogs Feb 2013 #257

I feel the same way! Debbie357 Feb 2013 #152

If the driver had lived, he would've done a long prison stretch for homicide. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #167

Maybe. cliffordu Feb 2013 #173

I really think that's a given, clifford. Drunk driving and killing people. That's a 1-2.... Honeycombe8 Feb 2013 #175

In some states. cliffordu Feb 2013 #177

That's where the justice system comes into play ann--- Feb 2013 #236

he's not a murderer CreekDog Feb 2013 #256

p.s. ann--- Feb 2013 #247

Where was Buddha, God, Allah or whatever make believe sky fairy you worship Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #255

That was a totally unnecessary attack post. nt Union Scribe Feb 2013 #265

You do realize that no one worships Buddha, right? white_wolf Feb 2013 #271

"You do realize that no one worships Buddha, right?" To which Buddha do you refer? Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #275

The person was quoting the historical Buddha. white_wolf Feb 2013 #289

I never said that the poster said any of those things, I just told them NOT to say them to me Ghost in the Machine Feb 2013 #290

If you didn't imply the poster made those arguments then what was the point in your post? white_wolf Feb 2013 #291

Grief and rage don't justify killing someone Hippo_Tron Feb 2013 #180

More likely a crime of passion AgingAmerican Feb 2013 #210

Give him 30 minutes in jail and take away his gun. Aristus Feb 2013 #3

Wow, love your twisted logic! Nt Logical Feb 2013 #15

I don't think there is anything the court can do to him Ilsa Feb 2013 #137

Neither do I. cliffordu Feb 2013 #148

How about his family, are they feeling pain? Marrah_G Feb 2013 #249

I believe that the father has as much guilt in this incident as the drunk driver. He allowed his ladjf Feb 2013 #4

Read the article. They were pushing the car back to the house. yardwork Feb 2013 #5

I read the article. 150 yards is a long, hard task that would require at least ten to fifteen ladjf Feb 2013 #6

I'm sure that the lights were on. The driver would have needed them to see. yardwork Feb 2013 #7

really? was it uphill? downhill? steady grade? snooper2 Feb 2013 #12

Yes. Things go down a bit differenty in rural America. I have spent more time than I would like Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #54

seriously? As much to blame? cali Feb 2013 #10

Yes. I was serious. It hurt me to realize that the sons died unnecessarily. The drunken driver ladjf Feb 2013 #23

What. The. Fuck? OriginalGeek Feb 2013 #25

That's true. But, had the father shown a reasonable level of prudence, the boys would not been ladjf Feb 2013 #27

I don't think he was doing anything illegal OriginalGeek Feb 2013 #29

DUI illegal, dumb, dangerous and wrong. I am not defending the drunk's role in this tragedy. ladjf Feb 2013 #33

There is a lot if this in south Texas, where there is pleny of poverty, Ilsa Feb 2013 #143

leaving a vehicle in the road may be illegal TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #273

Good post! You summarized the entire event in a thoughtful way. nt ladjf Feb 2013 #285

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA cliffordu Feb 2013 #150

Still possible that other people's negligence is involved treestar Feb 2013 #99

Just like that damn women wearing her skimpy outfit and drinking joeglow3 Feb 2013 #39

codswallop and ugly, heartless, blaming the victim shit. cali Feb 2013 #46

^^ this! ^^ LiberalAndProud Feb 2013 #134

Blame the victims. Well done. Bake Feb 2013 #47

I presumed that everyone understood that the drunken driver was guilty. But, no one seemed ladjf Feb 2013 #57

And I can't speak for the others OriginalGeek Feb 2013 #106

Running out of gas is the result of money problems in most cases Gormy Cuss Feb 2013 #59

Your ability to parse this is absolutely astounding. cliffordu Feb 2013 #149

Welcome to Vigilante Underground. hay rick Feb 2013 #156

There is nothing wrong defacto7 Feb 2013 #196

The father was clearly in the wrong. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #248

You're putting far too much blame on the father. n/t. OceanEcosystem Feb 2013 #263

In terms of degrees of blame, you may well be correct. However, I was trying to point ladjf Feb 2013 #286

He is responsible for shooting the drunk KurtNYC Feb 2013 #14

What is truly disgusting is that the father didn't tell the boys to get the hell off the road as ladjf Feb 2013 #28

Yeah, that other driver being a dead-drunk asshole had nothing to do with it. Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #43

I blame both the drunken driver and the father for endangering innocent people. ladjf Feb 2013 #51

And the father could have had the kids stand on the side of the road, and the drunk driver STILL Ikonoklast Feb 2013 #56

You're omitting an important fact Orrex Feb 2013 #122

your posts in this thread are truly and deeply disgusting. vile. cali Feb 2013 #48

To you my posts are "disgusting and vile" but if one parent who read this thread was prompted ladjf Feb 2013 #55

I agree with you opinion on safe behavior. John1956PA Feb 2013 #67

Thanks. As you might have noticed, I've been severely been "flamed" as a result of my post. ladjf Feb 2013 #69

Thank you for sticking to reason, in the face of insult. panzerfaust Feb 2013 #101

I'm astounded and saddened by you. cliffordu Feb 2013 #185

You sound like you were on the scene. cliffordu Feb 2013 #184

as much guilt? CBGLuthier Feb 2013 #19

I agree with you. timdog44 Feb 2013 #38

Too bad the father of those kids didn't have half the defacto7 Feb 2013 #197

We also don't know the speed of the drunk driver magical thyme Feb 2013 #42

"What was the reason the truck ran out of gas?" WTF does THAT have to do with ANYTHING? cleanhippie Feb 2013 #151

He at least contributed. alphafemale Feb 2013 #302

Or, had the driver survived the crash and had not been shot, he might have had grounds to sue ladjf Feb 2013 #303

I would be surprised if a concealed carry person didn't react this way fried eggs Feb 2013 #9

Jury nullification Xithras Feb 2013 #11

While being for gun control as the mother of 5 rbrnmw Feb 2013 #24

I think I'd do the same thing if my head Ilsa Feb 2013 #140

Yep. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #158

Jury nullification. I can see that happening. ManiacJoe Feb 2013 #269

I Expect I Would Vote To Acquit, Sir... The Magistrate Feb 2013 #13

Same here. I dont think any jury convicts him. nt stevenleser Feb 2013 #159

LOL, I love how vigilante justice is ok on the DU, so GOP oF us. Stupid! n-t Logical Feb 2013 #16

It's really been creeping me out. Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #20

Not a rightward lurch. Compassion and understanding of extreme anguish of the moment. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #31

So that's what they're calling it now. Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #40

How would you feel if you had just watched someone kill your children? GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #44

There was just another case last year Xithras Feb 2013 #52

totally different cases dsc Feb 2013 #72

It's a matter of time, not distance. Xithras Feb 2013 #74

It is still legally a vastly different case dsc Feb 2013 #75

I'm not talking about the law. Xithras Feb 2013 #81

So you would be OK with the brother, or father, of the murdered panzerfaust Feb 2013 #105

you are describing an accident, in the other case we are talking about a guy raping a little child JI7 Feb 2013 #169

John Gotti "disappeared" the guy who ran over his kid by accident. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #237

a) both his kids were not dead TorchTheWitch Feb 2013 #292

You obviously don't have children. Bake Feb 2013 #50

I have children, and I can't forsee myself ever going vigliante. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2013 #97

Same here. defacto7 Feb 2013 #199

The person without compassion was the drunk driver. Travis_0004 Feb 2013 #112

US states still accept a provocation defense or something like it. dairydog91 Feb 2013 #35

We are not machines. And it's not vigilantism. Xithras Feb 2013 #45

Exactly. Very well explained. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #58

I'm with you on this! ann--- Feb 2013 #83

Since he did it immediately after the event CBGLuthier Feb 2013 #17

I am very torn over this story Marrah_G Feb 2013 #18

I'm in the same boat. HappyMe Feb 2013 #22

He may not care Tien1985 Feb 2013 #277

Unimaginable grief combined with rage Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #21

+1 n/t X_Digger Feb 2013 #62

. patrice Feb 2013 #26

People shouldn't be carrying around guns gollygee Feb 2013 #30

He was not carrying a gun with him. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #32

How do you screen for stuff like this? gollygee Feb 2013 #37

He was waaay beyond "angry". GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #49

There really is no way to screen for this. surrealAmerican Feb 2013 #70

Yeah, Really RobinA Feb 2013 #36

would you feel differently about it RedstDem Feb 2013 #63

This has been said so many times here at DU gollygee Feb 2013 #68

THIS! get the red out Feb 2013 #79

agreed RedstDem Feb 2013 #117

In this specific situation, that wouldn't be true though NickB79 Feb 2013 #142

The law actually does say this might be OK. sir pball Feb 2013 #129

Wow.... defacto7 Feb 2013 #208

So if he didn't have a gun, he probably wouldn't be in jail. liberalmuse Feb 2013 #34

You think he was going to stand around and let the drunk sleep it off peacefully? dairydog91 Feb 2013 #41

My emotions might have turned to rage as soon as I saw that the car driver was drunk. John1956PA Feb 2013 #60

if that drunk driver wasnt drunk RedstDem Feb 2013 #64

How about half your family? Robb Feb 2013 #71

I'm not saying it would be a well thought out plan RedstDem Feb 2013 #115

and it happens every day, all over the world. defacto7 Feb 2013 #206

You think lack of a gun would have stopped him? GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #53

Then why did he go back for his gun? Politicalboi Feb 2013 #96

No, if he didn't have a gun sir pball Feb 2013 #130

I'm probably a piece of crap for saying this Victor_c3 Feb 2013 #61

Well get the red out Feb 2013 #77

And should go to jail! n-t Logical Feb 2013 #171

I do not condone him killing the drunk driver who killed his sons bluestateguy Feb 2013 #65

He'll get no sympathy from me. How did he know that the driver was drunk? kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #66

Kestral -- Hell Hath No Fury Feb 2013 #87

That hangman's knot is tied incorrectly. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #293

Great point!!! Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #91

Absolutely! panzerfaust Feb 2013 #108

We veterinarians are awesome, right?? kestrel91316 Feb 2013 #110

Seriously this is crazy. white_wolf Feb 2013 #161

hear, hear! defacto7 Feb 2013 #209

Yep. How many cops have beaten the shit out of "drunks" only to find out.... Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #245

I had those same thoughts Marrah_G Feb 2013 #250

Its Texas, Go Vols Feb 2013 #73

High poverty area. People can identify with having Ilsa Feb 2013 #144

yep Go Vols Feb 2013 #186

It's sad get the red out Feb 2013 #76

Were there any other children in ann--- Feb 2013 #85

I doubt they would see him as a murderer get the red out Feb 2013 #88

Vigilante justice cannot be tolerated ann--- Feb 2013 #78

I wish I were a good enough person get the red out Feb 2013 #89

classic "crime of passion", he'll get acquittal. unblock Feb 2013 #80

That is not grounds for acquittal Jersey Devil Feb 2013 #86

"...grand jurors rejected a "crime of passion" defense..." panzerfaust Feb 2013 #111

the standards and information presented to a grand jury are different from an actual trial. unblock Feb 2013 #113

I'm sorry, I can never get behind vigilante justice, no matter what the situation. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2013 #84

Grief can lead a person do extreme things. aikoaiko Feb 2013 #90

One out of twelve is all it takes to get a hung jury or a not guilty verdict FarCenter Feb 2013 #92

My Thought as Well Macoy51 Feb 2013 #297

Amazing how many people on a progressive website condone one guy being judge, jury and executioner. Nye Bevan Feb 2013 #93

he didnt murder the driver because he was drunk. RedstDem Feb 2013 #116

It doesn't matter why he did it. He still took the law into his own hands. white_wolf Feb 2013 #162

the mental state of the accused does matter JI7 Feb 2013 #164

Yeah it does and he will probably be charged with manslaughter. white_wolf Feb 2013 #170

i think what may hurt him is he did not admit to having shot the guy JI7 Feb 2013 #174

The fact that he had to walk to his house get the gun may damn this guy in the end. white_wolf Feb 2013 #178

I'd never vote guilty if I were on that jury. MrSlayer Feb 2013 #95

How did the father know the guy was drunk? Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #100

It's fairly easy to determine if someone is drunk. MrSlayer Feb 2013 #104

We have laws for a reason Cali_Democrat Feb 2013 #107

And you should never be on a jury! n-t Logical Feb 2013 #168

Why? I'd be fair. MrSlayer Feb 2013 #187

That isn't the law. white_wolf Feb 2013 #258

Jury nullification exists for a reason. MrSlayer Feb 2013 #261

Those kids should not have been pushing the truck treestar Feb 2013 #98

He will be convicted of manslaughter Trajan Feb 2013 #103

Only thing I'm questioning is why he left to get a gun? Left2Tackle Feb 2013 #114

Good, vigilante justice should never be condoned. n/t MadHound Feb 2013 #118

Except when people decide that the vigilante murderer had a really good reason Orrex Feb 2013 #119

That subject line is disingenuous Orrex Feb 2013 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author The Straight Story Feb 2013 #124

The subject line is the original with the underwritten (self deleted other post The Straight Story Feb 2013 #125

Ah! Orrex Feb 2013 #127

If a clearly drunk man killed my two sons in front of me galileoreloaded Feb 2013 #126

Yep. EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #139

How valiant. defacto7 Feb 2013 #212

Thank you get the red out Feb 2013 #227

And that is why we have gang wars Marrah_G Feb 2013 #251

Got kids? galileoreloaded Feb 2013 #262

Yup- I have 3 Marrah_G Feb 2013 #276

This is different from the man who killed the guy raping his daughter. joshcryer Feb 2013 #132

The father in the rape case didn't mean to kill jsr Feb 2013 #153

wow, this case sucks in so many ways, drinking and driving and guns JI7 Feb 2013 #136

Glad he got justice before the system let the drunk off easily on a plea bargain. nt EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #138

Diminished capacity--not a single jury on the planet will convict him of murder. geek tragedy Feb 2013 #147

He was not carrying a gun. GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #154

Which is why I would vote "Guilty" for murder obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #282

I would vote for a lesser charge, due to diminished capacity. N/T GreenStormCloud Feb 2013 #295

Sad. I don't like what the father did, but I don't blame him either. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2013 #155

i think this Guy not admitting to having shot the Guy might hurt his case JI7 Feb 2013 #163

No jury in their right mind will convict him. lonestarnot Feb 2013 #165

My verdict: Not guilty Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #183

Then I hope no one like you is on the jury. white_wolf Feb 2013 #189

I imagine the prosecution feels the same way you do Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #193

Justice would have been to call the police and had the drunk driver charged with manslaughter. white_wolf Feb 2013 #195

It's the open can of worms defacto7 Feb 2013 #213

I hear you, but it's not like this guy is hunting the streets taking out the "trash" Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #217

You were going to beat someone to death for ruining your daughter's dress? white_wolf Feb 2013 #264

You will get no argument from me on that score Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #267

You know what? You're right about something. white_wolf Feb 2013 #268

No biggie my friend, I wasn't worried either way Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #270

I don't expect you to agree with me Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #214

Where did you get that I think we should not have trials white_wolf Feb 2013 #253

In my opinion, this is justified homicide.. Captain Stern Feb 2013 #215

Seems many confuse justice with vengeance.. RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #216

and seem to confuse valiance with having courage. defacto7 Feb 2013 #218

Justice? Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #219

Do I want to sit in judgement of this dad? RedCappedBandit Feb 2013 #220

I hear you, I am glad I am not on this jury n/t Demo_Chris Feb 2013 #221

I agree with you obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #281

the drunk Niceguy1 Feb 2013 #222

Decide on Justice, Not Law Macoy51 Feb 2013 #223

"The jury’s job is not to decide the law, but to decide on justice." white_wolf Feb 2013 #259

Sorry, I Disagree Macoy51 Feb 2013 #296

The jury's job is to decide the law, period obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #280

Note the exemplary use of the passive voice in that headline JVS Feb 2013 #224

Where is the line drawn? mikeytherat Feb 2013 #225

I keep a gun in my car for such situations. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2013 #241

Anyone else remember the ending to "Witness For the Prosecution"? WinkyDink Feb 2013 #240

It's easy to see that they're both murderers... Iggo Feb 2013 #244

+1 JVS Feb 2013 #254

How sad for everyone Bettie Feb 2013 #252

Can't believe they got an indictment helveticas Feb 2013 #272

He deserves to be indicted and go to prison obamanut2012 Feb 2013 #279

Have you never been enraged? helveticas Feb 2013 #283

So rage is, in your view, is sufficient justification to commit murder Orrex Feb 2013 #294

After having read the article, a few things Lars39 Feb 2013 #278

Good luck finding a jury to convict him. TheManInTheMac Feb 2013 #287

If we banned alcohol, cars, and guns madville Feb 2013 #288

It's extremely dangerous for society to justify murder. I certainly hope he is convicted but on a Douglas Carpenter Feb 2013 #299

It looks like one of his sons was still alive when he took the time to get his gun and shoot the WhollyHeretic Feb 2013 #300

All DUers should recognize that DIMINISHED CAPACITY IS A LEGAL DEFENSE, instead of instead of AnotherMcIntosh Feb 2013 #301